Hypocrite "Christian" men

[Proverbs3five]

Well, if any person believes it's OK for them to fornicate, but it's not OK for their partner to fornicate, yes, that is sin. Scripture tells us that no Christian may fornicate, and that hypocritical judgment is wrong.

But I really, really hope you're limiting this contempt to the Christian men who fornicate or commit adultery. If a man doesn't do those things, and has not done those things, why shouldn't he value women who have done the same as him?

I am. In my post I pointed out the exact type of Christian man I was referring to: The Christian man who holds their partner to a standard they themselves are not willing to meet.

 

[Proverbs3five]

Here is a lot of the problem...some people who identify as Christians are not born again. How do I know? I was one of them.

I think you hit the nail on the head. These men who do this can't be born-again. There's no way they could be and live this lifestyle unrepentantly. Wow, thank you for this bit of wisdom. I'm so naive that I assume anyone who calls themselves a Christian is born-again whereas some just were raised in church. There is most definitely a difference. I regret that I identified them as Christian men in my post title. The more accurate term would be "Unsaved men who call themselves Christian."

Thanks again

 

[Proverbs3five]

Hello. It might to an extent be based on former culture and differences in biology:

13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. 20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.(Deuteronomy 22)

I note that the wife in that situation could not take the husband to court and challenge his virginity or have him stoned for promiscuity. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying.

God Bless

Your theory falls flat because nowhere in this passage (or anywhere in the bible) does God say or imply that it is ok for a man to fornicate because no one can prove whether he did or not. Whether or not his fornication can be proven, he's still held to the same standard.

 

[Proverbs3five]

Well the OP is a 31 year old unmarried woman, complaining about men preferring virgin brides.

Could this possibly be a vent on her part and frustrated that she doesn't meet that criteria and missed her chance? The best women get the best men. I would ask but she hasn't signed on since posting this thread.

I was complaining about men holding women to a standard they themselves are not willing to meet. There's no hypocrisy in a virgin man preferring a virgin woman or vice versa and so I have no qualms with that.

As for your question of whether I don't meet the criteria and missed my chance, it seems you haven't considered the possibility that I am unmarried by choice. It's not always the man's choice on whether a relationship occurs, and I have no interest in building a relationship with man who professes to be a Christian yet unrepentantly fornicates while holding women to a different standard. As another commenter pointed out, these men are not saved, and I'd rather stay in solitude than knowingly marry an unsaved man who can't control his sexual urges while expecting to be in control of his wife's.

 

[lismore]

Your theory falls flat because nowhere in this passage (or anywhere in the bible) does God say or imply that it is ok for a man to fornicate because no one can prove whether he did or not.

You're right, it's not right.

Whether or not his fornication can be proven, he's still held to the same standard.

He should be but he's not in that passage. Perhaps for reasons of biology. God Bless

 

[Proverbs3five]

He should be but he's not in that passage. Perhaps for reasons of biology. God Bless

Because all scripture is consistent, the man is still held to the same standard, even in this passage. No part of scripture contradicts itself, so if elsewhere in the bible it says that God's standard is that men should not have sex outside of marriage, this passage does not contradict that standard. To say so would be to claim God is inconsistent, and that simply is not true.

You're missing the point of this passage. All scripture points to Jesus: so the point of this passage wasn't to say men are allowed to have premarital sex but women are not (besides if that were the case, who would the men be having sex with?) the point was to show that given this process, we can be confident that Jesus' conception was in fact a miracle and not the result of traditional conception methods.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am. In my post I pointed out the exact type of Christian man I was referring to: The Christian man who holds their partner to a standard they themselves are not willing to meet.

