Daniel 7, Daniel 2, Revelation 13:1-2

[Tigger Boy]

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Douggg, Appreciate your response. A lot to unpack. Our understanding of these prophecies vary greatly, and I'm not under the illusion that what I share will change your thinking, but nonetheless it's interesting to understand what others believe and how they arrive at it.

ln this post I will focus on your quotes, and share my understanding of the seven heads and the ten horns of Rev.13, composite beast. To start off we both agree that the 42 months are literal, and not a symbolic day for a year as most expositor interpret it, and it does occur just before the return of Christ. While speaking of time I believe God has a law/hermeneutic as to how to translate time within apocalyptic prophecy. It is: all time prophecy being fulfilled during the operation of the Jubilee calendar, (1437 B.C-1994) is symbolic, translated day/year, otherwise it is literate time. Since Rev. 13, is a future advent and well based the close of the Jubilee calendar (1994) it is therefore literal time.

I believe to properly understand what causes this composite beast to rise up out of the sea, one needs to understand the conditions on planet earth at the time. So I will go back in Rev. earlier chapters and share what I believe prophecy reveals. I will skip over the seals and start with the trumpet judgements in Chapter 8. They start the tribulation, and were predetermined by Father at the foundation of earths creation,
as a part of the plan of salvation. Whereas Jesus began the judgement of the dead in 1844, which still is ongoing, the living who shall experience the tribulation shall bring judgement upon themselves by whom they choose to worship, The Lamb/Christ or the Lamb like beast/Satan. God will put the earth in survival mode in order that all will seriously consider their need of a savior. The trumpets are redemptive judgements in which only one third of His wrath will be poured out, and the offer of salvation remains open for 1260 days. Whereas, the seven last vile/ bowl judgements are punitive and are poured out in full measure (Rev.14:9&10) on the wicked who have chosen to worship the devil and receive his mark.

God gave to Israel, His early trustees of the gospel, a model in the form of the earthly sanctuary, on how the plan of salvation would be implemented. The sanctuary was an exact model of the heavenly, but much smaller. And all the services pointed to how God would save fallen mankind. It had two alters, the brazen alter out in the courtyard, for individuals to confess their sins, and apply the sacrificial blood on the horns of the altar, and the golden altar of incense located in the Holy Place before the veil, that separated it from the Most Holy Place. Daily, morning and evening a priest would offered a year old perfect lamb, at the brazen alter, and apply it's blood on the horns of the golden alter of incense, along with a special incense. This model demonstrates that God intercedes for mankind on two levels, Corporate and individual.

Why two levels? Within the camp of Israel, God's presence rested over the mercy seat within the Most Holy place. In His mercy toward individuals within the camp of which there were thousands, each of the twelve tribes were only allowed a certain window of time for access to the sanctuary to make personnel confession of sin and have their guilt transferred by the blood of their sacrificial offering to the brazen altar. In the meantime the "Daily" was being conducted morning and evening continually at the golden altar of incense. It was the corporate, Daily sacrifices that kept the wrath of almighty God from destroying individual who had not yet transferred their sins to the sanctuary.

On the tenth day of their seventh month, (a religious year of seven months. Similar to a nine month school year) The Day of Atonement took place. The most solemn day of the religious year. On that day, the sanctuary was cleansed of the accumulated guilt that had been transferred there by individuals. Individuals who had not transferred their sins into the sanctuary prior to the Day of Atonement were cut off from the camp. God in His love for individuals, put in place a service that would alert the people of the coming Day of Atonement/judgementTh, so nobody would be caught off guard to its approach. It was called the Feast Of Trumpets. For nine consecutive days prior to the Day Of Atonement the priest would blow trumpets morning and evening. In essence they were a warning, get ready! get ready! judgement is coming.

