Donald Trump indicted by Manhattan grand jury

[Postvieww]

Others include if there was an intent to commit another crime (tax fraud, campaign violations, etc.) and if there was an intent to defraud (and whom).

No one can find that other crime in the indictment.

 

[Postvieww]

The 34 specific charges are in the document.

These 34 charges only become a felony if they were to cover up another crime. No one can find that other crime in the indictment. This is a political hit job . Not justice at work,

 

[Postvieww]

Good point about NBC.

Even congress had a slush fund to pay off those who made sexual allegations. All kept under raps . No names released.

 

[Postvieww]

Nice smoke bomb!

Looked like a fire bomb to me!

 

[BPPLEE]

If you weren't discovered under a cabbage leaf yesterday, the payment to Stormy Daniels, a couple weeks before the election, was meant to influence the election (like advertising money, etc.). Not all of the money Trump spent on his campaign went into his own pockets -- those are still campaign expenses.

We were talking about Zuckerberg not Trump. The $400 million Zuckerberg spent on the election

 

[JosephZ]

These 34 charges only become a felony if they were to cover up another crime. No one can find that other crime in the indictment. This is a political hit job . Not justice at work,

The crimes are not required to be included in the indictment, but they have been made known.

In a news conference held after Trump's appearance in court on Tuesday afternoon, Bragg clarified what prosecutors view as two possible other crimes in the Trump case.

The first is New York state election law, "which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means," Bragg said. In this case, that "could include" false statements, like the misrepresentation to tax authorities of the payments to Cohen.

The second is federal election law, which caps the amount that can be donated to candidates in federal elections.

The indictment does not specify these other crimes. Bragg said he views New York state law as not requiring prosecutors to do so.

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/04/1168094097/donald-trump-felony-charges-reaction-trial

 

[BPPLEE]

The crimes are not required to be included in the indictment, but they have been made known.

In a news conference held after Trump's appearance in court on Tuesday afternoon, Bragg clarified what prosecutors view as two possible other crimes in the Trump case.

The first is New York state election law, "which makes it a crime to conspire to promote a candidacy by unlawful means," Bragg said. In this case, that "could include" false statements, like the misrepresentation to tax authorities of the payments to Cohen.

The second is federal election law, which caps the amount that can be donated to candidates in federal elections.

The indictment does not specify these other crimes. Bragg said he views New York state law as not requiring prosecutors to do so.

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/04/1168094097/donald-trump-felony-charges-reaction-trial

The 6th amendment disagrees with your assertion that the crimes don’t have to be in the indictment

 

[JosephZ]

The 6th amendment disagrees with your assertion that the crimes don’t have to be in the indictment

The crimes he's being charged with are clearly listed in the indictment.

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

Statement of Facts

1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election.

2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme.

3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan.

This payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were made in New York business records to effectuate this payment, separate and apart from the New York business records used to conceal the payment.


4. After the election, the Defendant reimbursed Lawyer A for the illegal payment through a series of monthly checks, first from the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust (the “Defendant’s Trust”)—a Trust created under the laws of New York which held the Trump Organization entity assets after the Defendant was elected President—and then from the Defendant’s bank account. Each check was processed by the Trump Organization, and each check was disguised as a payment for legal services rendered in a given month of 2017 pursuant to a retainer agreement. The payment records, kept and maintained by the Trump Organization, were false New York business records. In truth, there was no retainer agreement, and Lawyer A was not being paid for legal services rendered in 2017. The Defendant caused his entities’ business records to be falsified to disguise his and others’ criminal conduct.

READ: Trump indictment and statement of facts

Former President Trump appeared in a New York courtroom Tuesday afternoon to hear the charges brought against him by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and read in court by Judge Juan Merchan.…

thehill.com

Trump isn't being charged for any of the crimes that may have been concealed by his alleged falsifying of business records, that's why they are not listed in the indictment. Therefore, there is no violation of the 6th amendment.

 

[USincognito]

These 34 charges only become a felony if they were to cover up another crime. No one can find that other crime in the indictment. This is a political hit job . Not justice at work,

Then Donald should have no trouble getting the case thrown out in December.

 

[NxNW]

On the other hand, there is no question of Hillary's guilt for far greater crimes.

I hereby question it.

Why hasn't she been prosecuted?

She was investigated and found completely innocent of any crime.

This is a mockery of justice, we have hard core leftists who are willing to violate our Constitution in order to get Trump

Link?

and to stop the population from voting for him.

You must be confused. It's the right who is trying to take away voting rights.

The longer this injustice goes on, the more money wasted, money that could be used to help the poor, the greater the travesty.

Which injustice is that?

 

[Hans Blaster]

The 6th amendment disagrees with your assertion that the crimes don’t have to be in the indictment

As you have been told, the charged crime (falsifying business records in the 1st degree) is listed and for each count the specific record falsified. But you are complaining about the same things as this one:

No one can find that other crime in the indictment.

the other crime that the record falsification is in furtherance of.

The "other crime" is an *element* of the crime that must be proven at trial. Intent is clearly another element of this particular crime and the details of that intent aren't accused in the indictment either.

 

[wing2000]

I do know that information was withheld from the grand jury,

No you do not know that.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Then charge him with a misdemeanor and ...

I don't know all the legal niceties, but that might be how this all turns out. A plea deal or conviction on a lesser charge.

(And not to put the cart before the horse, (not to mention that I don't know what I'm talking about) but I expect any sentencing to be not strictly additive. While each of the ~10 checks he signed is charged as a separate crime, and it seems if one of the checks was criminal then all of them must be, but I doubt he'll get 10 times the sentence.)

