Details of Pentagon secret document Discord leaker emerge

[Arcangl86]

There have been a lot more court-martials than those two. I've been on the jury panel of one of them, I've observed a couple more, and I've closely followed several.

In my lights, my experience trumps your conspiracy theory. I'm satisfied with the quality of the court-martial process, particularly compared to the civilian court system.

I have my own opinion of the Garwood case.

So I have a sort of technical question. Based on the reports, do you think this is being treated as a military or civilian case? And what would govern that decision? I was wondering because the FBI seem to be taking the lead, which I would *think* (but of course don't know for sure) would be the role of OSI if it was a court martial.

 

[Pommer]

So I have a sort of technical question. Based on the reports, do you think this is being treated as a military or civilian case? And what would govern that decision? I was wondering because the FBI seem to be taking the lead, which I would *think* (but of course don't know for sure) would be the role of OSI if it was a court martial.

UCMJ rules I think, here, military, then.

 

[RDKirk]

So I have a sort of technical question. Based on the reports, do you think this is being treated as a military or civilian case? And what would govern that decision? I was wondering because the FBI seem to be taking the lead, which I would *think* (but of course don't know for sure) would be the role of OSI if it was a court martial.

Either or both. The military will often let civilian justice system handle a case first for the civilian law that was broken, then prosecute whatever additional military crime that might have been broken.

They do still have to recognize issues of double jeopardy, however. For instance, murder is a crime under both civilian and military law, but if the military allows the civilian court to handle a case of murder by a soldier, they can't prosecute the soldier for that same murder under military law. OTOH, if that soldier broke a uniquely military law in the course of that murder--say, stole the weapon from the military armory--then the military will also prosecute him for that military crime while the civilian court is prosecuting him for the civilian crime.

Laws governing SCI clearances are federal laws, above the DoD and encompassing civilians both inside and outside government, so it's the FBI's jurisdiction. But if he did what is alleged that he did, then he also broke some additional uniquely military laws along the way, so I expect he'll be investigated by both the OSI and the FBI.

 

[RDKirk]

He should also be treated as a whistleblower. The commander and chief not only did not seek the authorization of Congress to put troops in the Ukraine, but flat out lied about it to the Congress, press, and American people. There were also more balloons tracked, a fact that the Biden administration was also dishonest about.

First, no, he's not a whistleblower when his intention was that nobody would know about it except some people in a closed chat group.

Second, there are avenues a whistleblower can take in the military, and he tried none of them. He didn't even bother to see the unit chaplain.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The US has people with military dog tags around their necks all over the place. They may be military advisors. They may be diplomatic attaches. They may be observers. They may be electricians and carpenters. That has never been considered "troops on the ground."

I believe that's how US intervention in Vietnam started though...

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I believe that's how US intervention in Vietnam started though...

Kind of, but Vietnam was hardly the first or last time that we had advisors/diplomats/observers/electricians/carpenters/etc in a foreign country during a conflict.

 

[rambot]

It's really interesting hearing about the machinations of this stuff from someone with direct, experience and knowledge.

 

[RDKirk]

What was actually shared were photos on top of a hunting magazine. You cannot take photos of secure documents inside a secure location and the hunting magazine suggests a private one though maybe national guard toilets have copies for while-you-wait scenarios.

There are no rest rooms in SCIFs! ;-)

 

[Gene2memE]

He should also be treated as a whistleblower.

What whistle is he blowing?

The commander and chief not only did not seek the authorization of Congress to put troops in the Ukraine, but flat out lied about it to the Congress, press, and American people.

That's because there were already troops and other personnel authorised to be there. US military 'advisors', trainers, 'defense attaches' and other personnel have been openly serving in Ukraine since 2014. There have been dozens of media reports of that.

There have also been dozens of media reports of US personnel being active in Ukraine since the 2022 Russian invasion. A quick check shows reporting from the New York Times, Associated Press, NBC News, CNN, Fox News, Reuters, military.com, Washington Post and others.

But, being active in Ukraine does not mean that US forces are directly involved in combat with Russian forces in Ukraine (which is what would require Congressional authorisation). While training personnel were pulled out, US armed forces personnel in Ukraine returned about mid 2022 as part of the security mission attached to the US State Department presence in the country.

Plus, there's the entire alphabet soup of US intelligence agencies that will have people liaising with counterparts in Ukraine and working on various and sundry things of their own.

And, the US is funding de-mining and EoD operations with civilian contractors.

All of this information is available online and easily verified through publically available statements. I'm just an armchair general, but if I know this, who is the Biden Administration lying to?

There were also more balloons tracked, a fact that the Biden administration was also dishonest about.

Was it dishonest about it, or did it just not report these incidents?

 

[JosephZ]

It appears Teixeira may have also been planning to carry out a terrorist attack against Americans.

Prosecutors argued that Jack Teixeira, the Air National Guardsman who allegedly released Pentagon secrets on social media, had an “arsenal” of weapons and could flee the charges against him if released from jail, in anticipation of his detention hearing Thursday.