With this understanding in mind, please read (Rev. 8: 2-12) To understand it correctly it must be understood in a literal sense for three reasons. First: if it were symbolic, the bible must define the symbols. Example, what are people if not people? What are rivers, if not rivers? What is the sun or moon, if not the sun and moon? Second, the physical outcome of each trumpet is consistent with the trumpet judgement itself. Third, the placement of the golden altar of incense, is consistent with the earthly model, as well as the trumpet judgements which will accomplish the same purpose as the Feast of Trumpets, both, giving warning of God's coming judgement.

Let me summarize, John is shown seven angles standing before the thrown of God. He sees another angle ministering at the golden altar of incense before the thrown as well. (Remember the placement of this altar was the same in the earthly sanctuary) John then sees the ministering angle fill the censer with coals from the altar, used for burning incense, and hurled it to the earth. This act by the angle brings an end to corporate intersession for planet earth, therefore, God's redemptive wrath, will begin. So that mankind can know the timing of this event in heavens temple, God has linked literal manifestations on earth by way of, peals of thunder, rumblings, flashing of lightning and a earthquake. These manifestations will occur in the exact chronological order given, to dispute the argument that they are random acts of nature.

What John describes as hail and fire in the first trumpet, we would call a meteor shower. A huge mountain all ablaze, an asteroid, in the second trumpet. A great star blazing like a torch, a large meteorite in the third trumpet. John does not indicate what would cause the sun, moon and stars to go dark in the forth trumpet, but the following article will give us better insight.

This article was published in National Geographic, entitled, "Extinction", in its June 1989 edition. The article proposed the following scenario: "Giant meteorite strikes earth, setting the planet afire. Volcanoes erupt, tsunamis crash into the continents. The sky grows dark for months, perhaps years. Unable to cope with the catastrophic changes in climate, countless species are wiped off the face of the planet." Too, the article suggest that great fires resulting from an asteroid would destroy crops, trees and vegetation. Even worse, wind storms created by the fires would destroy buildings hundreds of miles from the impact. Dust and smoke from the fires would find their way into the jet stream and block much of the Sun's light, thus altering the world's climate and chances of human survival.

This scenario would seem unbelievable for most individuals to ever affect the earth, but if you correctly understand the trumpet judgements you know its only a matter of time. God not only informs us of His coming judgements He also informs us of mans response. That response is revealed in the composite beast rising up out of the sea [peoples, multitudes, nations, languages, Rev.17:15] a global response.

What do the seven heads on the composite beast represent? In Rev. 13:1 we find they have blasphemous names written on them. This indicates they are religious in nature and they are anti-christ. Second, we know that one head was wounded, but the deadly wound was healed when the composite beast comes up from the sea. The head that was wounded is the papacy. There are seven heads, that is, there are seven of the same thing. Because the wounded/healed head represents a religious system (the papacy), the remaining six heads must also represent religious systems.

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Rev. 17:9, says , …The seven heads are seven mountains…

The seven heads can be described as seven mountains because a mountain is changeless, unmovable, and steadfast like God. A religious system can be compared to a mountain because people look up to their religious leaders much like ancient travelers looked up to the mountains for navigation. People want their religion to be changeless, unmovable and steadfast (that is, infallible, true and towering above all others) like a mountain.

Rev.17:10, says, And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

They are also seven kings. Each religious system is a kingdom having subjects (church members). Each religious system has its own order and authority. When a church member rebels against the system, he may be cast out of the system, excommunicated or killed depending upon the religious system that he belongs to. The seven heads are described as seven mountains and seven kings because these definitions narrow the solution to one right answer. Each blasphemous head/mountain/king is a religious system having its own hierarchy and laws.” The angel continued, “Five religious systems have fallen (have been exposed as false) and one religious system exists which has not yet become false. Later on, it will also be exposed as false and another religious system will appear, but it will only exist for a short time.”

