Different kinds of healing?

[Carl Emerson]

No I haven't, do you have a link?

Jesus's Ministry

Dear Friends, I am really puzzled about the almost complete absence of a central aspect of Jesus ministry in the Christian world today. When Jesus broke into the world He immediately demonstrated spiritual authority over powers and principalities that were binding peoples lives with sickness...

www.christianforums.com

 

[ARBITER01]

Jesus's Ministry

Dear Friends, I am really puzzled about the almost complete absence of a central aspect of Jesus ministry in the Christian world today. When Jesus broke into the world He immediately demonstrated spiritual authority over powers and principalities that were binding peoples lives with sickness...

www.christianforums.com

Thanks, I'll read that through.

 

[jiminpa]

In the ministry of Jesus in the Gospel of John, "sign" and "miracle" are the same thing. Sometimes a sign is considered something Jesus said that itself was miraculous. You see, the Jews were looking for signs. They got plenty of them, but that didn't make them believe because it was much the same sort of thing as it is when witnessing to Atheists: they want evidence, and when you provide it, they want more evidence because the evidence you gave isn't good enough.

The world's gonna be the world. What bothers me is that those who call themselves the church are exponentially worse. There was that big-name anti-Holy Spirit conference a few years ago, by respected "Bible teachers," some of whom are already in the grave awaiting an unfavorable judgement now.

 

[jiminpa]

What I am uncomfortable with is the common line that folks should minister in power every day or they lack faith.

What makes me uncomfortable is that unbelief is now considered more spiritual than belief, as if telling God that He is not faithful is somehow a Christian badge of honor. No wonder the Church lacks faith. It's not the individuals Christians' lack of faith that bothers me as much as those claiming authority denouncing trust in God. No wonder faith is so difficult for most.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not counting you among them.

 

[Guojing]

The world's gonna be the world. What bothers me is that those who call themselves the church are exponentially worse. There was that big-name anti-Holy Spirit conference a few years ago, by respected "Bible teachers," some of whom are already in the grave awaiting an unfavorable judgement now.

Strange fire?

 

[jiminpa]

Strange fire?

Yes. The real strange fire was on the stage.

 

[Bobber]

In Mk 9:14 it states the disciples tied to get someone healed or set free and weren't able to do it.

If Jesus wasn't there to correct them they would have went away saying, It must not have been God's will. After all we all prayed and nothing happened!

Jesus set them straight though. He said the reason why was their doubt and unbelief. One isn't allowed to give a response like that in the current day. You'd be viewed upon as being insensitive and arrogant. So we have massive, massive amounts in Christendom which believe healing can't always be God's will. They prayed for a person and they weren't healed. Therefore it must not have been God's will.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus set them straight though. He said the reason why was their doubt and unbelief. One isn't allowed to give a response like that in the current day. You'd be viewed upon as being insensitive and arrogant. So we have massive, massive amounts in Christendom which believe healing can't always be God's will. They prayed for a person and they weren't healed. Therefore it must not have been God's will.

The problem with saying "God always wants you healed" is twofold

1. Paul did not use that for Timothy's stomach problems
2. It implies if a Christian believes that and is not healed, it must be his doubt and unbelief, which is a massive faith-wrecker.

 

[Bobber]

The problem with saying "God always wants you healed" is twofold

1. Paul did not use that for Timothy's stomach problems
2. It implies if a Christian believes that and is not healed, it must be his doubt and unbelief, which is a massive faith-wrecker.

Timothy has a sensitive stomach and the water in the day wasn't that great. Nothing wrong with Paul encouraging him to do what he said. It'd be like us telling one to take Pepto-Bismo an odd time.

And actually the scripture speaks of various reasons why someone is sick. Doesn't say it's the only reason but points out why are some weak and sickly among you....1 Cor 11:30 and he revealed it was things THEY were doing. I mean we've just got so sensitive one can NEVER even dare to teach what Paul the Apostle even stated. The yes there's the FAITH issue spoken of in different scriptures. There's not one reason but can be varous reasons. Today people say don't even talk about reasons. Well if one doesn't ever talk about reason you may not be able to help some you could have helped. No you don' t say this is the reason for you BUT you do teach the various reasons.

 

[Guojing]

Timothy has a sensitive stomach and the water in the day wasn't that great. Nothing wrong with Paul encouraging him to do what he said. It'd be like us telling one to take Pepto-Bismo an odd time.

And actually the scripture speaks of various reasons why someone is sick. Doesn't say it's the only reason but points out why are some weak and sickly among you....1 Cor 11:30 and he revealed it was things THEY were doing. I mean we've just got so sensitive one can NEVER even dare to teach what Paul the Apostle even stated. The yes there's the FAITH issue spoken of in different scriptures. There's not one reason but can be varous reasons. Today people say don't even talk about reasons. Well if one doesn't ever talk about reason you may not be able to help some you could have helped. No you don' t say this is the reason for you BUT you do teach the various reasons.

I am not saying there is anything wrong.

I am asking why didn't Paul tell Timothy, or anywhere else in his epistles to the Body of Christ when he had to leave people sick, that "God always wants you healed"?

 

[Bobber]

I am not saying there is anything wrong.

I am asking why didn't Paul tell Timothy, or anywhere else in his epistles to the Body of Christ when he had to leave people sick, that "God always wants you healed"?