"A search of the Defendant’s primary and secondary residences – that of his mother and father – also revealed the existence of a virtual arsenal of weapons, including bolt-action rifles, rifles, AR and AK-style weapons, and a bazooka," prosecutors said.

Teixeira also appeared fixated with mass killings, according to prosecutors:

• In November 2022, he said he would “kill a (expletive) ton of people” because it would be “culling the weak minded.”
• In February 2023, he told a social-media user he was tempted to convert a specific type of minivan into an “assassination van.”
• In February 2023, he sought advice from another social-media user for what type of rifle would operate easily from the back of an SUV. He described how he would shoot in a “crowded urban or suburban environment.”

FBI Special Agent Luke Church said in a court filing Teixeira used his government computer in July 2022 to search the following terms: “Ruby Ridge,” “Las Vegas shooting,” “Mandalay Bay shooting,” “Buffalo tops shooting,” and “Uvalde.” The searches were unrelated to his job, according to Church.

Pentagon leak suspect Jack Teixeira had an 'arsenal' of weapons, prosecutors said

Jack Teixeira, the Air National Guardsman who allegedly leaked Pentagon secrets on social media, had a detention hearing Thursday.

www.usatoday.com

 

[mindlight]

It appears Teixeira may have also been planning to carry out a terrorist attack against Americans.

Prosecutors argued that Jack Teixeira, the Air National Guardsman who allegedly released Pentagon secrets on social media, had an “arsenal” of weapons and could flee the charges against him if released from jail, in anticipation of his detention hearing Thursday.

"A search of the Defendant’s primary and secondary residences – that of his mother and father – also revealed the existence of a virtual arsenal of weapons, including bolt-action rifles, rifles, AR and AK-style weapons, and a bazooka," prosecutors said.

Teixeira also appeared fixated with mass killings, according to prosecutors:

• In November 2022, he said he would “kill a (expletive) ton of people” because it would be “culling the weak minded.”
• In February 2023, he told a social-media user he was tempted to convert a specific type of minivan into an “assassination van.”
• In February 2023, he sought advice from another social-media user for what type of rifle would operate easily from the back of an SUV. He described how he would shoot in a “crowded urban or suburban environment.”

FBI Special Agent Luke Church said in a court filing Teixeira used his government computer in July 2022 to search the following terms: “Ruby Ridge,” “Las Vegas shooting,” “Mandalay Bay shooting,” “Buffalo tops shooting,” and “Uvalde.” The searches were unrelated to his job, according to Church.

Pentagon leak suspect Jack Teixeira had an 'arsenal' of weapons, prosecutors said

Jack Teixeira, the Air National Guardsman who allegedly leaked Pentagon secrets on social media, had a detention hearing Thursday.

www.usatoday.com

And there was I feeling sorry for the guy.

The above seems credible. He bought into a culture of guns and violence but misunderstood the essential commitment to truth, justice, and righteousness that underpins any effective military. Or is he symptomatic of deeper problems in the military culture?

His lack of discipline and penchant for ad hoc pronouncements were dedicated to gaining attention/notoriety for himself as a dangerous man to be taken seriously, in touch with the top secret news stream. A real killer would not have talked about it and would just have done it.

His lack of life experience, his low rank, and his lack of a regular military commission suggest that real military people probably did not take him that seriously at all. Their mistake in such a transparent system. Narcissists should not be allowed anywhere near power.

Would he have actually done all these things? I guess he will never get the chance to find out. They have dug up enough dirt by now to put him in a dark hole and throw away the key.

 

[RDKirk]

His lack of life experience, his low rank, and his lack of a regular military commission suggest that real military people probably did not take him that seriously at all. Their mistake in such a transparent system. Narcissists should not be allowed anywhere near power.

His relatively low rank was because he hadn't been enlisted very long. The majority of people in the military are not commissioned officers...but they're taken very seriously.

Narcissism (a much overused term these days) isn't necessarily a bad thing in an organization that it must be guarded against an rooted out wherever found. Just in personal relationships.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Air Force suspends leaders of alleged Pentagon leaker Jack Teixeira's unit​

 

[mindlight]

Air Force suspends leaders of alleged Pentagon leaker Jack Teixeira's unit​

Isn't that normal in such a serious investigation and not necessarily permanent? They may well be cleared of all charges of negligence, incompetence, failures of protocol, etc. Or is it symptomatic of that deeper cultural issue that they are now addressing?

 

[mindlight]

His relatively low rank was because he hadn't been enlisted very long. The majority of people in the military are not commissioned officers...but they're taken very seriously.

Narcissism (a much overused term these days) isn't necessarily a bad thing in an organization that it must be guarded against an rooted out wherever found. Just in personal relationships.

Narcissism is hard to define in a military context and might be confused with charisma in the case of someone like General Patton. But it mainly obscures judgment making things all about oneself rather than the actual issues and people at hand. The general that wants loyalty over truth is going to make a bad call at some point.

 

[RDKirk]

Narcissism is hard to define in a military context and might be confused with charisma in the case of someone like General Patton. But it mainly obscures judgment making things all about oneself rather than the actual issues and people at hand. The general that wants loyalty over truth is going to make a bad call at some point.

