Public or private revelation?

[Mountainmike]

I am copying this from my other thread.
it is a subject that deserves its own discussion: I said….


“I don’t understand why people are not shouting about the science of Eucharistic miracles from the rooftops.

I accept the magisterium, but I have never understood the ambivalent attitude to modern day miracles. : it seems as if the church is trying to limit what God can say to his people since the ressurection. Why?

Such as Fatima and Eucharistic miracles are God communicating outrage at the “ indifferences , outrages and sacrilege’s” against our Lord in all the tabernacles of the world.
Our Lady said it at Fatima.
Many of the Eucharistic miracles are the result of abuse or dropping of a host.
This was very public, designed to be public not private, so that “ All might see and believe”

Eucharistic mirackes ARE a revelation,
even if the message is not new.

it’s clear popes believe it too : so why the reluctance?
I can understand why they are worried about making mistakes , but with multiple events like Eucharistic miracle science , shouldnt they Trust God more?
A bishop in buffalo ( and others too ) destroyed one even before testing!!

Thoughts please?
on the ambivalent view to what they claim is “ private revelation”

I was at Fatima today again, I did the pilgrimage of knees again.
I can’t stay away, I am drawn to it!

 

[Michie]

Copied from your other thread:

The Church is very cautious with these things. It seems it always has been. The one difference as you pointed out, is not giving these things the exposure to the public as it should. Seems in the past, once approved these things were given plenty of exposure. Attitudes have changed and much of it is within the walls of the Church. Clergy is enamored with the current culture and seem almost embarrassed by the teachings of the Church. Miracles? Even worse from my observation.

 

[Michie]

Haven’t all the Eucharistic miracles been type AB negative blood?

 

[Mountainmike]

Copied from your other thread:

The Church is very cautious with these things. It seems it always has been. The one difference as you pointed out, is not giving these things the exposure to the public as it should. Seems in the past, once approved these things were given plenty of exposure. Attitudes have changed and much of it is within the walls of the Church. Clergy is enamored with the current culture and seem almost embarrassed by the teachings of the Church. Miracles? Even worse from my observation.

It’s true.

But when a miracle is performed to draw attention to a message.

The message concerns outrage at “ outrages and sacrilege’s” to our Lord in the Eucharist
When Eucharistic miracles from outrages confirm the reality.

it was done so “ ALL “ might see and believe, not the seers!

Seems to me the church hierarchy is guilty of disobedience in NOT promoting it!!

btw .
is it in the catechism about “ no new revelation since resurrection”?
I’ve not seen it, if so where is it?

 

[Mountainmike]

Haven’t all the Eucharistic miracles been type AB negative blood?

I’m happy to talk about them. Not sure it’s the right thread!

Only three of 5 were tested for blood group. All AB. . ( one had no blood, another not enough sample left )
but all three passion cloths shroud, sudarium and less known linceul( tunic) were all AB

That’s odds of 1 in 20 to the power 6 that it happened by accident!
1 in 64 million by chance.
How did a faker who knew nothing about blood group do that??
a couple of minor blood typings match as well…

In addition to the mitichondrial( maternal) dna haplogroup pointing at holy land,
the blood of linceul shows a small recessive genetic defect called “ FMF “
which is peculiar to a group of Sephardic Jews in that local area!

For the “ techy “ stuff, read Serafinis book.

To quote einstein “ coincidence is Gods way of remaining anonymous “

 

[Michie]

It’s true.

But when a miracle is performed to draw attention to a message.

The message concerns outrage at “ outrages and sacrilege’s” to our Lord in the Eucharist
When Eucharistic miracles from outrages confirm the reality.

it was done so “ ALL “ might see and believe, not the seers!

Seems to me the church hierarchy is guilty of disobedience in NOT promoting it!!

btw .
is it in the catechism about “ no new revelation since resurrection”?
I’ve not seen it, if so where is it?

I have not found anything about no new revelations in the catechism. I know there are private revelations which we are free to embrace or not. But the obvious miracles such as Eucharistic ones that have been proven to be divine are barely given a blip in the media. Even the Church media. I think that last one I posted about that’s being investigated was in Connecticut? Not sure. I’d have to look it up. And isn’t this supposed to be the year of the Eucharist?

 

[Michie]

I’m happy to talk about them. Not sure it’s the right thread!

Only three of 5 were tested for blood group. All AB. . ( one had no blood, another not enough sample left )
but all three passion cloths shroud, sudarium and less known linceul( tunic) were all AB

That’s odds of 1 in 20 to the power 6 that it happened by accident!
1 in 64 million by chance.
How did a faker who knew nothing about blood group do that??
a couple of minor blood typings match as well…

In addition to the mitichondrial( maternal) dna haplogroup pointing at holy land,
the blood of linceul shows a small recessive genetic defect called “ FMF “
which is peculiar to a group of Sephardic Jews in that local area!