When Jesus came to Earth, five religious systems fell. In other words, Jesus declared five religious systems were false. These five systems are: Atheism, Heathenism, Judaism, Eastern Mysticism, and Islam. Atheism says there is no God. Jesus says this is not true. Heathenism says there are many Gods, but Jesus says this is not true. Judaism and Islam teach that salvation comes through obedience to specific rules, but Jesus says that salvation comes through faith in Him. Eastern Mysticism teaches that the soul is immortal, it lives forever. After enough generations, man can become a divine being, but Jesus says none of this is true. Rather, a divine being became a man to save mankind from the penalty for sin.

The sixth head (Christianity) was just beginning in John’s day. Eventually, this head was called the Roman Catholic Church. John was a charter member of this religious system, but it followed in Israel’s footsteps. It became a false religion and blas- phemous over time. The power of the Roman Catholic Church was severely wounded in 1798, but the deadly wound will be healed during the fourth trumpet. The seventh head appeared on Earth around 1500 A.D. and it is called Protestantism. When we consider that six of the seven religious systems have endured for 2,000 years or more, the life span of Protestantism is short.

Rev. 17:11-13 says, And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and is of the seven [heads] and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; [at the time John was show this vision] but receive power as kings one hour [short period of time] with the beast…

Lucifer is the lamblike beast described in Revelation 13:11. He once was visible and now, he is not visible, but at the fifth trumpet he will become visible. At first, the devil will masquerade as Almighty God. He will be far superior to the seven religious systems of the world and his supernatural powers will eclipse the prowess of all mankind and naturally, he will become “an eighth king.”

The devil is described as an eighth king who belongs to the seven heads for an important reason. In Dan 7, a little horn appeared and it grew in power and as it did, it uprooted three of the original ten horns. This made the little horn an eighth king. The eighth horn dominated the seven horns for 1,260 years. Similarly, the devil will start small. He will physically appear and dominate the seven heads. During the sixth trumpet, the devil will establish an eighth religious system (the harlot, his great theocracy) and he will rule over the religious systems of the world. Of course, the devil will be destroyed at the end, but not by human power.

The ten horns on the composite beast represent ten kings (the ten toes in Daniel 2) which Lucifer will appoint as agents of his government. Presuming sovereign authority, the devil will dissolve the governments of the world and direct these ten kings to oversee his one world church state. These ten kings will have one purpose. They will do everything the devil wishes.

When Jesus appears in clouds of glory, these ten kings will unite with the devil in a violent attack on the Lamb, but the Lamb will destroy them because the Creator is Lord of lords and King of kings. (Battle of Armageddon, Rev.16:16-21)

 

[Marilyn C]

The Daniel 7 dream that Daniel had, and the Daniel 2 dream that Nebuchadnezzar had, and the Revelation 13:1-2 composite description of the beast coming out of the sea, John was shown - all match.

Babylonian empire
Medes-Persian empire
Greek empire
Roman empire

The EU is the Roman empire materialized in the end times. The EEC (European Economic Community) that became the EU (European Union) was founded by the 1957 treaty of Rome.

The ten kings and the Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 little horn will come out of the EU.

So, douggg, the EU is more terrifying than Islam?

 

[Douggg]

What do the seven heads on the composite beast represent? In Rev. 13:1 we find they have blasphemous names written on them. This indicates they are religious in nature and they are anti-christ. Second, we know that one head was wounded, but the deadly wound was healed when the composite beast comes up from the sea. The head that was wounded is the papacy. There are seven heads, that is, there are seven of the same thing. Because the wounded/healed head represents a religious system (the papacy), the remaining six heads must also represent religious systems.

Since you mentioned the ongoing judgement since 1844, I assume you are SDA and reflected the SDA viewpoint.

The seven heads were also the scarlet-colored beast in Revelation 17. Revelation 17 is time-stamped the first century, because king 6 was ruling at time.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Since five of the seven kings had already fallen, at the time of the first century - we can deduce that the seven heads are not speaking about the papacy - since the papacy did not exist in the first century.

The name of blasphemy on the seven heads is the claim of being god. Julius Caesar claimed to be god and started the dynasty of the Julio-Claudians. I think that the tradition of that Julius Caesar started continued with the other Caesars.

