Part-time Pastor issue....doing the bare minimum?

[Paidiske]

I have to disagree.
If you are in a pastoral position whether it is part-time or full-time, if you are called to be a pastor, you should not limit your service to God based on how much money you are getting paid.

This is legalism.

No; it's self care.

None of us can work around the clock, every day, without a break. (God instituted the sabbath for a reason). All of us in ministry have to decide not to do things which it would be good and right to do, because we do not have enough time, enough energy, enough capacity. All of us are advised routinely to make sure we take a day off a week; that we take our annual leave; that we spend time with our families and doing things which take care of our own personal and emotional needs.

Why? Because if you don't do that, if you push too hard, and don't get adequate rest... you end up burnt out and no use to anybody. And that is all too common.

The part-time pastor is not overworked though. He holds a full-time job of course during the weekdays and he fulfills the pastoral job by attending all the staff meetings and services and delivers his sermons but he makes zero effort to shepherd his flock.

Sorry, we've already established that he works seven days a week. That's overworked. It's not sustainable. You need to accept that reality before you can take any constructive approach to dealing with the problems.

In fact, everyone would agree he doesn't even seem to know a flock exists. He has no interest to care for any members or to get to know them. Many have tried to reach out to him and his answer is "why?" or "I don't have any time". Something doesn't seem right about it for sure....doesn't matter what he is getting paid or not getting paid.....I've seen/heard of pastors who got no pay and still served the Lord everyday of their lives. He's still getting paid each month part-time salary so there is no excuse that he can't make some effort at least to try and care for his flock. To him, the flock doesn't exist.

I can understand why this is frustrating, but when he's saying he doesn't have time, he's telling the truth. It's not about the pay, but about the fact that one human being can only do so much.

If I were advising your church, I would suggest putting together a team of volunteers to do much of the pastoral work. Perhaps he could meet with them once a month or so for supervision, support and feedback; that would be much more sustainable than expecting him to do it all.

 

[seeker2122]

No; it's self care.

Self care does not exist in the Bible (self love does but that is different). Jesus and Paul only talk about self-sacrifice. We deny ourselves daily and pick up our cross to follow Jesus. Life isn't about comfort and living a healthy and comfortable life for Jesus. It is about suffering and sacrificing. Did Paul decide to slack off in his calling because he was stoned one too many times and needed to take care of himself?

I realized that he was also not in the right place. He once shared that he was in a "good place now in his life and felt comfortable". As soon as I heard that, I knew what it meant. One should not see comfort at the expense of your calling.

None of us can work around the clock, every day, without a break. (God instituted the sabbath for a reason). All of us in ministry have to decide not to do things which it would be good and right to do, because we do not have enough time, enough energy, enough capacity. All of us are advised routinely to make sure we take a day off a week; that we take our annual leave; that we spend time with our families and doing things which take care of our own personal and emotional needs.

What you say sounds good and reasonable but this also is a dangerous and slippery slope because the goal in life is not to find balance and manage your family life, social life, personal health, ministry life, etc. This is prosperity gospel. The mission is to find your calling in life and then to obey and follow it by sacrificing your life. It's probably too real and raw for most to want to hear and accept but that is why Jesus says in the end many will be called but few are chosen.

Why? Because if you don't do that, if you push too hard, and don't get adequate rest... you end up burnt out and no use to anybody. And that is all too common.

Sorry, we've already established that he works seven days a week. That's overworked. It's not sustainable. You need to accept that reality before you can take any constructive approach to dealing with the problems.

This is unacceptable. If he is a pastor, and he gives ZERO attention to his flock, it doesn't matter that he works a full-time job during the weekdays. Everyone works full-time during the weekdays, yet still finds time to watch youtube, netflix, or play video games. There is no excuse that you can't at least every try to show some effort that you care about your own congregation.

I can understand why this is frustrating, but when he's saying he doesn't have time, he's telling the truth. It's not about the pay, but about the fact that one human being can only do so much.

If I were advising your church, I would suggest putting together a team of volunteers to do much of the pastoral work. Perhaps he could meet with them once a month or so for supervision, support and feedback; that would be much more sustainable than expecting him to do it all.

I appreciate your angle that you really care about him. I do too. I think I may not have illustrated it clearly or accurately. When I say he's busy, I don't mean he works 14 hours a day for 7 days a week. He works the usual 40 hours a week give or take like any other person does. Plus he's doing part-time pastoring but it's not really pastoring if all he does is preach. He's a preacher then and not a pastor because he is not tending to his sheep.

People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

He's by no means "overworked". I appreciate your defense for him but I think you were thinking he was being overworked or overburdened. It's mostly his personality style. He is anti-social and just doesn't want to talk or meet with anyone unless it is the pastoral staff meetings or services.

