Same-sex marriage grounds for firing Catholic school’s guidance counselor, appeals court says

[KCfromNC]

Let's not act like we can discriminate against Catholicism all willy-nilly, and act like that's okay as long as it's not the other denominations.

Oh, so now discrimination against certain arbitrary groups based solely on religious beliefs is a problem? Funny how it was defended up until a particular group happens to end up on the receiving end of it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Oh, so now discrimination against certain arbitrary groups based solely on religious beliefs is a problem? Funny how it was defended up until a particular group happens to end up on the receiving end of it.

I've always defended the LGBTQ, even on these forums, even behind the scenes! You people have no idea how much I've done for the community, and now I feel ashamed because I realize I've been fooled.

Nothing will *ever* be good enough, I see, until my Church is entirely dismantled and disintegrated... If anything, just because of it's history alone - I see that now.

 

[Landon Caeli]

This seems to be a lie.

From this point forward, I am officially done backing LGBTQ. Permanently.

 

[KCfromNC]

I've always defended the LGBTQ, even on these forums, even behind the scenes! You people have no idea how much I've done for the community, and now I feel ashamed because I realize I've been fooled.

If that's true, I apologize for lumping you in with the posts supporting the court ruling and related actions by the church mentioned in the OP.

From this point forward, I am officially done backing LGBTQ. Permanently.

Oh. That was a quick about face.

But regardless, it still does seem relevant to point out how such a win does further an environment where anyone gets do whatever they want by simply claiming they believe it - which makes it unreasonable to expect others to have reasons for trying to get what they want. Not a particularly positive direction, but it does seem the direction the far right seems to want to move the country. There is bound to be collateral damage, especially as they figure out they're not the majority they think they are.

Nothing will *ever* be good enough, I see, until my Church is entirely dismantled and disintegrated... If anything, just because of it's history alone - I see that now.

Per the OP, it seems there's also some current discrimination issues for it to work through.

 

[public hermit]

From this point forward, I am officially done backing LGBTQ. Permanently.

Why? You supported the rights of another only if your own were supported? That's understandable as a very human reaction, I guess, but it doesn't seem to be grounded in anything transcendent. That makes your Catholicism seem nothing more than a partisan position, which I know it's not. Everyone should be able to pursue life, liberty, and happiness so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. We have been so endowed by our Creator. Personally, I want both theirs and mine preserved. It's not easy work to realize that for everyone, obviously, but there has to be a way. I think it will happen. Don't give up; good things are often hard to acquire

 

[Landon Caeli]

Why? You supported the rights of another only if your own were supported? That's understandable as a very human reaction, I guess, but it doesn't seem to be grounded in anything transcendent. That makes your Catholicism seem nothing more than a partisan position, which I know it's not. Everyone should be able to pursue life, liberty, and happiness so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. We have been so endowed by our Creator. Personally, I want both theirs and mine preserved. It's not easy work to realize that for everyone, obviously, but there has to be a way. I think it will happen. Don't give up; good things are often hard to acquire

Sorry, ph. The lgbtq movement has shown itself to be a force propelled by haste, extremism, and rage. Like a fireball, scorching anything in it's path. It yields to nothing, and may never know when to stop, even to the point of total self-consumption.

...I'm out.

 

[MotoToTheMax]

Sorry, ph. The lgbtq movement has shown itself to be a force propelled by haste, extremism, and rage. Like a fireball, scorching anything in it's path. It yields to nothing, and may never know when to stop, even to the point of total self-consumption.

...I'm out.

Perhaps they learned all that from certain religious groups here in the US? I mean, look how powerful and influential they've become as it is. Good for the goose thing and all.

Replace "lqbtq movement" with Christian Fundamentalists in your above statement and it rings even more true. Moreover, the LQBTQ hasn't had decades of time or countless Congress people to push for policies.

 

[Hank77]

I really think it stretches the law to assert that the 'ministerial exception' applies to guidance counselors or any other lay staff of a school.

In a Christian school, it would be especially important for a guidance counselor to have the same faith beliefs. Christian counseling includes Bible scriptures, praying together, etc.

 

[Hank77]

If they don't even bother requiring teachers and guidance counselors to be Catholic how can they be in a (religious) minisiterial role.

Do they hire secular people for these roles or do they hire Christians of different denominations as well as Catholics specifically?

The Catholic church does have lay ministerial roles (like the Eucharistic ministers that hand out communion), but you can be sure that they are all Catholics in good standing. The same would be true of religious education instructors. Your not going to find a Lutheran at the front of a class of 1st graders (or is it 2nd graders, I forget) preparing them for First Communion.