 

[Douggg]

They are also seven kings. Each religious system is a kingdom having subjects (church members)

The think that the kings are political leaders. I don't see any indication from the text that they are religious systems.

I do think that the ten kings (EU leaders) at the time of the beast king (dictator of the EU) will burn the Vatican to the ground.

 

[Douggg]

So, douggg, the EU is more terrifying than Islam?

Well, in Islam it is against their religion to worship a man who claims to be God. So we can eliminate Islam as being the kingdom of the beast king who will be worshiped.

I don't think the EU in its current form is more terrifying than Islam. Then again, Germany under Adolph Hitler annihilated 6 million Jews.

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, in Islam it is against their religion to worship a man who claims to be God. So we can eliminate Islam as being the kingdom of the beast king who will be worshiped.

I don't think the EU in its current form is more terrifying than Islam. Then again, Germany under Adolph Hitler annihilated 6 million Jews.

Remember the religion is done away with, (Rev. 17: 16) and as the A/C seemed to rise from the dead, that will clinch it for many people.

So, is the EU killing Christians like Islam is doing in different parts of the world - Afghanistan, Africa, etc?

 

[Truth7t7]

Well, in Islam it is against their religion to worship a man who claims to be God.

Islam worships Mohammed, just as Catholics worship the Pope, who you kidding

 

[Douggg]

Islam worships Mohammed, just as Catholics worship the Pope, who you kidding

No, they don't. To them, Mohammed is a prophet of their god Allah. Saying Mohammed is not - could get a person killed in Muslim countries - which they are fanatics over Mohammed, I will agree with that much. And that their religion is Satanic - one of the harlots of Mystery Babylon the Great.

 

[Douggg]

So, is the EU killing Christians like Islam is doing in different parts of the world - Afghanistan, Africa, etc?

Not in present form, because the beast king is not in power..

Remember the religion is done away with, (Rev. 17: 16) as the A/C seemed to rise from the dead, that will clinch it for many people.

The woman sits in Rome. Rome is not the home base for Islam, which is Mecca, Saudi Arabia where their annual hajj takes place.

It will be the Vatican, that ten kings will burn to the ground in Revelation 17:16.

I don't understand your comment of why "and as the A/C seemed to rise from the dead, that will clinch it for many people." ?

 

[Truth7t7]

The woman sits in Rome.

"False"

(Jerusalem) Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified
(Revelation) 17:18AKJV
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

 

[Douggg]

(Jerusalem) Is The harlot, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Jersualem does not get destroyed, but will be the city of the Great King, the Lord of Hosts, in Zechariah 14. So that eliminates Jerusalem as Babylon the Great.
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Revelation 17 is the great overview chapter, that sheds light on the visions shown to John, in Revelation 12 and 13... which both have the seven heads and ten horns in them. Without Revelation 17, we do not know that the seven heads are seven kings, and the ten horns are ten kings.

The inscription on the woman turned harlot's head is not that she herself was Mystery, Babylon the Great, but one of the harlots of her mother.

The inscription is actually asking the viewer or reader the question, who is Babylon the Great ?

In Revelation 12:7-9, Satan and his angels are cast down to earth. Their kingdom is Babylon the Great.

In Revelation 18: Babylon is fallen is, is fallen.

In Revelation 9: 1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

The star fall from heaven is Satan, the king of Babylon the Great, the mystical kingdom of Satan and his angels.

God is not intent on destroying Jerusalem. In Zechariah 14, God brings all nations against Jerusalem, not to fulfill judgment on Jerusalem, but on the nations intent on destroying Jerusalem.

The kings of the nations of the earth will be moved to do so by the beast king, the false prophet, and the dragon, Satan... and seducing spirits of Babylon the Great.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

God is intent on destroying Satan and his angels mystical kingdom of Babylon the Great.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jersualem does not get destroyed, but will be the city of the Great King, the Lord of Hosts, in Zechariah 14. So that eliminates Jerusalem as Babylon the Great.