 

[BPPLEE]

The crimes he's being charged with are clearly listed in the indictment.

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

Statement of Facts

1. The defendant DONALD J. TRUMP repeatedly and fraudulently falsified New York business records to conceal criminal conduct that hid damaging information from the voting public during the 2016 presidential election.

2. From August 2015 to December 2017, the Defendant orchestrated a scheme with others to influence the 2016 presidential election by identifying and purchasing negative information about him to suppress its publication and benefit the Defendant’s electoral prospects. In order to execute the unlawful scheme, the participants violated election laws and made and caused false entries in the business records of various entities in New York. The participants also took steps that mischaracterized, for tax purposes, the true nature of the payments made in furtherance of the scheme.

3. One component of this scheme was that, at the Defendant’s request, a lawyer who then worked for the Trump Organization as Special Counsel to Defendant (“Lawyer A”), covertly paid $130,000 to an adult film actress shortly before the election to prevent her from publicizing a sexual encounter with the Defendant. Lawyer A made the $130,000 payment through a shell corporation he set up and funded at a bank in Manhattan.

This payment was illegal, and Lawyer A has since pleaded guilty to making an illegal campaign contribution and served time in prison. Further, false entries were made in New York business records to effectuate this payment, separate and apart from the New York business records used to conceal the payment.


4. After the election, the Defendant reimbursed Lawyer A for the illegal payment through a series of monthly checks, first from the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust (the “Defendant’s Trust”)—a Trust created under the laws of New York which held the Trump Organization entity assets after the Defendant was elected President—and then from the Defendant’s bank account. Each check was processed by the Trump Organization, and each check was disguised as a payment for legal services rendered in a given month of 2017 pursuant to a retainer agreement. The payment records, kept and maintained by the Trump Organization, were false New York business records. In truth, there was no retainer agreement, and Lawyer A was not being paid for legal services rendered in 2017. The Defendant caused his entities’ business records to be falsified to disguise his and others’ criminal conduct.

READ: Trump indictment and statement of facts

Former President Trump appeared in a New York courtroom Tuesday afternoon to hear the charges brought against him by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg and read in court by Judge Juan Merchan.…

thehill.com

Trump isn't being charged for any of the crimes that may have been concealed by his alleged falsifying of business records, that's why they are not listed in the indictment. Therefore, there is no violation of the 6th amendment.

They are doing it backwards and the underlying charge is not specified

 

[Postvieww]

Bragg said he views New York state law as not requiring prosecutors to do so.

Apparently NY doesn't require him to view real felonies such as murder and armed robbery as felonies either. This is a sham, it will will all come out eventually probably with a dismissal or at least thrown out on appeal. This is not the justice system working as designed it is a political hit job!

 

[Arcangl86]

Apparently NY doesn't require him to view real felonies such as murder and armed robbery as felonies either. This is a sham, it will will all come out eventually probably with a dismissal or at least thrown out on appeal. This is not the justice system working as designed it is a political hit job!

What are you talking about?

 

[Hans Blaster]

They are doing it backwards and the underlying charge is not specified

And why would it? It's just one element of the 1st degree crime. Did they list all of the other elements in the indictment?

Trump was informed what he was charged with (1st degree false business records x34) and what specific acts of falsity each charge associated with. There doesn't seem to be a 6th Am. leg to stand on here. Like with the SOL issues, it will be litigated in pre-trial motions. If the judge rules there isn't a sufficient intended other crime, it will be tossed or lowered to 2nd degree. This is the same as any "SOL issues" which could get the charge tossed.

 

[DaisyDay]

Trump once again is his own worst enemy, even how in he handled this Manhattan mess. Michael Cohen as he was being indicted sought a pardon from Trump. Trump has pardoned it seems everyone under the sun for the wrong reasons. He pardoned Sheriff Joe Arpaio for the wrong reasons. He pardoned everyone in his circle who served jail, was in jail, sentenced and about to serve jail, or also indicted. He even pardoned some people who are now back in jail after committing crimes after being pardoned. So why didn't he just pardon Cohen and get rid of the whole situation? They often say with Trump loyalty is a one way street. Even if he felt Cohen wronged him in some way, his disregard for norms or just doing the right thing wasn't a road block to pardoning Cohen.

We don't even know the extent of his pardons since they did not have to be public (until utilized).

 

[wing2000]

And why would it? It's just one element of the 1st degree crime. Did they list all of the other elements in the indictment?

Trump was informed what he was charged with (1st degree false business records x34) and what specific acts of falsity each charge associated with. There doesn't seem to be a 6th Am. leg to stand on here. Like with the SOL issues, it will be litigated in pre-trial motions. If the judge rules there isn't a sufficient intended other crime, it will be tossed or lowered to 2nd degree. This is the same as any "SOL issues" which could get the charge tossed.

...there doesn't seem to be a lot of faith in the defense counsel based on some of the comments I see here...

 

[Hans Blaster]

...there doesn't seem to be a lot of faith in the defense counsel based on some of the comments I see here...

Trump does seem to have hired a couple good NY white collar criminal attorneys just before the case opened.

Oh, wait, you were talking about our fellow posters. I get it. I also find their lack of faith disturbing.

If there is anything we can be certain of, it is that Trump will *insist* that every motion (including frivolous ones) will be filed. On the charges, the venue, the SOL, the indictment, the bias of the GJ, everything. They will so much pasta at the wall it will be like a violent temper tantrum at a Fazzoli's.