Same-sex marriage grounds for firing Catholic school’s guidance counselor, appeals court says

[stevil]

I believe that as long as the woman has full knowledge of the options and the reason her doctor wants to use the one he does, then it should be completely up to her and her doctor, wouldn't you agree with that?

She should certainly be informed of the options, and obviously, once informed the choice is all hers.
But it does seem a bit weird.
We can fix X without harming Y
OR
We can fix X and remove a perfectly healthy Y.

So which will it be?

 

[stevil]

There are businesses and companies that won't hire someone with a poor credit score.

Fair enough too. Poor credit shows a low trustworthiness when it comes to money. So if the person is offering accounting advice or is offering finacial advice to customers or is handling cash or such then a poor credit score might be a threat for that job.

 

[Michie]

She should certainly be informed of the options, and obviously, once informed the choice is all hers.
But it does seem a bit weird.
We can fix X without harming Y
OR
We can fix X and remove a perfectly healthy Y.

So which will it be?

If the fallopian tube was perfectly healthy, most likely there would be no ectopic pregnancy in the first place. And the damage an ectopic can do cannot be underestimated. Doctors do not remove healthy functioning tissue and parts unless there is too much damage. I’ve been through a traumatic ectopic. Have you? Not your friends or what you heard etc. Have you been through one? The more you speak you show the less you know. Women are not automatically checked for an ectopic the early stages of pregnancy and can have a rupture before their first prenatal appointment.

 

[stevil]

I would hope that there are few Catholics that would shun LGBTQs the way you shun nuns.

I shun nuns?
I don't go around telling them they are sinners.
I have no problems with them getting married.
I would have no problems hiring one.
I would have no problems baking a cake for one
I'd have no problems renting out a Bed and Breakfast to one.

I don't like the discrimination that their organisation does. But I don't shun nuns.

Stevil, this is not really a conversation when you avoid answering so many questions. Catholic parents pay substantial money for school tuition in order to get their children educated in the Catholic faith.

That's up to them.

That means by word and by example. So that there is no misunderstanding, Catholic schools require that those employees involved in the education of their children sign an employment contract verifying they will conduct themselves according to Catholic teaching.

I think all school teachers should behave a certain way when on the job. But I think their own family life is none of the employers business.

Thus, if a man who teaches at the school pretends he is not co-habitating with a woman, while he really is, and later this becomes public knowledge, he is fired.

I don't think the CC should be asking their potential employees that question. It's none of their business.
Typically students don't even know the family arrangement of their teachers. I've never had a teacher tell me all about their personal life.
They typically teach math, english, science etc.

 

[stevil]

If the fallopian tube was perfectly healthy, most likely there would be no ectopic pregnancy in the first place. And the damage an ectopic can do cannot be underestimated. Doctors do not remove healthy functioning tissue and parts unless there is too much damage. I’ve been through a traumatic ectopic. Have you? Not your friends or what you heard etc. Have you been through one? The more you speak you show the less you know.

This isn't true.
Hospitals run by Catholic Church will not use the option to remove the embrio without removing the fallopian tube. Instead they find it more "moral" to remove the fallopian tube, because they are uncomfortable in just removing the embrio.

Do religious restrictions influence ectopic pregnancy management? A national qualitative study - PubMed

Our findings suggest that some interpretations of the Directives are precluding physicians from providing women with ectopic pregnancies with information about and access to a full range of treatment options and are resulting in practices that delay care and may expose women to unnecessary risks.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Introduction: In the United States, ectopic pregnancies are relatively common and associated with significant maternal morbidity and mortality. The Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services (the Directives) govern the provision of care in Catholic-affiliated hospitals and prohibit the provision of abortion in almost all circumstances. Although ectopic pregnancies are not viable, some Catholic ethicists have argued that the Directives preclude physicians at Catholic hospitals from managing tubal pregnancies with methods and procedures that involve "direct" action against the embryo.

Findings: Participants from three Catholic facilities reported that medical therapy with methotrexate was not offered because of their hospitals' religious affiliation. The lack of methotrexate resulted in changes in counseling and practice patterns, including managing ectopic pregnancies expectantly, providing the medication surreptitiously, and transferring patients to other facilities. Further, several physicians reported that, before initiating treatment, they were required to document nonviability through what they perceived as unnecessary paperwork, tests, and imaging studies.

Conclusion: Our findings suggest that some interpretations of the Directives are precluding physicians from providing women with ectopic pregnancies with information about and access to a full range of treatment options and are resulting in practices that delay care and may expose women to unnecessary risks.

 

[Michie]

This isn't true.
Hospitals run by Catholic Church will not use the option to remove the embrio without removing the fallopian tube. Instead they find it more "moral" to remove the fallopian tube, because they are uncomfortable in just removing the embrio.

It is true. Keep going. You ignore everything I posted in favor of your hateful and prejudiced ideology. You’ve proven it yourself.

 

[stevil]

If the fallopian tube was perfectly healthy, most likely there would be no ectopic pregnancy in the first place. And the damage an ectopic can do cannot be underestimated. Doctors do not remove healthy functioning tissue and parts unless there is too much damage. I’ve been through a traumatic ectopic. Have you? Not your friends or what you heard etc. Have you been through one? The more you speak you show the less you know. Women are not automatically checked for an ectopic the early stages of pregnancy and can have a rupture before their first prenatal appointment.

It would be interesting to know in your situation:
Did you go to a Catholic Hospital for this?
Did they provide information on the methotrexate option?
Was that a viable option given your medical condition?
Did that hospital provide that treatment if applicable?

Anyway, you don't have to answer the above questions. I really shouldn't be asking about your private medical situations.

