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Donald Trump indicted by Manhattan grand jury

Petros2015

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18 U.S. Code § 2383. Tanks or heavy weapons are irrelevant.

§2383. Rebellion or insurrection

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
===========================

Not more than 10 years? Huh. Kinda surprised by that, but maybe those things were kinda common, coming as we were from being under England at one point. "It's in our blood," a bit I suppose. PROBABLY weren't expecting your own acting commander in chief sworn to defend the laws of the Constitution(!!!) to try a coup at the time of writing this; perhaps there are other laws and penalties that may apply in that case. If there aren't, or they aren't being applied, I would say that's a pretty big problem.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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They're relevant in an actual takeover of a large country. If they were actually trying to take over, they would have all been heavily armed and would have held the politicians in the capitol building as hostages etc. Not just run around for a while and then go home.
They* planned on killing Vice President Pence and Speaker Pelosi, Donald declaring martial law and having the military take over the election, disrupting the the certification process long enough for it to have to be decided by the states, etc. etc.

The Green Bay Sweep planned a mostly bloodless, procedural coup.
According to the plan, public pressure created by the delay would lead state legislatures in six key battleground states with Republican-dominated legislatures – Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada – to de-certify election results, with the intended outcome that Trump would have more certified electoral college votes than the election's actual winner, Joe Biden.​
Ironically it was the attack on the Capitol that prevented the Green Bay Sweep from coming to fruition as Pence refused to go along with it.

*They means the numerous individuals and groups who planned to attack the Capitol including the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, III%ers and others.
 
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Petros2015

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They* planned on killing Vice President Pence and Speaker Pelosi, Donald declaring martial law and having the military take over the election, disrupting the the certification process long enough for it to have to be decided by the states, etc. etc.

The Green Bay Sweep planned a mostly bloodless, procedural coup.
According to the plan, public pressure created by the delay would lead state legislatures in six key battleground states with Republican-dominated legislatures – Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada – to de-certify election results, with the intended outcome that Trump would have more certified electoral college votes than the election's actual winner, Joe Biden.​
Ironically it was the attack on the Capitol that prevented the Green Bay Sweep from coming to fruition as Pence refused to go along with it.

*They means the numerous individuals and groups who planned to attack the Capitol including the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, III%ers and others.

Yep. Dang near worked too. They were really in position, especially with the Supreme court packed with 3 Trump appointees.
Things REALLY could have gotten hairy with Flynn's connections as a former general to other military sympathizers as well, I'm glad it didn't go that way. There were A LOT of chess pieces being moved to very dangerous places leading up to the election and then to Jan 6. This was a real threat.


Thank you Supreme Court.


Heh. Good help is SO hard to find these days!
 
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ozso

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They* planned on killing Vice President Pence and Speaker Pelosi, Donald declaring martial law and having the military take over the election, disrupting the the certification process long enough for it to have to be decided by the states, etc. etc.

The Green Bay Sweep planned a mostly bloodless, procedural coup.
According to the plan, public pressure created by the delay would lead state legislatures in six key battleground states with Republican-dominated legislatures – Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada – to de-certify election results, with the intended outcome that Trump would have more certified electoral college votes than the election's actual winner, Joe Biden.​
Ironically it was the attack on the Capitol that prevented the Green Bay Sweep from coming to fruition as Pence refused to go along with it.

*They means the numerous individuals and groups who planned to attack the Capitol including the Proud Boys, Oathkeepers, III%ers and others.
Looks like a conspiracy theory.
 
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BPPLEE

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Looks like a conspiracy theory.
What they fail to see is that the more they charge him with the more support he gains. They are virtually guaranteeing him the nomination.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Let's do them one at a time. Number one, Raid on Mar-a-lago.
That's not quite what I'm talking about, but o.k.

Donald stole hundreds of physical documents including some 100+ classified ones, of which over a dozen were SCI and not supposed to be stored at his hotel even if he was allowed to have them. NARA tried for over a year to get him to return the documents. He even lied about returning everything and had his lawyers perjure themselves when they attested that he'd returned everything. They finally contacted DOJ who went to a magistrate and secured a search warrant for the documents that was executed with his knowledge and cooperation. Some 11,000 pages were recovered.
Donald then tried numerous legal tricks including having a hand-picked judge (that he appointed) appoint a special master to review the documents, but that was thrown out by higher courts who determined Judge Cannon was acting outside the law, the special master was dismissed and the docs were returned to the DOJ so the case could continue.

There was no "raid".