Well he preached the gospel. Healing is a part of the gospel albiet spiritual salvation is most important. But he did preach about healing and I can demonstrate that.

I'll tell you one thing it's not easy to rise up and walk by faith when it comes to healing. You're many times dealing with pain, and symptoms and I certainly wouldn't want to make light of somebody who is in that serious battle. I suppose all of us are in it or will be sometime in the future. We must however stand and speak the truth. Healing is for every Christian.

Now , ok if they're not able to see it become manifest what then. We still circle around them with LOVE and mercy and seek to get them better through any and all medical means.

So you're asking why did Paul leave some sick. The same reason we do today. Still doesn't mean healing wasn't theirs to be realized.

 

[Guojing]

But he did preach about healing and I can demonstrate that.

Where?

 

[Bobber]

Where?

Acts 14:8,9

 

[Guojing]

Acts 14:8,9

I stated in his epistles.

 

[Bobber]

I stated in his epistles.

I could do that to but I don't need to. You need to explain WHY from Acts 14:8,9 it doesn't say what I've shared.

 

[Guojing]

I could do that to but I don't need to. You need to explain WHY from Acts 14:8,9 it doesn't say what I've shared.

But my question to you was "why didn't Paul tell Timothy, or anywhere else in his epistles to the Body of Christ when he had to leave people sick, that "God always wants you healed"?

Acts 14:8-9, other than not being an epistle written by Paul, at best, it can only allow you to conclude that Paul had the ability to heal by command, at that point in time.

 

[Bobber]

But my question to you was "why didn't Paul tell Timothy, or anywhere else in his epistles to the Body of Christ when he had to leave people sick, that "God always wants you healed"?

Well he had to leave that dear brother sick in the place that he was. It doesn't tell us why he was sick. There are possibilities that Paul talked on in 1 Cor 11:30 Or it could be faith and it doesn't mean the person wasn't a good brother. When the trial of sickness hits it's not always easy to rise up against it by FAITH. We love people regardless and work with them to get them well as best we can.

 

[Guojing]

Well he had to leave that dear brother sick in the place that he was. It doesn't tell us why he was sick. There are possibilities that Paul talked on in 1 Cor 11:30 Or it could be faith and it doesn't mean the person wasn't a good brother. When the trial of sickness hits it's not always easy to rise up against it by FAITH. We love people regardless and work with them to get them well as best we can.

From those words that I have bolded in your reply, you do agree that saying

1. "God always wants you healed" or
2. "it is your unbelief/lack of faith that explains why you are sick/not healed",

are not scriptural for today?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

In Mark 16 Jesus calls healing a sign that followers believers

In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul names healings as a manifestation (gift) of the Spirit.

What is the difference between the two? Do you have personal testimony bearing such evidence?

Is there video evidence of crippled people, people with heart failure, cerebral palsy, cancer patients, or any other life threatening terminal disease being healed? If the verses in Mark 16 and 1 Corinthians 12 apply to all who believe, there should be widespread video and medical evidence of it. The most prominent proponents who are teaching that these verses apply to all who believe, how come they are not demonstrating what they are preaching? In the 55 years I have been hearing speech making and preaching about healing, I have not seen one person who has been healed of any significant medical condition. What are we missing?

Also, if preachers are going to say that the verses in Mark 16 apply to all believers, how come they are not safely handling snakes and drinking poison as well? If one is going to apply part of the passage, they need to apply it all, don't they?

So, are these passages applicable to all believers if they are to have the required faith, ie: prescriptive; or are they descriptive, maybe happening in some cases, but not a requirement for all believers?

I am really interested in what answers people can give on this question.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is why I am out of the debate about healing. First, I don't want to be contentious. Second, I don't want to set the stage for others to hurt themselves and others by denying God and His word.
I simply testify to the goodness of God, the mercy of God, and the gospel and leave it at that. Those who have ears will hear.

I don't think that I am denying God and His word when I identify the elephant in the room - that the prominent, popular, well known preachers about healing, who insist that those who believe the healing Scriptures should be demonstrating them, if they have the required faith, are not able to demonstrate it themselves. I wonder if these healing preachers are accurately teaching these Scriptures? If they were accurately teaching the healing Scriptures, then they should be able to demonstrate healing of significant and terminal medical conditions, backed up by medical and video evidence. So where is that evidence?

No one gets healed in Benny Hinn's meetings. Bill Johnson talks about healing but can't heal anyone. His own wife died of cancer. If what he is teaching is true, he should have been able to see his wife healed. Andrew Wommack preaches that every believer should be able to demonstrate the signs in Mark 16, but he doesn't do it himself. Many students in the Bethel school of supernatural ministry got Covid, and none of them got healed. You would think that a school that is supposed to set the standard of supernatural ministry should be able to demonstrate what they are teaching. But the elephant in the room is that all they can teach is the theory, but the actual practical demonstration is not forthcoming.

So my question is not a denial of God or His word, nor is it because I am cessationist. But is God really supporting guaranteed healing in the way these preachers are preaching it? It seems not. With God there is always a reason why He does or doesn't do something. Because God is always true and right, then people not getting healed is not HIs fault. Therefore the only answer is that these preachers and teachers are misapplying His Word and making it appear that God should be healing people on demand according to HIs Word, when that is not really what God is saying in the Scriptural passages they are teaching.