Absolute power over others tends to produce absolute corruption.

[Xeno.of.athens]

I was thinking about how people portray God.

Some portray God as good, just completely good and loving and utterly compassionate; so he does not rule over others, he does not overrule their freedoms, he warns of what will come of a bad choice but he does not cause the bad choice nor cause the bad outcome.

Some portray God as absolutely sovereign, Just completely and utterly sovereign over everything; so he rules over all, overrules freedoms by his power and according to his will, he warns of bad outcomes that arise from bad choices and he causes the guilty to suffer the bad outcomes that their bad choices deserve.

If you have read The Lord of The Rings then you will recognise the two types of god described. One is like Eru, the other like Melkor.

 

[disciple Clint]

I was thinking about how people portray God.

Some portray God as good, just completely good and loving and utterly compassionate; so he does not rule over others, he does not overrule their freedoms, he warns of what will come of a bad choice but he does not cause the bad choice nor cause the bad outcome.

Some portray God as absolutely sovereign, Just completely and utterly sovereign over everything; so he rules over all, overrules freedoms by his power and according to his will, he warns of bad outcomes that arise from bad choices and he causes the guilty to suffer the bad outcomes that their bad choices deserve.

If you have read The Lord of The Rings then you will recognise the two types of god described. One is like Eru, the other like Melkor.

Why would those attributes be exclusive?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why would those attributes be exclusive?

I was wondering the same thing myself. My parents' power over me as a child was absolute and I assuredly never perceived them as being corrupt in the slightest manner.

 

[Petros2015]

he causes the guilty to suffer the bad outcomes that their bad choices deserve.

If someone walks away from a fire and dies in the cold, did the fire cause them to die?
Or to put it another way, if someone walks away from the Life and the Light dies in the Death and the Dark, did the Life cause them to die?

"I am the resurrection and the life"
"come, follow me"

19 And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed

I'm not so sure there's deliberate causation in play, so much as natural outcome.
If I go to war with Water, not only could I not win, I wouldn't live very long and I'd be pretty unhappy while I was alive.
So much moreso, God.

"in him we live and move and have our being"

What happens to a being when it fights the source of all that is good in it and all that sustains it?
I think He's been kind enough to warn us
It should have been obvious, but we seem to be a bit hard of hearing since the Fall.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Why would those attributes be exclusive?

Because elements in the descriptions are contradictory. consider these "does not overrule their freedoms" and "overrules freedoms by his power and according to his will"

 

[bbbbbbb]

Because elements in the descriptions are contradictory. consider these "does not overrule their freedoms" and "overrules freedoms by his power and according to his will"

Do you believe that the absolute powers that parents have over their children thereby define them, the parents, as being absolutely corrupt?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Do you believe that the absolute powers that parents have over their children thereby define them, the parents, as being absolutely corrupt?

Parental power is sometimes abused.

 

[disciple Clint]

Because elements in the descriptions are contradictory. consider these "does not overrule their freedoms" and "overrules freedoms by his power and according to his will"

God can certainly love each and everyone of us without giving us our own way in every event. God is a Father, Fathers do not allow children to do things that will injure them, after all God is in control, if He wants something to happen it will happen and if He does not want it to happen it will not happen, He does not have to disregard or limit my free will in order to accomplish His goals.

 

[disciple Clint]

Parental power is sometimes abused.

Well Good News, God Never Abuses His Power

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well Good News, God Never Abuses His Power

We're not exactly talking about God; it is the way people perceive god that is the topic. I gave two examples in the original post.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Parental power is sometimes abused.

Sometimes, perhaps, but per your statement parental power is always abused completely and absolutely because it is, by nature, complete and absolute.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sometimes, perhaps, but per your statement parental power is always abused completely and absolutely because it is, by nature, complete and absolute.

Take a moment to read the original post again. It is about how people present god to the world. It is not about God, and the statements made in posts on CF are rarely absolute.

 

[disciple Clint]

We're not exactly talking about God; it is the way people perceive god that is the topic. I gave two examples in the original post.

Oh so we are talking about people then, well in that case, yes some people have incorrect views of God.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Oh so we are talking about people then, well in that case, yes some people have incorrect views of God.

Your reply almost sounds surprised that the topic is what the original post says it is!

 

[disciple Clint]

Your reply almost sounds surprised that the topic is what the original post says it is!

frankly I was surprised that the point of the post was so simple, I was expecting more depth.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

The tactic is to portray "God" as utterly controlling to divert from the behaviour and attitude of a church boss towards the parishioners or the church institutional system to its staff and catchment population. First make it unquestioned that one may not evaluate or perspectivise anything that the minister or broadcaster says. A favourite focus is by vetoing the gifts in our lives.

Another is to use the power of media and pulpit to generally verbally sexually shame everybody including the young. Inserting themselves sexually (including verbally) = the most intimate domination. To normalise is to cause ambiguous loss of doctrine.

Promulgating morals, vs. moralising (teaching the congregation to ignore Holy Spirit strength and stop being salt and light whilst browbeating them for not being salt and light) are opposites. It being thus legitimised and sanctified, it subsequently spreads to other walks in society (by power of dominionism).

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

frankly I was surprised that the point of the post was so simple, I was expecting more depth.

Really, what is "more depth" in your opinion?