The Covenant is only for Israel - Not the World

[Benjamin Müller]

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God isn't making a covenant with the world, He is only making the covenant with the House of Israel/the Twelve Tribes. If the world does not change citizenship to become part of Israel, they will not be given the Holy Spirit. Also when Christ returns, he's not coming to save the world, He is returning to save Israel--and Israel only.

Jeremiah 16:14-15 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be said, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ but, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.’ For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers.'

Matthew 24:22; Ezekiel 37:16-24

The Exodus and End Times are book ends. The entire Bible is Israel-centric; it only ever has to do with Israel and nations that come in contact with Israel. But just like during the Exodus, a great mixed multitude came out with Israel.

How does this set with people who are against the Hebrew Roots movements, or those from the past who accused Christians of Judaizing and persecuted them for it? If you're not Israel, you won't be rescued. You don't have to be blood Israel anymore, but how does one know your citizenship, except by your culture and behavior? You can't continue in man-made traditions and the culture of the world if you're an Israelite by birth or adoption. If the world doesn't recognize you as an Israelite, a Spiritual Jew, or a "Judaizer", as some mock, then it's unlikely God does as well.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Israel is like that fig tree Jesus cursed when passing by it because it didn't bear fruit.

Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. (Matthew 21:43)

I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper. (Luke 14:24)

There is evidence of an invitation, but they all made their excuses and deemed the son of God worthy of death over their place in Jewish society.

They could have had the law of kindness written on their minds and hearts, and have been a kind older son to all the prodigal sons out there, but that time period has passed. The judaism of today, is not the same judaism of 2000 years ago ... and the israel of 2000 years ago ceased to exist. So the idea in the OP does not apply to anyone in existence.

There is no longer Jew and there is no longer gentile, we're all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

we're all one in Christ Jesus.

Who was born a Jew.

Therefore we are all Spiritual Jews and Israelites--if Christ dwells in us. Your post doesn't address the very obvious statement from God that He is coming for Israel, whether born or grafted in. And that means bearing the fruit of a true Israelite, as God intended for us to do back at Sinai.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Who was born a Jew.

Regardless of how we are born, we must be born again.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Therefore we are all Spiritual Jews and Israelites--if Christ dwells in us. Your post doesn't address the very obvious statement from God that He is coming for Israel, whether born or grafted in. And that means bearing the fruit of a true Israelite, as God intended for us to do back at Sinai.

The church Jesus is building and will continue to build is the prophetic fulfillment of "Israel" in this era.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jeremiah 16:14-15 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be said, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ but, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.’ For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers.'

The covenant came, but the day Jesus rode on a donkey he wept because they missed the day of their visitation. The land was not returned because they turned against the one spoken of in Deuteronomy.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If you're not Israel, you won't be rescued. You don't have to be blood Israel anymore, but how does one know your citizenship, except by your culture and behavior? You can't continue in man-made traditions and the culture of the world if you're an Israelite by birth or adoption. If the world doesn't recognize you as an Israelite, a Spiritual Jew, or a "Judaizer", as some mock, then it's unlikely God does as well.

Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” (2 Timothy 2:19)

Turn away from wickedness, meaning don't act like the people who crucified Jesus.

God knows those who are His, meaning regardless of outward appearance God knows who is actually born again by the Holy Spirit. These are the only one who can offer worship in spirit and in truth.

having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (2 Timothy 3:5)

This part of the OP was saying we should have a form of Godliness because God is blind and would not recognize us unless we play the part of the OP. This type of teaching is something to turn away from or repent of as 2nd Timothy says.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” (2 Timothy 2:19)

Turn away from wickedness, meaning don't act like the people who crucified Jesus.

To turn away from wickedness means, "If you love me you will keep my commandments"; Christ was the Word in the Old Testament and gave physical Israel the laws, the judgements, the statutes and we are told to obey His commandments. The church as Spiritual Israel keeps the law. Christ added to the law "anyone who looks at a woman to lust has committed adultery".

To be a citizen of Israel, in the church and in the Kingdom, means to keep the laws of the kingdom--which are neatly laid out in the OT, and expounded on in the New.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

To turn away from wickedness means, "If you love me you will keep my commandments"; Christ was the Word in the Old Testament and gave physical Israel the laws, the judgements, the statutes and we are told to obey His commandments. The church as Spiritual Israel keeps the law. Christ added to the law "anyone who looks at a woman to lust has committed adultery".

To be a citizen of Israel, in the church and in the Kingdom, means to keep the laws of the kingdom--which are neatly laid out in the OT, and expounded on in the New.

Since we know it is written that sin is magnified by the law, why preach repression as a remedy? It's like the source of this teaching doesn't want others to succeed or something.

To be a citizen of the Kingdom of God, one must be born again by the Holy Spirit. Being born again makes us part of the same bloodline as Jesus Christ. This reminds me of in the Garden when the snake said to the humans who were already "like God" that they could be "like God" if they ate the forbidden fruit. This "extra" beyond what God does for us is being presented like a forbidden fruit. So no thanks to said teaching.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

This is absolutely accurate, the Father made a New Covenant with the Jewish people through his Son, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Though only a remnant are actually in that Covenant there is also " another fold" not of Israel that are included. We can not deny the very words of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Be blessed.