President Obama has been accused by the Conservisphere of having 33,000,000 documents in former furniture store. That's partially true as the documents are under the control of NARA, not President Obama and they are being stored there until the Obama Library and Center is opened.

The closest we can come with Secretary Clinton is the legendary 33,000 emails.. emails.. emails! In actuality she had emails that were part of email chains, not original and certainly not physical documents like Donald stole. More importantly very few even had classified markings. a WaPo fact check shows that only three had markings and those three were marked incorrectly.
In his news conference, Comey said “three of those were classified at the time they were sent or received.” At the time, he said one was marked “secret” and two “confidential,” but at a congressional hearing two days later, he said all were marked “confidential,” the lowest form of classification. Moreover, he acknowledged that markings — a (C) — were contained in the body of the text and, contrary to standard practice, there was no header at the top alerting someone that this was classified material. He told lawmakers that without a header, it was “a reasonable inference” that this material was not classified.

The emails concerned proposed talking points for Clinton when she called a foreign leader. The State Department later said the (C) markings should have been removed as a matter of course once Clinton decided to place the call but through “human error,” they had not been deleted. In her FBI interview, Clinton said she did not know what (C) meant and “speculated it was a reference to paragraphs ranked in alphabetical order.” The IG report said the FBI missed the (C) markings until late in the investigation.

In her Twitter thread, Clinton said, “Comey admitted he was wrong after he claimed I had classified emails” — a reference to his remarks at the congressional hearing.

“When he testified before the House Oversight Committee, he was forced to concede the markings he pointed to were ambiguous, did not comply with federal classification guidelines, and did not contain proper classification markings,” Kendall said.​

Despite these facts, we've been hearing for years from the conservatives and red hats that "Hillary had 33,000 classified emails that she poured bleach on and destroyed with a hammer so lock her up".

So yeah, I'm not seeing where Donald is being treated worse than Secretary Clinton on President Obama since he actually did have the stolen, physical documents and he refused to return them despite NARA asking for over a year.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Looks like a conspiracy theory.
I know you guys think that's a clever retort, but ironically you're correct. There was quite a few conspiracy theories in operation on January 6th from the Green Bay Sweep orchestrated by Donald's closest pals to Proud Boys and Oathkeepers who have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy.

Thanks for agreeing with me.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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What they fail to see is that the more they charge him with the more support he gains.
I don't know why we need to continue be point this out, but he's only gaining support among the most ardently faithful of his base. He is in no way gaining support among those who didn't already worship the ground he walks on.
They are virtually guaranteeing him the nomination.
Every Dem in the country hopes so. Heck, they'd love for him to be a three time loser.
 
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Always in His Presence

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More Russian propaganda, I see. Can you produce a photo of this alleged laptop?
Democratic Senator Jerry Nadler - no friend of Trump nor the Russians authorized it's entry into the Congressional Record.

That's even better than a photo -


House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler initially rebuffed Gaetz's request but ultimately capitulated after the Florida congressman pressed further and claimed he had a “consultation with majority staff.”​
 
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ozso

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I know you guys think that's a clever retort, but ironically you're correct. There was quite a few conspiracy theories in operation on January 6th from the Green Bay Sweep orchestrated by Donald's closest pals to Proud Boys and Oathkeepers who have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy.

Thanks for agreeing with me.
I'm not you guys. I read the Wikipedia article you posted, and it read like a conspiracy theory. I bet that book made a lot of sales.
 
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Always in His Presence

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I'm personally really happy that this is going through the courts.

First, let's remember a person is innocent until proven guilty - even though there is much joy on the Left - it's not established until the verdict.

Second, after watching five years of machinations and endless investigations, inquiries - ah, ha moments - I look forward seeing the outcome.
So far they are 1,260 and zero, so my confidence for them is rather low.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Since there was no "insurrection" on January 6 it takes a lot of time to invent charges.
The evidence says otherwise no matter how hard conservatives try and gaslight everyone.
The riots iin Portland or Georgia where rioters seized land and buildings and tried to hold their ground can be argued to actually meet the definition of the word.
They're irrelevant. No government was in any danger of being overthrown by the Cop City folks or CHOP. The plans by those who attacked our democracy on J6 were literally to do just that.
We are on the brink of World War III,
So says the Conservisphere, but we've been on the brink of WW III for 60 years and the only one threatening it is Putin because he's not being allowed to engage in Ukrainian genocide.
leftist countries are encouraged by the left wing grab for power and control in the U.S.
What in the world are you talking about?
TikTok and other social media platforms are succeeding beyond their dreams.
I'm not a fan of TikTok, but it's actually a less pernicious influence on social and political discourse in the U.S. than Twitter and Facebook have been. Russian bots and trolls have warped the thinking of 10s of millions of Americans.
Nancy Pelosi said Trump will have an opportunity to prove his innocence. That's not how are Constitution is supposed to work.
This is yet another example of where a Dem speaks inelegantly and the Conservisphere think tanks tell off their follows to parrot this same talking point. We'll be hearing about how Speaker Pelosi thinks you have to prove your innocence for years to come, ironically even longer than we heard "Lock her up" from Donald's ardent followers.
 