 

[stevil]

I've always defended the LGBTQ, even on these forums, even behind the scenes! You people have no idea how much I've done for the community, and now I feel ashamed because I realize I've been fooled.

Nothing will *ever* be good enough, I see, until my Church is entirely dismantled and disintegrated... If anything, just because of it's history alone - I see that now.

Well, that's not true at all.
The Catholic Church has a really horrific past.

15 Heinous Crimes of the Catholic Church

The history of the Catholic Church is a complex narrative of faith, power, and controversy. When discussing the crimes of the Catholic Church, it's crucial to acknowledge both its spiritual influence and the dark chapters that have cast shadows over its legacy. From the heights of moral guidance...

www.ranker.com

But most people, and those complaining in this thread, complain about the present, rather than the past.

 

[BPPLEE]

It would be interesting to know in your situation:
Did you go to a Catholic Hospital for this?
Did they provide information on the methotrexate option?
Was that a viable option given your medical condition?
Did that hospital provide that treatment if applicable?

Anyway, you don't have to answer the above questions. I really shouldn't be asking about your private medical situations.

I’m sure she thanks you for your permission to not answer the questions after you already asked them. I don’t think she needs your permission by the way

 

[Michie]

It would be interesting to know in your situation:
Did you go to a Catholic Hospital for this?
Did they provide information on the methotrexate option?
Was that a viable option given your medical condition?
Did that hospital provide that treatment if applicable?

Anyway, you don't have to answer the above questions. I really shouldn't be asking about your private medical situations.

No you should but you keep ignoring this:

The Magisterium is silent on these three specific procedures. There appears to be universal acceptance of salpingectomy among ethicists. Removal of the tube indirectly causes the death of the embryo. There is less agreement on the use of methotrexate, and there are strong concerns about the moral liceity of salpingostomy, which appears to be a direct attack on the embryo. Nonetheless, in the absence of magisterial direction, the use of any of these procedures becomes a matter of conscience. In the face of the certain death of the embryo regardless of the procedure used (or not used), one may weigh what is proportionately beneficial to preserve a woman’s fertility.

 

[stevil]

You hire a tutor to teach your child math. The tutor decides to teach your kid art. You're willing to have the tutor teach math but not art. How unreasonable you are!

Are these gay or unmarried teachers, teaching art in math class?
Why didn't you say so in the first place?

 

[stevil]

No you should but you keep ignoring this:

The Magisterium is silent on these three specific procedures. There appears to be universal acceptance of salpingectomy among ethicists. Removal of the tube indirectly causes the death of the embryo. There is less agreement on the use of methotrexate, and there are strong concerns about the moral liceity of salpingostomy, which appears to be a direct attack on the embryo. Nonetheless, in the absence of magisterial direction, the use of any of these procedures becomes a matter of conscience. In the face of the certain death of the embryo regardless of the procedure used (or not used), one may weigh what is proportionately beneficial to preserve a woman’s fertility.

Sure, but in the case of the Catholic hospital you went to, did they offer the methotrexate option to you?
Did they inform you about it?

 

[Lukaris]

Well, that's not true at all.
The Catholic Church has a really horrific past.

15 Heinous Crimes of the Catholic Church

The history of the Catholic Church is a complex narrative of faith, power, and controversy. When discussing the crimes of the Catholic Church, it's crucial to acknowledge both its spiritual influence and the dark chapters that have cast shadows over its legacy. From the heights of moral guidance...

www.ranker.com

But most people, and those complaining in this thread, complain about the present, rather than the past.

Yeah like communist atheists with hardly any past show such humanity like Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Shining Path of Peru etc..

 

[Michie]

Sure, but in the case of the Catholic hospital you went to, did they offer the methotrexate option to you?
Did they inform you about it?

That’s a silly question given I told you I ruptured. I can assure you doctors that work in Catholic institutions are well aware of their options. More than you obviously are. And again, women are not screened for ectopics in the early stages unless they are lucky enough to have symptoms. Which is rare. In the office? Yep it’s an option. Nobody is going to get excommunicated or fired.

 

[stevil]

That’s a silly question given I told you I ruptured. I can assure you doctors that work in Catholic institutions are well aware of their options. More than you obviously are. And again, women are not screened for ectopics in the early stages unless they are lucky enough to have symptoms. In the office? Yep it’s an option. Nobody is going to get excommunicated or fired.

So you obviously didn't read the links I provided that show that at least some Catholic hospitals don't perform this treatment and some don't even inform the patient about the option.

 

[Michie]

So you obviously didn't read the links I provided that show that at least some Catholic hospitals don't perform this treatment and some don't even inform the patient about the option.

I read it but it was quite dated.

 

[stevil]

Yeah like communist atheists with hardly any past show such humanity like Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Shining Path of Peru etc..

I'm not going to get all offended to be reminded that some harmful dictators were atheists.
It's like saying that some people that believe the moon orbits the earth were dictators, it is no reflection of me. Atheist isn't a group. It is just a label we put onto individuals who happen to not believe in supernatural gods.

 

[stevil]

I’m sure she thanks you for your permission to not answer the questions after you already asked them. I don’t think she needs your permission by the way

Yes, correct, she didn't need my permission. I'm glad you took the time to point out the obvious.

 

[Michie]

I absolutely don’t. It’s infuriating but that’s to be expected from someone who has no experience with the situation but acts like they do.

I’m sure she thanks you for your permission to not answer the questions after you already asked them. I don’t think she needs your permission by the way

 

[Lukaris]

I'm not going to get all offended to be reminded that some harmful dictators were atheists.
It's like saying that some people that believe the moon orbits the earth were dictators, it is no reflection of me. Atheist isn't a group. It is just a label we put onto individuals who happen to not believe in supernatural gods.

It seems to be even more deficient in its ability to enlighten.