John: 10
And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

 

[Soyeong]

Israel is like that fig tree Jesus cursed when passing by it because it didn't bear fruit.

Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. (Matthew 21:43)

I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper. (Luke 14:24)

There is evidence of an invitation, but they all made their excuses and deemed the son of God worthy of death over their place in Jewish society.

They could have had the law of kindness written on their minds and hearts, and have been a kind older son to all the prodigal sons out there, but that time period has passed. The judaism of today, is not the same judaism of 2000 years ago ... and the israel of 2000 years ago ceased to exist. So the idea in the OP does not apply to anyone in existence.

There is no longer Jew and there is no longer gentile, we're all one in Christ Jesus.

God's law is His instructions for how to bear the fruit of the Kingdom, which is why Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so I see no grounds to think that Jesus was speaking about taking the Kingdom away from Jews who did not obey God's law and being given to Gentiles who also do not obey it, whereas those who obey it through faith in the God of Israel become part of Israel and are able to partake in the New Covenant.

Those who were invited who will not taste the supper are not those who are correctly obeying God's law. The New Covenant is based on better promises and one of those promises is that Israel would never cease to be a nation before God (Jeremiah 31:35-37).

The Bible clearly refers to those who are Jews or Gentiles, men or women, slaves or free, and Paul identified as a Jew (Acts 21:39, 22:3), so he was not denying the reality of these distinctions, but rather he was denying that they gave someone a special status when it comes to be in Christ.

Regardless of how we are born, we must be born again.

Agreed, this is why Paul said in Romans 2:26-29 that someone is is physically uncircumcised who keeps the Mosaic Law will condemn those who are circumcised who break it, so a Jew must be both outwardly and inwardly circumcised, so even those who are born a Jew need to be born again. Likewise, in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again.

Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.” (2 Timothy 2:19)

Turn away from wickedness, meaning don't act like the people who crucified Jesus.

God knows those who are His, meaning regardless of outward appearance God knows who is actually born again by the Holy Spirit. These are the only one who can offer worship in spirit and in truth.

having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! (2 Timothy 3:5)

This part of the OP was saying we should have a form of Godliness because God is blind and would not recognize us unless we play the part of the OP. This type of teaching is something to turn away from or repent of as 2nd Timothy says.

In Psalms 119:53, the wicked are those who forsake the Mosaic Law. You re rather blatantly taking 2 Timothy 3:5 our of context in order to apply it to the OP. God's law is not His instructions for how to have a form of godliness while denying its power.

Since we know it is written that sin is magnified by the law, why preach repression as a remedy? It's like the source of this teaching doesn't want others to succeed or something.

To be a citizen of the Kingdom of God, one must be born again by the Holy Spirit. Being born again makes us part of the same bloodline as Jesus Christ. This reminds me of in the Garden when the snake said to the humans who were already "like God" that they could be "like God" if they ate the forbidden fruit. This "extra" beyond what God does for us is being presented like a forbidden fruit. So no thanks to said teaching.

There is nothing innate to the command to love our neighbor that magnifies sin, but rather the problem was that there was the law of sin that was working within him that magnifying sin in reaction to the Mosaic Law. If the Mosaic Law magnified sin, then it would not be holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12). In Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to His. Eating the forbidden fruit is disobeying what God commanded, not obeying it.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

God's law is His instructions for how to bear the fruit of the Kingdom

We bear fruit through faith in God, the Holy Spirit produces fruit through this faith and develops our character. Relying on a set of rules instead of God magnifies the sin in the members of the body and results in no fruit.

What you have said is incorrect. I will search for the next talking point and respond to that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Likewise, in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again.

Those who are born again by the Holy Spirit, are born again by the Holy Spirit. Only God knows who are actually His.

Stating someone is or isn't born again based on human criteria is taking a role out of God's hand and playing God.

Thus I disagree with your theology.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

There is nothing innate to the command to love our neighbor that magnifies sin, but rather the problem was that there was the law of sin that was working within him that magnifying sin in reaction to the Mosaic Law. If the Mosaic Law magnified sin, then it would not be holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12).

From the same letter: The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more. (Romans 5:20)

It is not only important to take the whole scripture in context, but also when reading a letter or book in scripture: to take the writing in context also.

You are using romans to disprove romans, so I disagree with your theology.

 

[HIM]

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God isn't making a covenant with the world, He is only making the covenant with the House of Israel/the Twelve Tribes. If the world does not change citizenship to become part of Israel, they will not be given the Holy Spirit. Also when Christ returns, he's not coming to save the world, He is returning to save Israel--and Israel only.

Jeremiah 16:14-15 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that it shall no more be said, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ but, ‘The LORD lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north and from all the lands where He had driven them.’ For I will bring them back into their land which I gave to their fathers.'

Matthew 24:22; Ezekiel 37:16-24

The Exodus and End Times are book ends. The entire Bible is Israel-centric; it only ever has to do with Israel and nations that come in contact with Israel. But just like during the Exodus, a great mixed multitude came out with Israel.

