Donald Trump indicted by Manhattan grand jury

[mark46]

??? His lawyer went to jail given the same crimes. Sounds like proof of "conspiring to commit a crime" to me.

There is no question that the crime was not the payments, but other crimes. As we remember, Trump's complicity was clearly in the record. The evidence from Cohen's trial should be admissible, at least that evidence associated with the specific records in the 34 indictments.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, December 12, 2018

Michael Cohen Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison​

U.S. Attorney’s Office Also Announces Non-Prosecution Agreement with American Media, Inc., Related to Its Payment of $150,000 to a Woman to Influence 2016 Presidential Election​

Robert Khuzami, Attorney for the United States, Acting Under Authority Conferred by 28 U.S.C. § 515, announced that MICHAEL COHEN was sentenced today to three years in prison for tax evasion, making false statements to a federally insured bank, and campaign finance violations. COHEN pled guilty on August 21, 2018, to an eight-count information before U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III, who imposed today’s sentence. In a separate prosecution brought by the Special Counsel’s Office (“SCO”), COHEN pled guilty on November 29, 2018 to one count of making false statements to the U.S. Congress and was also sentenced on that case today, receiving a two-month concurrent sentence.
According to the allegations in Information 18 Cr. 602 (WHP), filed by the United States States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York (the “Office”), as well as previous court filings and statements in public court proceedings:
Between 2012 and 2016, COHEN concealed more than $4 million in personal income from the Internal Revenue Service, avoiding more than $1.3 million in income tax. COHEN also made false statements to a federally insured financial institution to obtain a $500,000 home equity loan. Finally, in 2016, COHEN made or caused two separate payments to women to ensure that they did not publicly disclose their alleged affairs with a presidential candidate in advance of the election. In one instance, COHEN caused American Media, Inc. (“AMI”), which was identified in previous court filings as “Corporation-1,” to make a $150,000 payment to one woman; in the other, COHEN made a $130,000 payment to another woman through an LLC he incorporated for the purpose of making the payment. COHEN was reimbursed for the latter payment in monthly installments disguised as payments for legal services performed pursuant to a retainer, when in fact no such retainer existed. COHEN made or caused both of these payments in order to influence the 2016 election and did so in coordination with one or more members of the campaign.

 

[mark46]

Oh please, the 25th amendment would have been evoked if there was something solid enough to convict him on. This indictment will be like the two flimsy impeachments that went nowhere. The whole thing all of these years has smacked loudly of grasping at straws.

Nonsense.

The 25th Amendment is NOT the vehicle to remove a president because of crimes. That process is impeachment.

The 25th Amendment is to remove a president who is unable to continue to serve. After January 6th, the Amendment was considered, especially after the statements of Republican leadership in the first week. Pence and the majority of the cabinet members would have had to agree. Instead, they all recanted their outrage and decided to back Trump and his actions leading up to January 6th and on January 6th.

Instead, we needed to wait unit Trump was gone to start an investigation. Now, there a state case in GA, and two sets of cases in DC. Republican leadership is still backing Trump. There definitely will be indictments, especially likely in DC. We'll see where Republican leadership stands in the Fall. I think it likely that more and more donors will move away from support of the indicted Trump and focus on electing senators and House members,

 

[ozso]

Nonsense.

The 25th Amendment is NOT the vehicle to remove a president because of crimes. That process is impeachment.

The 25th Amendment is to remove a president who is unable to continue to serve. After January 6th, the Amendment was considered, especially after the statements of Republican leadership in the first week. Pence and the majority of the cabinet members would have had to agree. Instead, they all recanted their outrage and decided to back Trump and his actions leading up to January 6th and on January 6th.

Instead, we needed to wait unit Trump was gone to start an investigation. Now, there a state case in GA, and two sets of cases in DC. Republican leadership is still backing Trump. There definitely will be indictments, especially likely in DC. We'll see where Republican leadership stands in the Fall. I think it likely that more and more donors will move away from support of the indicted Trump and focus on electing senators and House members,

I've heard all of that kind of rhetoric since 2017 and most likely I'll keep hearing it throughout the rest of 2023 and into 2024.

 

[ozso]

It almost was, but then the GOP decided they could spin their way out of it.

Well there's umpteen excuses for years on end, and then there's the probability that there's never been anything solid enough to convict him on.

 

[Hans Blaster]

After all these years of failed attempts, that seems likely enough. Probably a case where they can pin indicted on him, but then claim he couldn't actually be prosecuted because he managed to delay the wheels of justice long enough for the statute of limitations to run out, he only escaped prosecution due to a technicality, next time he won't be so lucky blah blah blah.