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom Seen, "After" The Day Of The Lord

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Douggg]

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom Seen, "After" The Day Of The Lord

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

No, it is not. Zechariah 14:5 is Jesus's return at the end of the 7 years coming with his saints.

God is not judging Jerusalem in Zechariah 14. Your thinking that Jerusalem is Mystery, Babylon the Great, and is the woman turned harlot are both wrong.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, it is not. Zechariah 14:5 is Jesus's return at the end of the 7 years coming with his saints.

God is not judging Jerusalem in Zechariah 14. Your thinking that Jerusalem is Mystery, Babylon the Great, and is the woman turned harlot are both wrong.

Zechariah 14:1 shows the day of the Lord, the very same day of the Lord seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 when this earth is dissolved by the Lord's fire (The End)

Zechariah 14:12 shows the detailed description of the Lord's fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet (The End)

 

[Douggg]

Zechariah 14:1 shows the day of the Lord, the very same day of the Lord seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 when this earth is dissolved by the Lord's fire (The End)

Zechariah 14:12 shows the detailed description of the Lord's fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet (The End)

Zechariah 14:12 only applies to them who attack Jerusalem.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.


Differently, 2Peter3:10-13 is referring this whole earth is going to be destroyed, right before the Great White Throne Judgement - Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Everything of physical wealth on this present earth will be burnt up at that time as well.

The Day of the Lord is eternal and never-ending. It begins when the Antichrist goes into the temple sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood - an unexpected shocking event. Thus beginning like a thief in the night.

The destruction of this present this present earth is "within" the eternal everlasting Day of Lord. Now look at this... I am going to highlight something for you... that shows that "within".

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,


I am going to include this timeline chart for you that shows the eternal Day of the Lord... it extends into eternity, never-ending.

 

[Timtofly]

The Daniel 7 dream that Daniel had, and the Daniel 2 dream that Nebuchadnezzar had, and the Revelation 13:1-2 composite description of the beast coming out of the sea, John was shown - all match.

Babylonian empire
Medes-Persian empire
Greek empire
Roman empire

The EU is the Roman empire materialized in the end times. The EEC (European Economic Community) that became the EU (European Union) was founded by the 1957 treaty of Rome.

The ten kings and the Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 little horn will come out of the EU.

I don't think that works out. At the Second Coming, 5 were already fallen, meaning even the 10 toes were no longer an empire. Rome was the 5th. The Holy Roman Empire was demolished with the rise of the Reformation.

The stone cut out does represent the church that started at the Cross. While the RCC "controlled" the Holy Roman Empire it was in opposition to the church that became the mountain we see today. It was not a Protestant movement, but that percentage of the church coming out of the authority of the Holy Roman Empire helped end the ten toe kingdom. The Reformation was the end of Daniel 2. All 5 kingdoms mortally out of the picture. We are in the 6th kingdom, but the Second Coming will deal a deadly wound to all governments.

Who or what that kingdom represents won't be realized until after the 6th Seal, Second Coming of Jesus. That is when Satan will attempt to bring life into this kingdom so all will marvel, especially since all mountains and continents will be moved both literally and governmentally. There will no longer be nations divided by continents, nor mountains after the 6th Seal. All the works of man will be burned up. That is the deadly wound.

As for Daniel 7, verse 9 would be the Second Coming and the change to heaven and earth per 2 Peter 3. All kingdoms will disappear as we know them today. Now people of ethnicity will be in proximity to themselves but with new neighbors, and in a complete redistribution of land area. The middle east will be about all that will look the same as today. Now all may disagree, but no one seems to grasp the severity of the Second Coming, the 6th Seal. In fact Amil have given up, and have declared no one could survive that ordeal.


Also this kingdom will have 10 kings or men who will attempt to make their own name, by aligning with Satan.

Daniel 7:12 should explain how the 6th Seal will effect the world.