 

[Paidiske]

Self care does not exist in the Bible (self love does but that is different). Jesus and Paul only talk about self-sacrifice. We deny ourselves daily and pick up our cross to follow Jesus. Life isn't about comfort and living a healthy and comfortable life for Jesus. It is about suffering and sacrificing. Did Paul decide to slack off in his calling because he was stoned one too many times and needed to take care of himself?

You know what is in the Bible? Sabbath. Rest. The priority of family. And so on.

Yes, there's a sacrificial aspect to ministry; that is real, and important, and not to be denied. But I'm telling you, as someone who lives this calling, you cannot do it if self-sacrifice is the only thing you pay attention to. Even Jesus went away to a quiet place to be by himself, rest and be with God on his own. That's not about "comfort," but it is about respecting our human limitations and needs.

This is unacceptable.

Then your church needs to find the money to pay him for more days a week so he can cut back his other work. It's either pay him for more time, or adjust your expectations according to what is reasonable for his actual situation.

If he is a pastor, and he gives ZERO attention to his flock, it doesn't matter that he works a full-time job during the weekdays. ...There is no excuse that you can't at least every try to show some effort that you care about your own congregation.

Look, it does sound as if he's reserved, or introverted, and that he could at least come out of his shell a bit after services or whatever.

But I'd say you don't know that he gives zero attention to his flock. I have many conversations with people that other people in the church never know about. And there may be other factors too; how often does he take funerals, for example? Funerals are a lot of (often unrecognised) pastoral work.

But I maintain that given that your church isn't even allowing for him to have one day off a week, you're in no position to expect anything more.

I think I may not have illustrated it clearly or accurately. When I say he's busy, I don't mean he works 14 hours a day for 7 days a week. He works the usual 40 hours a week give or take like any other person does.

Plus spends Saturdays preparing for Sunday. Plus takes Sunday services. Plus has meetings, admin, and so forth. I'd guess that you're underestimating what he actually does. Church admin alone (responding to email, phone calls, dealing with communications, etc) typically takes me the equivalent of a working day a week. That's probably what he's doing after his day job. (If you can't afford to pay a full time pastor, I'm guessing you also don't have an office person handling a lot of that).

People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

This is true. I'm not defending his personal style. But I'm saying expecting hours of visiting or pastoral phone calls, in his situation, is simply not reaonable.

He's by no means "overworked". I appreciate your defense for him but I think you were thinking he was being overworked or overburdened.

I still do! This guy doesn't get one day off a week! Do you allow him annual leave? Sick leave? Or is he expected to work without those things, either?

It's mostly his personality style. He is anti-social and just doesn't want to talk or meet with anyone unless it is the pastoral staff meetings or services.

And people wonder why pastors are quitting in droves. Unrealistic, unreasonable, and unsustainable expectations from congregations are a significant factor.

 

[seeker2122]

You know what is in the Bible? Sabbath. Rest. The priority of family. And so on.

Sabbath refers to resting in the light of honoring God and giving thanks and remembering Him who gave us all we have.
It doesn't refer to humans to be complacent, lazy, and enjoy a holiday. I do believe in rest as well. But again, I don't think you
understood what I described in our part-time pastor's description. He's not overworked to the point he can't even make an effort
to get to know his sheep. I am actually quite stunned that you as a minister think there is nothing wrong with a pastor who doesn't
want to care for his sheep for the sake of taking care of his own well-being. This is anti-biblical. The bible always teaches us to love others
first and ourselves second. To put others ahead of our own interests. Self-sacrifice just as Christ did.

Yes, there's a sacrificial aspect to ministry; that is real, and important, and not to be denied. But I'm telling you, as someone who lives this calling, you cannot do it if self-sacrifice is the only thing you pay attention to. Even Jesus went away to a quiet place to be by himself, rest and be with God on his own. That's not about "comfort," but it is about respecting our human limitations and needs.

Then your church needs to find the money to pay him for more days a week so he can cut back his other work. It's either pay him for more time, or adjust your expectations according to what is reasonable for his actual situation.

Yes, I agree. The church needs to find a way to hire a full-time pastor if the congregation is suffering.
I don't fully place the blame on him, although he is not exempt from responsibility. He DOES need to pastor his flock even if he is
only a part-time pastor. But the church itself is the ones who make the decision on how much money to spend and they ultimately
carry the responsibility.

Look, it does sound as if he's reserved, or introverted, and that he could at least come out of his shell a bit after services or whatever.