To quote einstein “ coincidence is Gods way of remaining anonymous “

What is interesting about it is it is said AB -negative the rarest blood type — only 1% of the U.S. blood donor population has type AB-negative blood. Type AB-negative blood is considered a universal plasma donor, meaning anyone can receive type AB-negative plasma.

 

[Mountainmike]

What is interesting about it is it is said AB -negative the rarest blood type — only 1% of the U.S. blood donor population has type AB-negative blood. Type AB-negative blood is considered a universal plasma donor, meaning anyone can receive type AB-negative plasma.

Be careful.
read Serafinis book. He goes into this at length.
AB is the universal recipient ( as blood) . O is the universal donor.
the oddity with AB is it cannot be inheritEd or self propagate, so it can only ever be a minor group.
The prevalence depends on region. Much more common in holy land.

There is a lot of fascinating science.
particularly the several types of antibody/ white cells found , eg leucocytes, macrophages. They show trauma and also show the heart was LIVING when sampled.
BUT…
These inflammatory cells are not generated in the heart, they travel to it when inflamed. So how did they get there without a body to make them? The bread eg at tixtla so intermingled with flesh it can never be forged.

 

[Michie]

I have not found anything about no new revelations in the catechism. I know there are private revelations which we are free to embrace or not. But the obvious miracles such as Eucharistic ones that have been proven to be divine are barely given a blip in the media. Even the Church media. I think that last one I posted about that’s being investigated was in Connecticut? Not sure. I’d have to look it up. And isn’t this supposed to be the year of the Eucharist?

Here is the latest:

Hartford Archdiocese Asks Vatican to Investigate Possible Eucharistic Miracle

Since news of the possible eucharistic miracle spread, a number of pilgrims have flocked to the church where Blessed Michael McGivney, founder of the Knights of Columbus, was once the pastor.

www.ncregister.com

 

[mourningdove~]

“I don’t understand why people are not shouting about the science of Eucharistic miracles from the rooftops.

Sadly, there are many that do not believe in the supernatural.
What a loss to their walk of faith that is ...

I wonder sometimes myself, why more persons are not very 'excited' about what happens at Mass each time ...
when bread and wine are turned into the Body and Blood of Christ?
(Is that not a miracle, also?)

 

[Mountainmike]

Sadly, there are many that do not believe in the supernatural.
What a loss to their walk of faith that is ...

I wonder sometimes myself, why more persons are not very 'excited' about what happens at Mass each time ...
when bread and wine are turned into the Body and Blood of Christ?
(Is that not a miracle, also?)

Absolutely! The mass is a miracle in itself.
The marriage supper of the Lamb. Heaven meets earth

But how many even catholics still believe in the actual body and blood?Not many!
Scientism (rather than science) has started taking over, particulary amongst the young.

Thats why I BELIEVE our Lord performed a spate of eucharistic miracles, now science is advanced enough to say
"this is impossible" if a material world.


Another fascinating comparison.
When the pope turns up in a country, millions come!
So if our Lord was advertised as coming, even more should come.
Millions to see Him, and millions to scoff at those who come, much as was true at Fatima.

But When our Lord HIMSELF does turns out in exposition, or to quote Saints Jacinta and Francisco "the hidden Jesus"
few come at all.

And even those who do, sit not kneel before Him!
Even my priest sits and not kneels.
How can that be , if they truly believed?

 

[Mountainmike]

I have not found anything about no new revelations in the catechism. I know there are private revelations which we are free to embrace or not. But the obvious miracles such as Eucharistic ones that have been proven to be divine are barely given a blip in the media. Even the Church media. I think that last one I posted about that’s being investigated was in Connecticut? Not sure. I’d have to look it up. And isn’t this supposed to be the year of the Eucharist?

It is interesting.
Entire books have been written about this as though it were cast in tablets of stone.
The late Benedict Groeschel (who sadly went of the rails a bit in old age) wrote a theological text.
But it all boiled down to the same assumption.
1/ All revelation was complete at the death of the last apostle.
2/ Anything after that is "private revelation" - you are free to believe or not - and you should take with a pinch of salt.
That is saying - all Jesus ever had to say, he said 2000 years ago.
I do not think our Lord signed up to that or said it anywhere!!!!

The problem I have with that is when OUR LORD says a miracle was performed so that "ALL should see and believe" - to draw attention to a message. Or when HE leaves scientific evidence of himself, CLEARLY intended for mass consumption.