"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

Human governments we see today will be over at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal. And humans will remain alive on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders.

Now the explanation followup:

"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

These beast represent people alive after the 4th beast is punished and destroyed.

"I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

Since all these kingdoms are part of the 6th kingdom itself, not sure how you can apply them to after the Second Coming. Perhaps this last beast could be Rome back in the first century, but that destroys any interpretation stating it will happen in the future. I realize that many want to compare these 4 beasts to England, the US, Russia, and perhaps Islam. It is a pretty vague dream to figure out. Islam may have changed several types of Governments, Indonesia, Pakistan, and parts of Africa, but none of those were ever world leaders in their own right. Islam has killed thousands if not tens of thousands of the redeemed church.

But you will not find your future human leader as the little horn, because Islam if the 4th beast, will be the blunt of those removed at the Second Coming. Especially if you apply this 4th beast and it's 10 nation coalition destroyed in Zechariah 14 coming against Jerusalem at the 6th Seal, the Second Coming event.

The Second Coming is the event when authority is being removed from humankind and given to the saints.

"But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever."

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

"And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

Satan and his 10 king kingdoms won't even materialize until the 7th Trumpet has sounded. Satan takes over the throne Jesus set up at the Second Coming. Satan is not the 4th Kingdom. Neither are these 4 beast in Daniel 7, part of any beast in Revelation. We are in the 6th head of Revelation's dragon beast. These 4 beast are just a subset of the soon to be defunct 6th head or human government that will be dealt a mortal wound with the Second Coming at the 6th Seal.


That is why Revelation 19 cannot be the Second Coming. No one is alive in Adam's dead corruptible flesh after Armageddon. Humans are judged and still alive between the Second Coming and the battle of Armageddon. The Trumpets and Thunders will be the struggle between Jesus and His Kingdom and the revival of the 6th kingdom as short lived as it may be. Satan will be an 8th Kingdom after the 7th Trumpet sounds. It is the 8th kingdom, that points to Jesus and the 7th kingdom being put on hold until the battle of Armageddon, 42 months later.

 

[Douggg]

I don't think that works out. At the Second Coming, 5 were already fallen, meaning even the 10 toes were no longer an empire. Rome was the 5th. The Holy Roman Empire was demolished with the rise of the Reformation.

Tim, if you get out of the mind-set you have made for yourself that the seven kings are seven kingdoms - and just go with what is in the text instead, that they are kings - then everything works out.

The ten kings are ten kings of one kingdom - which they will hand over to the beast king to be dictator of it. In Revelation 17:17.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

 

[Valletta]

I don't think that works out. At the Second Coming, 5 were already fallen, meaning even the 10 toes were no longer an empire. Rome was the 5th. The Holy Roman Empire was demolished with the rise of the Reformation.

The stone cut out does represent the church that started at the Cross. While the RCC "controlled" the Holy Roman Empire it was in opposition to the church that became the mountain we see today. It was not a Protestant movement, but that percentage of the church coming out of the authority of the Holy Roman Empire helped end the ten toe kingdom. The Reformation was the end of Daniel 2. All 5 kingdoms mortally out of the picture. We are in the 6th kingdom, but the Second Coming will deal a deadly wound to all governments.

Who or what that kingdom represents won't be realized until after the 6th Seal, Second Coming of Jesus. That is when Satan will attempt to bring life into this kingdom so all will marvel, especially since all mountains and continents will be moved both literally and governmentally. There will no longer be nations divided by continents, nor mountains after the 6th Seal. All the works of man will be burned up. That is the deadly wound.

As for Daniel 7, verse 9 would be the Second Coming and the change to heaven and earth per 2 Peter 3. All kingdoms will disappear as we know them today. Now people of ethnicity will be in proximity to themselves but with new neighbors, and in a complete redistribution of land area. The middle east will be about all that will look the same as today. Now all may disagree, but no one seems to grasp the severity of the Second Coming, the 6th Seal. In fact Amil have given up, and have declared no one could survive that ordeal.