I find it difficult to take your opinions seriously if you think any prosecutor would just file charges they know are outside the statue of limitations just because they would like to "get" a particular person.

 

[ozso]

I find it difficult to take your opinions seriously if you think any prosecutor would just file charges they know are outside the statue of limitations just because they would like to "get" a particular person.

Fact: the statute of limitations for fraud in New York state is 6 years. Fact: the alleged crime took place in October 2016. Now what do you make of that?

 

[A2SG]

Well my skepticism mixed with cynicism might be due to being in conversations about him being indicted and convicted for six or seven years now, which can't all be blamed on Trump. And this latest, even though it's finally an actual indictment, will probably only lead to a misdemeanor, if it even succeeds, which isn't all that likely. How come it didn't take so many years with so many excuses to idict and convict Cohen and so many others tied to Trump? I keep hearing what a buffoon Trump is and how incompetent his layers are, yet they somehow supposedly manage to do what no one else, like lawyer Cohen, and high level people with top lawyers, have even come close to managing.

Money can often trump competence.

-- A2SG, pardon the phrasing....

 

[A2SG]

It says a lot of people hated him so much they voted against him. A lot of votes cast were votes against Trump more than for Biden

Very probably true. Which would easily explain the 2020 election, and how it wasn't in any way stolen.

-- A2SG, not that any evidence whatsoever ever suggested it was.....

 

[Hans Blaster]

Fact: the statute of limitations for fraud in New York state is 6 years. Fact: the alleged crime took place in October 2016. Now what do you make of that?

What do I make of that: the NYCo DA knows more about these things than either of us. Pick a new line of attack.

 

[mark46]

I've heard all of that kind of rhetoric since 2017 and most likely I'll keep hearing it throughout the rest of 2023 and into 2024.

I have heard little about the 25th amendment over the years.

I have heard about potential court cases, especially those that might involve Trump.
=======================
There several active cases involving Trump his company and workers.

As these cases are being investigated and tried (or abandoned), they have been part of the news. Yes, you will hear of Trump being involved in cases during the rest of 2023, and through all of 2014, and likely beyond.

Almost all responsibility so far has been diverted. Now, it the time of those cases that directly affect Trump and his company. 17 felony convictions so far for his company, 34 felony indictments for him personally, and a rape case coming up this month.

We will wait for the cases in GA and DC to come to completion. I don't know what will happen. My guess is a couple of convictions out of the Special Counsel in DC, but maybe not.

 

[ozso]

I have heard little about the 25th amendment over the years.

I have heard about potential court cases, especially those that might involve Trump.
=======================
There several active cases involving Trump his company and workers.

As these cases are being investigated and tried (or abandoned), they have been part of the news. Yes, you will hear of Trump being involved in cases during the rest of 2023, and through all of 2014, and likely beyond.

Almost all responsibility so far has been diverted. Now, it the time of those cases that directly affect Trump and his company. 17 felony convictions so far for his company, 34 felony indictments for him personally, and a rape case coming up this month.

We will wait for the cases in GA and DC to come to completion. I don't know what will happen. My guess is a couple of convictions out of the Special Counsel in DC, but maybe not.

I'm sorry but I've heard all of that or very similar already dozens of times over a period of several years. The only thing new is that he was finally actually indicted for something.

 

[ozso]

What do I make of that: the NYCo DA knows more about these things than either of us. Pick a new line of attack.

Pointing out established facts is a line of attack eh? Interesting.

 

[ozso]

Money can often trump competence.

So he's been paying off all the investors, committees, procecuters, and law enforcement agencies?

 

[A2SG]

So he's been paying off all the investors, committees, procecuters, and law enforcement agencies?

I have no idea, I'm not his accountant.

-- A2SG, don't recall claiming I was.....

 

[ozso]

I have no idea, I'm not his accountant.

-- A2SG, don't recall claiming I was.....

That's quite some routine you have going.

 

[A2SG]

That's quite some routine you have going.

What routine is that, exactly?

-- A2SG, not sure what you think I'm doing, exactly...

 

[ozso]

How about blaming the total lack of prosecution in several years on climate change? Or has that been tried already?

 

[ozso]

What routine is that, exactly?

-- A2SG, not sure what you think I'm doing, exactly...

That one.

 

[A2SG]

That one.

What one?

-- A2SG, still confused......

 

[Pommer]

After all these years of failed attempts, that seems likely enough. Probably a case where they can pin indicted on him, but then claim he couldn't actually be prosecuted because he managed to delay the wheels of justice long enough for the statute of limitations to run out, he only escaped prosecution due to a technicality, next time he won't be so lucky blah blah blah.

From my understanding, the New York statute of limitations’ clock stops if the indictee leaves the state.