That is, in a nutshell, what "Purity" culture is. Women as a commodity, and men are the buyers and sellers. A woman is treated as belonging to her father until such a time that she is given to her husband. What do you think all those daddy-daughter purity balls and purity rings that were in vogue not too long ago were about? It's gross and dehumanizing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[dzheremi]

The prohibition against fornication was given to all. The glorification of virginity never applied to men. You altered His intentions by esteeming obedience in one sex over the other. That was never God’s plan.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

In addition to the monastic literature mentioned earlier by our friend Ignatius, praise for those in a state of virginity (without respect to their sex) is actually written into the liturgy itself, at least in so far as concerns the Coptic liturgy of St. Basil (the most commonly-celebrated liturgy in the Egyptian Church, the textual core of which dates back to the saint's time in the 4th century). In one part, the priest prays aloud the "Litany of Mercy", which states in part that we all pray at that time to God for "all ministers, all who are in virginity, and the purity of all Your faithful people." (emphasis mine)

Maybe the understanding of the 'value' of virginity (for lack of a better way to put it) has changed in certain times and places, but the standard of what we are to believe and how we are to go about enacting those beliefs (which is codified in the prayers of the liturgy) is very clear, and is not prejudiced against or for one sex over another.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Women are promiscuous as well. It's not just men. There's a big problem with premarital sex from both sides.

 

[Diamond72]

yet-somehow-believes-he-deserves-to-marry-a-virgin

I married a 35-year-old virgin, does that qualify me for being a hypocrite? She has held this marriage together for over 25 years so far and she does not plan on giving up on me now.

 

[Diamond72]

Finding a Christian lady to be my wife has been an impossibility.

Easy to find a wife in a third world nation. They are happy for the opportunity to come to the land of opportunity and find a good-paying job by their standards.

 

[Paidiske]

Because using wealth and privilege to short-cut to the rewards of character development and building relationship skills is so noble.

 

[Niels]

Unfortunately, the world is full of double standards. People frequently demand traits and behaviors from others that they themselves can't deliver. Which doesn't make it right, but perhaps more understandable. Double standards are part of the human condition. They aren't just a man thing or a woman thing. If this particular one bothers you so much, then don't date people who buy into it.

 

[Proverbs3five]

Unfortunately, the world is full of double standards. People frequently demand traits and behaviors from others that they themselves can't deliver. Which doesn't make it right, but perhaps more understandable. Double standards are part of the human condition. They aren't just a man thing or a woman thing. If this particular one bothers you so much, then don't date people who buy into it.

Yes, the world is full of double standards, so I guess my disappointment stems from my expecting Christian men to not be "conformed to the world but be transformed by the renewing of their minds." Another commenter hit the nail on the head when they said the men who unrepentantly fornicate are not saved and thus aren't true Christians. You see, there are ppl, men and women alike, who call themselves Christians because they were raised in the church but as a matter of fact do not have the Holy Spirit living within them. These were the men I was talking about, not true Christian men. So that's my take away from this, not to, as you suggest, lower my expectations of Christian men, but to discern between men who are Christian in name only and men who are true followers of Christ.

Take care

 

[Niels]

Yes, the world is full of double standards, so I guess my disappointment stems from my expecting Christian men to not be "conformed to the world but be transformed by the renewing of their minds." Another commenter hit the nail on the head when they said the men who unrepentantly fornicate are not saved and thus aren't true Christians. You see, there are ppl, men and women alike, who call themselves Christians because they were raised in the church but as a matter of fact do not have the Holy Spirit living within them. These were the men I was talking about, not true Christian men. So that's my take away from this, not to, as you suggest, lower my expectations of Christian men, but to discern between men who are Christian in name only and men who are true followers of Christ.

Take care

My suggestion was that you avoid dating men who hold those double standards. Not to lower yours.

Hypocrisy is a human problem. Not specific to men or women. Bashing men in general is uncalled for.

I agree that discernment is important. Look for fruits of the Spirit.

 

[Lost Witness]

Yes, the world is full of double standards, so I guess my disappointment stems from my expecting Christian men to not be "conformed to the world but be transformed by the renewing of their minds." Another commenter hit the nail on the head when they said the men who unrepentantly fornicate are not saved and thus aren't true Christians. You see, there are ppl, men and women alike, who call themselves Christians because they were raised in the church but as a matter of fact do not have the Holy Spirit living within them. These were the men I was talking about, not true Christian men. So that's my take away from this, not to, as you suggest, lower my expectations of Christian men, but to discern between men who are Christian in name only and men who are true followers of Christ.