Also this kingdom will have 10 kings or men who will attempt to make their own name, by aligning with Satan.

Daniel 7:12 should explain how the 6th Seal will effect the world.

"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

Human governments we see today will be over at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal. And humans will remain alive on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders.

Now the explanation followup:

"Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

These beast represent people alive after the 4th beast is punished and destroyed.

"I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time."

Since all these kingdoms are part of the 6th kingdom itself, not sure how you can apply them to after the Second Coming. Perhaps this last beast could be Rome back in the first century, but that destroys any interpretation stating it will happen in the future. I realize that many want to compare these 4 beasts to England, the US, Russia, and perhaps Islam. It is a pretty vague dream to figure out. Islam may have changed several types of Governments, Indonesia, Pakistan, and parts of Africa, but none of those were ever world leaders in their own right. Islam has killed thousands if not tens of thousands of the redeemed church.

But you will not find your future human leader as the little horn, because Islam if the 4th beast, will be the blunt of those removed at the Second Coming. Especially if you apply this 4th beast and it's 10 nation coalition destroyed in Zechariah 14 coming against Jerusalem at the 6th Seal, the Second Coming event.

The Second Coming is the event when authority is being removed from humankind and given to the saints.

"But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever."

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

"And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

Satan and his 10 king kingdoms won't even materialize until the 7th Trumpet has sounded. Satan takes over the throne Jesus set up at the Second Coming. Satan is not the 4th Kingdom. Neither are these 4 beast in Daniel 7, part of any beast in Revelation. We are in the 6th head of Revelation's dragon beast. These 4 beast are just a subset of the soon to be defunct 6th head or human government that will be dealt a mortal wound with the Second Coming at the 6th Seal.


That is why Revelation 19 cannot be the Second Coming. No one is alive in Adam's dead corruptible flesh after Armageddon. Humans are judged and still alive between the Second Coming and the battle of Armageddon. The Trumpets and Thunders will be the struggle between Jesus and His Kingdom and the revival of the 6th kingdom as short lived as it may be. Satan will be an 8th Kingdom after the 7th Trumpet sounds. It is the 8th kingdom, that points to Jesus and the 7th kingdom being put on hold until the battle of Armageddon, 42 months later.

The Roman Empire was never holy. The Roman Empire murdered many many Catholics.

 

[anetazo]

The ten kings of revelation are fallen angels, who serve antichrist for 5 month period, revelation chapter 17:12. That one hour is 5 month period. Antichrist leads one world religious system near future. Its all nations in one world system. Theirs no tattoos or computer chip. It's being deceived by antichrist lies and deception. Ephesians chapter 6, without gospel armory on, majority will fall for antichrist lies and deception. Being biblically illiterate is dangerous.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, if you get out of the mind-set you have made for yourself that the seven kings are seven kingdoms - and just go with what is in the text instead, that they are kings - then everything works out.

The ten kings are ten kings of one kingdom - which they will hand over to the beast king to be dictator of it. In Revelation 17:17.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Yet you are not even paying attention to the words and in your own mindset.

"which have received no kingdom as yet"

They have no kingdom to offer to Satan, yet you say they exist to do just that. What is the one hour they give "their kingdom", which is not a kingdom, but the manpower they represent?

It is the one hour battle of Armageddon, and the people they represent. So Satan is represented by the head with 10 horns.

"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns"

Satan is one of the 7 heads, the one with 10 horns. 5 heads are literally dead already.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns."

Still Satan as one of the heads, the one with ten horns, and now ten crowns.

The difference is that the original 7 heads each had a crown as a kingdom throughout history, as Revelation 12 is historical.

Now it is just 10 kings representing the new earth formation after the 6th Seal, and now there is a single continent divided up into 10 new geographical regions. One of them being Egypt as still existing per Zechariah 14.