But I'd say you don't know that he gives zero attention to his flock. I have many conversations with people that other people in the church never know about. And there may be other factors too; how often does he take funerals, for example? Funerals are a lot of (often unrecognised) pastoral work.

I do know. I'm in this church lol. With all due respect, comparing me and you, I am an eyewitness and you are far-removed and detached witness of my testimony so there is no way you would know more than me about him. I've spoken to other members privately and they all confirmed the same thing. They told me they try to ask him question, try to meet with him, and he always replies the same, "why?" or "sorry I can't I'm busy".

Eyewitness accounts.

But I maintain that given that your church isn't even allowing for him to have one day off a week, you're in no position to expect anything more.

He only serves on Sundays. That means he has 6 days off from church. What he chooses to do in those 6 days is up to him and not part of his church duties. So in fact, you are wrong. The church doesn't make him work 7 days a week. Again, you are mistaken. I feel that you keep thinking he has so much work that he has no time for anything. I already said he works 40 hours a week like every other person on this planet who works full-time. Does that mean you don't have time for your children because you work 40 hours a week job? No. That would be negligence. You have to make time for your children and family. He's a single man with no children. He owns pets so clearly if he has more time to care for his pets than he does for his own people at church, there is an issue. I'm surprised you don't see this.

Plus spends Saturdays preparing for Sunday. Plus takes Sunday services. Plus has meetings, admin, and so forth. I'd guess that you're underestimating what he actually does. Church admin alone (responding to email, phone calls, dealing with communications, etc) typically takes me the equivalent of a working day a week. That's probably what he's doing after his day job. (If you can't afford to pay a full time pastor, I'm guessing you also don't have an office person handling a lot of that).

This is true. Saturdays he attends a 1.5 hour service and then after that he works on his sermon in the office. I know this because I am there lol.
I try to spend time with him either before or after but he shows no interest or will say he has to work on his sermon.

Of course, every staff member has to partake in staff meetings. If other part-timer pastors are able to tend to their flock, why can't he? There is no excuse. We're not saying he should devote 40 hours a week to individual attention to the members. We're asking can't he spare 1 hour or 2 hours a week? That's all. If he can't even spare that, then you know there is an issue. No excuses you make for him can justify his lack of offering even 1 or 2 hours a week total to his flock because right now he gives 0 minutes per week.

Not acceptable even for part-time.

This is true. I'm not defending his personal style. But I'm saying expecting hours of visiting or pastoral phone calls, in his situation, is simply not reaonable.

I still do! This guy doesn't get one day off a week! Do you allow him annual leave? Sick leave? Or is he expected to work without those things, either?

And people wonder why pastors are quitting in droves. Unrealistic, unreasonable, and unsustainable expectations from congregations are a significant factor.

You are describing a full-time pastor. Full-time pastors are overworked and overburdened. Part-time pastors are not. While their pay sucks, they also have the entire week to decide what to do with their time. It's not unrealistic. He's part-time lol. He has more time than anyone even the congregants themselves since they all have to work full-time jobs. He works his own full-time job + part-time as pastor so he's doubling his salary but not giving any effort to tend to the flock except just deliver a sermon and show up to mandatory staff meetings/events. That's a given...everyone has to do that, so you can't say he is overworked lol. If he is overworked, it is because of his own choosing and his own full-time weekday job, not the church as he is just part-time.

Everyone has 24 hours in a day. If he works 8 hours a day at his secular job, that means he has 8 hours left for sleep and 8 hours left for leisure. In that 8 hours of his leisure time each day, he can't find time to tend to his pastoral duties? Unacceptable.
Tell me what he is so busy doing in those 8 hours a day of leisure time he has? Watching netflix, playing videos games, and reading sci-fi?

Again, I say, if he has enough time and energy to take care of his pets, but not a single minute to give to his church members, then think about that. Think real hard about that.

 

[Paidiske]

I think you're completely out of touch with the reality of his working life. But it seems like nothing I say will convince you that working two jobs, without a day off, does not leave room for working more! So I'll leave you to it, and just reiterate my suggestion that approaching your board (or equivalent) with constructive suggestions is more likely to have a good outcome than trying to scapegoat your pastor for an unworkable situation.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Before I say anything else, I want to make clear I care about and love my part-time Pastor. I do want him to succeed, do well,
be healthy, be respected, and treated with love. But here is the questions I have.

He's not a seasoned pastor/veteran. He's in his early 40s, this is his first pastoral gig, but he has experience in leading worship
and obviously having his MDiv from seminary.