Take care

I Agree
I'll Pray the LORD Gives You the Discernment You need in your search, Sister.


"The Lord bless you and keep you;
The Lord make His face shine upon you,
And be gracious to you;
The Lord lift up His countenance upon you,
And give you peace.” ’


Shalom

 

[lismore]

If everyone selected a partner based on virtue and faith you wouldn’t have a singleness problem.

Perhaps they should focus on virtue and faith.

It exists because that isn’t the lone criteria they’re using to choose companions. There’s little difference between secular and Christian wants.

Perhaps there is another way of looking at it. There is a world of difference between secular and Christian wants, a chasm is fixed between those who are dead and those who are alive in Christ. It's just that many who claim to be Christian are not. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him (Titus 1:16). God Bless

 

[ZephBonkerer]

...I have been running a Christian fellowship notice in the local newspaper at my cost for two years now. I did get some response to that, but they all seem to be looking for a church that holds a worship service. They can't seem to grasp that where two Christians are gathered together, doing whatever is wholesome, there is fellowship. They've been so conditioned by their denominational upbringing they can't see outside of it, even though they say they are. I can't help them.

I would have gladly taken you up on that. I have grown disenchanted with the traditional American church format: you gather in a building on Sunday morning at either 9:30 or 11:00 AM, you get coffee, sing songs for 15 minutes, then you listen to some guy talk for an hour. Then people head for the exits. (As a side note, you might want to consider promoting your organization online - newspapers are a relic of the past.)

Every once in a while, they may have a potluck or some event. While these opportunities for fellowship are tremendous, they don't happen often enough to make it worth getting out of bed early. I am often out on Saturday nights having a good time. Getting home at 3am Sunday morning is nothing unusual for me.

 

[Diamond72]

then you listen to some guy talk for an hour.

As if he had something to say when in a lot of churches they show up empty handed.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I would have gladly taken you up on that. I have grown disenchanted with the traditional American church format: you gather in a building on Sunday morning at either 9:30 or 11:00 AM, you get coffee, sing songs for 15 minutes, then you listen to some guy talk for an hour. Then people head for the exits. (As a side note, you might want to consider promoting your organization online - newspapers are a relic of the past.)

Every once in a while, they may have a potluck or some event. While these opportunities for fellowship are tremendous, they don't happen often enough to make it worth getting out of bed early. I am often out on Saturday nights having a good time. Getting home at 3am Sunday morning is nothing unusual for me.

For what it's worth, more traditional--liturgical--services are a bit more robust than that. The traditional Christian liturgy is divided into two halves, the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Altar. Throughout there are some hymns, not all in one chunk, but throughout the whole service, along with various types of prayers, the Scripture readings (an Old or New Testament reading, a Psalm, and the Gospel reading), the sermon usually doesn't go more than 15-20 minutes. The Peace comes after the Liturgy of the Word, we confess the Apostles' Creed, we recite the Lord's Prayer, the Lord's Supper is celebrated, the final prayers of the day, and a benediction and dismissal. At my church almost everyone stays around afterward for coffee and snacks, and we just talk and discuss the things going on in our lives, we pray for one another, care for one another, and that fellowship time after the service usually lasts another hour. So the service itself might only last an hour, but we fellowship for another hour after the service. But we aren't a big church, there is only an average of 20-30 people every week, including the children.

The traditional Liturgy, and the community fostered in a relatively small/moderate sized congregation, along with a deep love and commitment to God's word is a deeply good thing. I look forward to going to church, my needs are met. In God's Word and Sacraments, in the love and fellowship of the Body, in genuine people who care for others and want to follow Jesus. This is soul-medicine.

-CryptoLutheran