There are specific differences in faith beliefs for communion/the eucharist and first communion so it only makes sense that these must be taught by Catholics. Teaching church doctrine whatever it may be is not just head knowledge there is a facet of it that is taught from the heart, it is spiritual. It's what makes the testimony ring true and if the teacher doesn't believe it the student will likely know it.

 

[Valletta]

Or teachers in catholic schools, or counsellors in catholic schools or been allowed to adopt children from a catholic orphanage, or been married in a catholic church?

Are they embraced or shunned?

I would hope that there are few Catholics that would shun LGBTQs the way you shun nuns. Stevil, this is not really a conversation when you avoid answering so many questions. Catholic parents pay substantial money for school tuition in order to get their children educated in the Catholic faith.
That means by word and by example. So that there is no misunderstanding, Catholic schools require that those employees involved in the education of their children sign an employment contract verifying they will conduct themselves according to Catholic teaching. Thus, if a man who teaches at the school pretends he is not co-habitating with a woman, while he really is, and later this becomes public knowledge, he is fired. This is not a matter of shunning or embracing. The person was deceptive, signed a contract, and was caught in the deception. If you hire someone and they lie about the work they will be doing, say they tell you they will put on a new roof but instead decided to sweep around the house, are you shunning them if you fire them? Would you personally embrace them and pay them the full cost for labor and materials for putting on a new roof, or would you shun them?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Do they hire secular people for these roles or do they hire Christians of different denominations as well as Catholics specifically?

I have no idea. The only person I ever knew who worked as a regular teacher at a Catholic school was herself Catholic.

There are specific differences in faith beliefs for communion/the eucharist and first communion so it only makes sense that these must be taught by Catholics. Teaching church doctrine whatever it may be is not just head knowledge there is a facet of it that is taught from the heart, it is spiritual. It's what makes the testimony ring true and if the teacher doesn't believe it the student will likely know it.

 

[Pommer]

No, I don't think anyone is implying that lgbtq shouldn't be fired from Catholic organizations. Everyone still thinks they should be. Even the Nuns.

“We love and support you!”

Great!, gimme a job working next to you!

“Not a chance!”

 

[Valletta]

“We love and support you!”

Great!, gimme a job working next to you!

“Not a chance!”

You hire a tutor to teach your child math. The tutor decides to teach your kid art. You're willing to have the tutor teach math but not art. How unreasonable you are!

 

[Hank77]

I was saving this one, for just the right response.

I was going to ask if they should be forced to employ Neo-Nazis.

You beat me to the punch.

Is a neo-nazi a protected minority? Or for that matter a protection for political affiliation?

 

[Hank77]

That's not really what guidance counselers (of any kind) do. They give you tests that show that you'd be happy as a bricklayer or accountant, and help you get into college.

No that isn't what the guidance counselors that I have known were strictly delegated to. The three I've known were available to help kids who were bullied, had problems at home, etc.

 

[Hank77]

There is a big difference between people with crimiinal records or those that might be drug addicts and thus present a danger at work, vs whether a person is living as a couple in an unmarried situation. Unmarried people arent' dangerous.

There are businesses and companies that won't hire someone with a poor credit score.

 

[Landon Caeli]

“We love and support you!”

Great!, gimme a job working next to you!

“Not a chance!”

God wants those with SSA to live a life of chastity. Why should Catholic organizations hire people who openly hate God?

 

[Landon Caeli]

The only reason people can't live lives of chastity, is because they've allowed themselves to become perverted with sin.

 

[Hank77]

A doctor's professional conscience and obedience to the Hippocratic oath should then be to provide the Methotrexate treatment option, and if they refuse that then the medical and legal profession ought to make them culpable of medical malpractice.

I believe that as long as the woman has full knowledge of the options and the reason her doctor wants to use the one he does, then it should be completely up to her and her doctor, wouldn't you agree with that?

 

[Hank77]

The KKK went after Catholics and blacks.

And don't forget the Jews. The Jews even more so than Catholics.

But here's some history that isn't taught in Colorado history classes that should be...

Gano E. Senter, a politician and owner of a restaurant named Kool Kosy Kafe, sold Cyana cigars (Catholics, You Are Not Americans). He was the regional director of the Klan, while his wife Lorena headed up the woman’s auxiliary, whose main issue was to ensure that innocent white children were kept out of Catholic orphanages.

The crazy, true story of how the Church helped take down the Klan in

With the recent publication of Colorado's historic Ku Klux Clan membership ledgers, which were made public for the first time earlier this week and published by History Colorado online in their

denvercatholic.org