As I said, "narcissism" is greatly overused. It's probably usually misdiagnosed by laymen who just don't like certain people's attitudes.

But I don't see the authoritative descriptions of narcissism being related to an inability to accept the truth about objective situations, like the status and capabilities of enemy forces.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Accused Pentagon leaker’s violent rhetoric raises fresh questions about top secret vetting process​

New details about the 21-year-old Air National Guardsman accused of leaking a trove of classified documents online reveal how multiple red flags went unheeded and weren’t enough to prevent the Pentagon from granting him a top-secret security clearance.

according to court documents filed by prosecutors on Wednesday, Teixeira was suspended from his high school only three years earlier, when a classmate “overheard him make remarks about weapons, including Molotov cocktails, guns at the school, and racial threats.”

Teixeira also applied for a firearm identification card in 2018 and 2019, both of which were denied over concerns by his local police department about the comments he had made at his school that led to his suspension, the prosecutors said.

According to court documents, when Teixeira applied again in 2020 for a firearm identification card, he cited his position in the military and his top secret clearance as reasons why he should be entrusted with a firearm.

“Teixeira is a great example of how the department of defense has failed to figure out how to root out extremists,” said Kris Goldsmith, an Army veteran and CEO of Task Force Butler, a non-profit focused on combating extremism in the military. “The fact that he was able to get a top secret security clearance after it became known to the local police that he shouldn’t have a gun, kind of boggles the mind and it makes me wonder what other kind of problems there are with the clearance system.”

 

[essentialsaltes]

“Teixeira is a great example of how the department of defense has failed to figure out how to root out extremists,”

Another example in today's news:

US Army soldier accused of plotting to “physically remove” Black and brown people in several North Carolina counties is now facing up to a decade in prison after pleading guilty to a separate, gun-related charge, federal prosecutors announced

When the illegal firearm [3D printed short barrel rifle] was discovered in March 2022, Anthony was stationed at Fort Bragg in North Carolina as an intelligence analyst, according to records provided by the Army. He was involuntarily separated from the military in February 2023.

A more thorough search of his car by Military Police uncovered an American flag emblazoned with a Swastika, “Nazi type patches,” two extended magazines and ammunition, it said.

The search of Anthony’s room also uncovered: White supremacist literature, t-shirts and patches; magazines for various firearms; and several electronic devices, the prosecutor’s office said.

On his electronic devices, investigators found evidence of “a preliminary self-titled ‘operation’” aimed to “physically remove as many of [black and brown people] from Hoke, Cumberland, Robeson and Scotland Counties by whatever means need be,” the release said.

 

[RDKirk]

Accused Pentagon leaker’s violent rhetoric raises fresh questions about top secret vetting process​

New details about the 21-year-old Air National Guardsman accused of leaking a trove of classified documents online reveal how multiple red flags went unheeded and weren’t enough to prevent the Pentagon from granting him a top-secret security clearance.

according to court documents filed by prosecutors on Wednesday, Teixeira was suspended from his high school only three years earlier, when a classmate “overheard him make remarks about weapons, including Molotov cocktails, guns at the school, and racial threats.”

Teixeira also applied for a firearm identification card in 2018 and 2019, both of which were denied over concerns by his local police department about the comments he had made at his school that led to his suspension, the prosecutors said.

According to court documents, when Teixeira applied again in 2020 for a firearm identification card, he cited his position in the military and his top secret clearance as reasons why he should be entrusted with a firearm.

“Teixeira is a great example of how the department of defense has failed to figure out how to root out extremists,” said Kris Goldsmith, an Army veteran and CEO of Task Force Butler, a non-profit focused on combating extremism in the military. “The fact that he was able to get a top secret security clearance after it became known to the local police that he shouldn’t have a gun, kind of boggles the mind and it makes me wonder what other kind of problems there are with the clearance system.”

The EBI (Extended Background Investigation) should certainly have sniffed out his high school suspension. I know that my EBI investigators did go to my high school principal and counselors (because they later asked me about the government agents who questioned them about me).

But generally, things like being denied firearm identification cards wouldn't be noted after the initial EBI until his clearance came up for renewal, which is every five years. And unless the police kept that denial as a criminal record for that person (unlikely) it still would not be found.

 

[mindlight]

The EBI (Extended Background Investigation) should certainly have sniffed out his high school suspension. I know that my EBI investigators did go to my high school principal and counselors (because they later asked me about the government agents who questioned them about me).

But generally, things like being denied firearm identification cards wouldn't be noted after the initial EBI until his clearance came up for renewal, which is every five years. And unless the police kept that denial as a criminal record for that person (unlikely) it still would not be found.

The level of this leak requires a proportionate response. Also, the levels of tolerance for dumb militarism and gun-ho racism may well be higher in the US military than in the general population. Red flags are usually missed because the filters for certain kinds of behavior do not exist or because the command and control were implemented in only a haphazard fashion. But I can see that such an investigation could all too easily be politicized also. Keeping this investigation honest about the actual issues will require strong institutions. I would expect standards to be lower in the National Guard than the regular military but then why did they have the same level of access to the information also?