How does this set with people who are against the Hebrew Roots movements, or those from the past who accused Christians of Judaizing and persecuted them for it? If you're not Israel, you won't be rescued. You don't have to be blood Israel anymore, but how does one know your citizenship, except by your culture and behavior? You can't continue in man-made traditions and the culture of the world if you're an Israelite by birth or adoption. If the world doesn't recognize you as an Israelite, a Spiritual Jew, or a "Judaizer", as some mock, then it's unlikely God does as well.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, male or female we are all one in Christ, the Israel of God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In Psalms 119:53, the wicked are those who forsake the Mosaic Law. You re rather blatantly taking 2 Timothy 3:5 our of context in order to apply it to the OP. God's law is not His instructions for how to have a form of godliness while denying its power.

Relying on the law instead of the Holy Spirit nets that result.

Replacing the role of the Holy Spirit with the scripture was inevitable since Protestantism came from Catholicism that had many such theologies of replacing the trinity with man made devices and stories.

However, I don't agree with this theology either.

 

[HIM]

Relying on the law instead of the Holy Spirit nets that result.

Replacing the role of the Holy Spirit with the scripture was inevitable since Protestantism came from Catholicism that had many such theologies of replacing the trinity with man made devices and stories.

However, I don't agree with this theology either.

Christians rely on the Spirit to be able to keep the law. If not then they are not.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Christians rely on the Spirit to be able to keep the law. If not then they are not.

The law isn't enough, just read the gospels. The teachings of Jesus are more difficult than the law.

People are advocating the law and a tithe because it is easier.

 

[HIM]

The law isn't enough, just read the gospels. The teachings of Jesus are more difficult than the law.

People are advocating the law and a tithe because it is easier.

The word, the law through the spirit through Christ is kept. It is of Christ. Those that do are. Those who do not are not.

 

[Soyeong]

We bear fruit through faith in God, the Holy Spirit produces fruit through this faith and develops our character.

Do you think that God gave the Israelites instructions for how to bear fruit or that the Israelites had no idea how to do that? God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by trusting in what He has instructed while it is contradictory to think that we bear fruit through trusting in God, but do not bear fruit through trusting in what He has instructed. We have a choice of whether we are going to do what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correct divide between right and wrong through what He has instructed, and that is what it means to have faith in God (Proverbs 3:1-6). Likewise, the Sprit has the role of leading us to obey what God has instructed (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and this is how the Spirit produces this fruit through faith.

Relying on a set of rules instead of God magnifies the sin in the members of the body and results in no fruit.

What you have said is incorrect. I will search for the next talking point and respond to that.

It is good to have the self-awareness to recognize when we have interpreted a verse as saying something completely absurd and to conclude that we must have misunderstood it rather than to promote an absurdity as truth. God is more than capable of giving good instructions for how to bear fruit for the Kingdom, so it is absurd to think that God is only capable of giving such poor instructions that they lead magnify sin instead of bearing fruit. Likewise, it is completely absurd to think that instructions for how to avoid sin magnifies sin instead of leading us to avoid sin. You can't explain what is innate to God's commands to refrain from sin that instead magnifies it, so your interpretation is not even plausibly correct.

Those who are born again by the Holy Spirit, are born again by the Holy Spirit. Only God knows who are actually His.

Stating someone is or isn't born again based on human criteria is taking a role out of God's hand and playing God.

Thus I disagree with your theology.

I don't dispute that it is tautologically true that those who are born again of the Holy Spirit are born again of the Holy Spirit oe that God knows who are actually his. Nevertheless, God's word reveals that those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to His law are not born again, so we can let God determine who are the ones who practice righteousness, though it is nevertheless true that does who do not do that are not born again.

From the same letter: The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more. (Romans 5:20)

It is not only important to take the whole scripture in context, but also when reading a letter or book in scripture: to take the writing in context also.

You are using romans to disprove romans, so I disagree with your theology.

In Romans 7:21-23, Paul delighted in obey the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin held him captive and was causing him not to do the good that he wanted to, so it would be absurd to interpret Romans 5:20 as though Paul delighted in causing sin to increase, but rather causing sin to increase matches Paul's description of the law of sin. I'm not using Romans to disprove Romans, but rather I am using Romans to disprove your completely absurd misunderstanding of Romans.

Relying on the law instead of the Holy Spirit nets that result.

Replacing the role of the Holy Spirit with the scripture was inevitable since Protestantism came from Catholicism that had many such theologies of replacing the trinity with man made devices and stories.

However, I don't agree with this theology either.

The Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, so relying on it is the way to rely on the Spirit. Do you think that God gave the Israelites instructions for how to determine whether something is wicked, or do you think that they had no idea how to do that?

The law isn't enough, just read the gospels. The teachings of Jesus are more difficult than the law.

People are advocating the law and a tithe because it is easier.

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so for you to suggest that Jesus did that is to say that he sinned and therefore to deny that he is our Savior. However, even if Jesus could have taught teachings that were more difficult than the Law of Moses in disagreement with the Father without disqualifying himself as our Savior, then at the very least you should agree that we should obey it plus whatever else that he taught to make it more difficult.