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USincognito

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I'm not you guys.
I don't know who you mean by "you guys". How about addressing me directly instead of some imagined association you think I belong to.
I read the Wikipedia article you posted, and it read like a conspiracy theory. I bet that book made a lot of sales.
Again, thank you for agreeing with me that the Green Bay Sweep was a conspiracy theory concocted by Peter Navarro based upon the Eastman memos and which he detailed inhis book In Donald Time.

Are you somehow suggesting it was a story he made up about the planning ex post facto? Because it goes far beyond what he wrote in the book. “We spent a lot of time lining up over 100 congressmen, including some senators. It started out perfectly. At 1 p.m., Gosar and Cruz did exactly what was expected of them,” Navarro told The Daily Beast. “It was a perfect plan. And it all predicated on peace and calm on Capitol Hill. We didn’t even need any protestors, because we had over 100 congressmen committed to it.”
 
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Valletta

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They would be relevant if the takeover were from the outside, not so much for a palace coup. The working theory seems to have been if they could delay the vote until enough senators agreed to accept the "alternate" slate of electors or have Pence declare Trump the winner. It didn't work, but they tried.
What it did was stop the legal objections to the election that were being made.
 
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BPPLEE

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I don't know why we need to continue be point this out, but he's only gaining support among the most ardently faithful of his base. He is in no way gaining support among those who didn't already worship the ground he walks on.

Every Dem in the country hopes so. Heck, they'd love for him to be a three time loser.
I’m beginning to think that is the strategy and evidently you haven’t seen his poll numbers among Republicans. I don’t think he can win the general election and I don’t want him nominated. I wish your people would stop helping him.
 
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Democratic Senator Jerry Nadler - no friend of Trump nor the Russians authorized it's entry into the Congressional Record.

That's even better than a photo -
He entered a hard drive with the stolen and hacked data the he got from into the Congressional record. That's not the same as entering "the laptop" into the Congressional record, nor is it evidence that the supposed laptop actually exists.

Interesting how he's had the hacked data for over a year now (this stunt was back in 2022) and yet he hasn't been able to produce any evidence of a crime? You'd think in the intervening year, especially when they thought there was going to be a red wave, that he'd have gotten all the dirt and been ready to present it.
 
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BPPLEE

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He entered a hard drive with the stolen and hacked data the he got from into the Congressional record. That's not the same as entering "the laptop" into the Congressional record, nor is it evidence that the supposed laptop actually exists.

Interesting how he's had the hacked data for over a year now (this stunt was back in 2022) and yet he hasn't been able to produce any evidence of a crime? You'd think in the intervening year, especially when they thought there was going to be a red wave, that he'd have gotten all the dirt and been ready to present it.
If the laptop doesn’t exist what is this lawsuit about? Hunter Biden sues computer repairman for invasion of privacy over handling of laptop
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Our nation has extremely serious problems, enough with the insurrection baloney.
The failed insurrection to install Donald as a dictator being the most pressing of them followed closely by the fact that the more he commits crimes and sells out this country, the more the conservative Republican base supports him.
 
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ozso

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I don't know who you mean by "you guys". How about addressing me directly instead of some imagined association you think I belong to.
You replied to me saying: "I know you guys think that's a clever retort..."
Again, thank you for agreeing with me that the Green Bay Sweep was a conspiracy theory concocted by Peter Navarro based upon the Eastman memos and which he detailed inhis book In Donald Time.

Are you somehow suggesting it was a story he made up about the planning ex post facto? Because it goes far beyond what he wrote in the book. “We spent a lot of time lining up over 100 congressmen, including some senators. It started out perfectly. At 1 p.m., Gosar and Cruz did exactly what was expected of them,” Navarro told The Daily Beast. “It was a perfect plan. And it all predicated on peace and calm on Capitol Hill. We didn’t even need any protestors, because we had over 100 congressmen committed to it.”
I'll have to get back to you on that.
 
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