The message may not be new. The revelation may only be a reminder of what was already revealed.
But it is a public revelation none the less.
I can imagine God is even more offended if he is treated with yet more indifference, when at Fatima He was drawing attention to just those indifferences (outrages and sacrileges) and how offended he already was!

The church backpeddles every inch of the way!!! It only ever deems "worth of belief" based on "fruits", not beyond reasonable doubt.
But the church is given the power to "bind and loose". It can make definitieve judgements. It should use the power it has!

 

[mourningdove~]

2/ Anything after that is "private revelation" - you are free to believe or not - and you should take with a pinch of salt.

I agree that we need to be spiritually "discerning" about private revelations.
Not everything that happens supernaturally is always "of God".

 

[Michie]

I really liked Fr. Groeschel.

 

[Mountainmike]

I really liked Fr. Groeschel.

As did I. And Andrew apostoli.
Between them they did a fascinating series about their experiences of mother Theresa in new york.

Benedict Had some interesting guests - eg he was first to interview Immaculee illibagiza on EWTN, although others did so later. Have you read immaculees books?

 

[Michie]

As did I. And Andrew apostoli.
Between them they did a fascinating series about their experiences of mother Theresa in new york.

Benedict Had some interesting guests - eg he was first to interview Immaculee illibagiza on EWTN, although others did so later. Have you read immaculees books?

No I have never read anything from Immaculee. I’m curious now.

 

[Mountainmike]

No I have never read anything from Immaculee. I’m curious now.

About how her faith got her through the Rwandan genocide as foretold by our Lady of Kibeho.( approved apparition)
all the books are worth a read, she’s also done many video interviews.

Start with “ left to tell” - it introduces the subjects of “ led by faith” and “ our lady of kibeho”
A story almost none has heard is “ the boy who saw Jesus”

 

[Michie]

I’ll have to research that. Thanks!

 

[Michie]

It's the greatest story never told: that of a boy who met Jesus and dared to ask Him all the questions that have consumed mankind since the dawn of time.

His name was Segatashya. He was a shepherd born into a penniless and illiterate pagan family in the most remote region of Rwanda. He never attended school, never saw a bible, and never set foot in a church. Then one summer day in 1982 while the 15-year-old was resting beneath a shade tree, Jesus Christ paid him a visit.

Jesus asked the startled young man if he'd be willing to go on a mission to remind mankind how to live a life that leads to heaven. Segatashya accepted the assignment on one condition: that Jesus answer all his questions-and all the questions of those he met on his travels-about faith, religion, the purpose of life, and the nature of heaven and hell. Jesus agreed to the boy's terms, and Segatashya set off on what would become one of the most miraculous journeys in modern history.

Although he was often accused of being a charlatan and beaten as a result, Segatashya's innocent heart and powerful spiritual wisdom quickly won over even the most cynical of critics. Soon, this teenage boy who had never learned to read or write was discussing theology with leading biblical scholars and advising pastors and priests of all denominations. He became so famous in Rwanda that the Catholic Church investigated his story.

The doctors and psychiatrists who examined Segatashya all agreed that they were witnessing a miracle. His words and simple truths converted thousands of hearts and souls wherever he went. Before his death during the 1994 Rwandan genocide, Segatashya continued his travels and conversations with Jesus for eight years, asking Him what we all want to know:

· Why were we created?
· Why must we suffer?
· Why do bad things happen to good people?
· When will the world end?
· Is there life after death?
· How do we get to Heaven?

The answers to these and many other momentous, life-changing questions are revealed in this riveting book, which is the first full account of Segatashya's remarkable life story. Written with grace, passion, and loving humor by Immaculée Ilibagiza, Segatashya's close friend and a survivor of the Rwandan holocaust herself, this truly inspirational work is certain to move you in profound ways.
No matter what your faith or religious beliefs, Segatashya's words will bring you comfort and joy, and prepare your heart for this life . . . and for life everlasting.

https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Who-Met-Jesus-Segatashya/dp/1401935826

 

[Markie Boy]

To answer why people don't get more on board with private revelations:

1. In my experience - I know a lot of Catholics that do so, and end up with their focus on these things, and the Saints - and yet don't know anything about Scripture. They are left with not much to "test" anything against, and private revelation is equal to scripture for them in function it seems.

2. Some things like Fatima, are a total mess, and even some Catholic sources will say parts of it don't line up. And how it unfolded, and all the theories around it, lend a lot of suspicion. I won't dissect it - but some of it is not compatible with Scripture.

3. Other "miracles" like the Incorruptible Saints - I have even seen a Trad website where they note how they are in temperature controlled, air tight chambers, and appear to have parts filled in with wax.

There are "issues" that cause one to pause, and rely on what we know we can trust, and test things against - Scripture.