"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

Still 7 heads and one head as Satan with ten horns. In this chapter we are told that 5 heads are dead. When do you think they died? Who do you think they are historically if they are all the same beast in all 3 chapters?

Those heads were not necessarily kingdoms during that 42 month period. We already know from chapter 13, the 6th head was in a state of death but revived. If you are going to compare this dragon to Daniel 2, then the first 5 now dead heads are Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, and the ten toes. The 10 toes are not the ten horns. The ten toes are the 5th defunct kingdom, not found in Scripture other than Daniel 2. It would only be the Holy Roman Empire as the iron and clay is still the remnant of the 4th kingdom. Even though we are told in chapter 17, 5 heads were dead, they were still dead in chapter 12 before the 7th Trumpet sounded and dead in chapter 13 after the 7th Trumpet sounded. The 6th one was in a state of death, but revived. There is no 6th kingdom in Daniel 2. The stone and mountain are not the 6th kingdom. The stone and mountain is the church, the body of Christ.

Now the 6th kingdom may be the composite kingdom described as the 4 beast in Daniel 7. England, United States, Russia, and Islam, but there is no one head claiming to be the 6th kingdom from the Reformation to today. Thus a mortal wound dealt at the Reformation, and continues to this day.

Satan is the 7th head because it says he is of the seven, but never had a kingdom either, until he is the 8th kingdom after the 7th kingdom is declared for Jesus as King in the days of the 7th Trumpet. The 7th kingdom is not of the beast in any rendition of the beast. And the ten horns having no kingdom, but gather armies of followers happens after the Second Coming. Because there are nations today ruled by a single person, so no one today in authority over a kingdom fits the point of having no kingdoms.

"which have received no kingdom as yet"

Those in authority do have their kingdoms right now. And there is no single kingdom which is the point that after the Second Coming Satan will attempt to revive a one world government to the amazement of the world. But that kingdom will still be given to Christ at the 7th Trumpet. It is the 6th head that no one can figure out from Scripture because all we know is that it is in a state of death. You claim it is the EU and will be led by a resurrected human leader. It is the kingdom that is dead, not a human.

If you are going to compare this dragon with Daniel 2, they are kingdoms not kings. Even Babylon had two kings. Medes and Persians had several kings. Greece had Alexander the great, and several generals of armies. Rome had many emperors. So not sure how you can claim this single head, the 6th head represents one single human.


And trying to understand Daniel did he describe Rome using the 4 beast in Daniel 7, or are those modern governments? After chapter 7 we go back to the goats representing Greece. I would say Daniel 7 got us to the Second Coming. But then after chapter 8 we go back to Greece, and 9 is the period between Daniel and the birth of Jesus. The rest of the book could still be about the 70 weeks. The last half of the 70th week with Jesus as the Prince to come is still future. According to Revelation 10, that time is up in the days of the 7th Trumpet. That is when Jesus is declared the King of the 7th Kingdom. Which only lasts for 3.5 days, and then given to Satan for 42 months as the 8th kingdom. Armageddon is when Jesus returns to take back the 7th Kingdom. Or there is no 8th Kingdom at all, and the Millennium starts when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding.

That one kingdom you refer to is Satan and the 8th Kingdom. Satan is the head with 10 horns, and those kings are men currently with no government today. These 10 may be delegates to the UN, but cannot be heads of state. They will be those who survive the final harvest and still alive at the 7th Trumpet.

Most people today have this mindset based on a little tribulation at the end and then the Second Coming. Then either a millennium or directly into the NHNE. So they don't see the same beast described but then cannot get the beast reconciled with Daniel. I reconciled the beast with Daniel. 6 heads have already come and gone. If the 6th is revived, it is only during the tribulation. Those 42 months are not tribulation, but the AoD of Satan's Babylonian Empire. Satan is the 7th head and the only viable kingdom. There is no head ressurected to be the 8th Kingdom. Satan has not been bound because the beast/dragon started with Babylon. No where does it state this dragon has been bound in a pit until after the 8th kingdom.