His sermons are not "inspirational" but they do have its purposes in that he gives good historical and contextual information about the Scriptures.
He doesn't use any personal anecdotes that reflects or shares the works of God in his life. So he does lack that sort of inspirational content
and think of him more like a "bookworm" of the Bible. His sermons are more like lectures and seminars of bible study than say motivational/inspirational
sermons. Of course there is nothing wrong with different styles of sermons. They all have their usefulness. Sometimes too much topical sermons without
much biblical content is poor and the flipside, only giving historical/contextual info and exposition of the text but not imparting any inspiration or
revelatory transformation can become very dull and mundane.

His personality is also not the kind of pastor who greets people, initiates anyone, and in curious or inquisitive. In fact, he's the opposite. He keeps to himself,
comes to church to give the sermon and leaves with very little interaction with anyone. There is no "shepherding" or "pastoral care" per se. But then again,
he's also a "part-time" position so some might say "what do you expect from a part-time salary?" Of course it doesn't give him the license to be lazy
and uninvolved with his ministry. But he doesn't seem to do or has any interest to do anything more than his requirements which is just to prepare a sermon
each sunday, attend pastoral staff meetings and functions. That's it.

Now, I still love this guy. I care about him. I want to befriend him, get to know him more, and encourage him, but he's the pastor and I'm just a congregant.
How do we tell a pastor that maybe he's not really a good pastor but he's a good biblical scholar? Do we just tell him openly and honestly that he's just
not a good pastor and we have to let him go?

This is tough because I can relate to the introverted aspect. I think he should do 1-on-1's with people, and also be careful to compliment as well as critique so as not to discourage.

He doesn't sound invested. He has a life outside the church and he is part time. Introverts are not easy to get to know but they can have a wealth of value once you are close to them. It could be something as simple as the lead pastor or just anyone at church getting to know him. It will give him a reason to stay and talk. Be careful to tell him as a congregant that he isn't a good fit, i mean he is young and is still learning. My main pastor was very legalistic when he first taught. It takes time and experience. He could just need encouragement and motivation to give sermons from personal experience. Find a way to be encouraging in the critique and say something like "the sermons you give are great, and what would make it even better would be some personal experience thrown in the mix" Do little by little, see if anything changes. Start with getting someone who genuinely wants to get to know him AND he already has some relation with at church to become friends as well as give the advice i just mentioned. If he does even just one thing different it shows he's willing to change. Pray that spark into a flame. See if it catches and if it does you may have a great pastor in the making.

 

[port41919]

Before I say anything else, I want to make clear I care about and love my part-time Pastor. I do want him to succeed, do well,
be healthy, be respected, and treated with love. But here is the questions I have.

He's not a seasoned pastor/veteran. He's in his early 40s, this is his first pastoral gig, but he has experience in leading worship
and obviously having his MDiv from seminary.

His sermons are not "inspirational" but they do have its purposes in that he gives good historical and contextual information about the Scriptures.
He doesn't use any personal anecdotes that reflects or shares the works of God in his life. So he does lack that sort of inspirational content
and think of him more like a "bookworm" of the Bible. His sermons are more like lectures and seminars of bible study than say motivational/inspirational
sermons. Of course there is nothing wrong with different styles of sermons. They all have their usefulness. Sometimes too much topical sermons without
much biblical content is poor and the flipside, only giving historical/contextual info and exposition of the text but not imparting any inspiration or
revelatory transformation can become very dull and mundane.

His personality is also not the kind of pastor who greets people, initiates anyone, and in curious or inquisitive. In fact, he's the opposite. He keeps to himself,
comes to church to give the sermon and leaves with very little interaction with anyone. There is no "shepherding" or "pastoral care" per se. But then again,
he's also a "part-time" position so some might say "what do you expect from a part-time salary?" Of course it doesn't give him the license to be lazy
and uninvolved with his ministry. But he doesn't seem to do or has any interest to do anything more than his requirements which is just to prepare a sermon
each sunday, attend pastoral staff meetings and functions. That's it.

Now, I still love this guy. I care about him. I want to befriend him, get to know him more, and encourage him, but he's the pastor and I'm just a congregant.
How do we tell a pastor that maybe he's not really a good pastor but he's a good biblical scholar? Do we just tell him openly and honestly that he's just
not a good pastor and we have to let him go?

I thought churches had elders for this type of thing. I think he needs a mentor (another pastor) to help him. It would be unkind to tell him he is not a good pastor. You clearly are unhappy with him. It may be time to find another church. From what you state, the pastor is lacking a deep relationship with God. Otherwise he would be getting to know his congregation by making himself available. God bless!

 

[port41919]

This is tough because I can relate to the introverted aspect. I think he should do 1-on-1's with people, and also be careful to compliment as well as critique so as not to discourage.

He doesn't sound invested. He has a life outside the church and he is part time. Introverts are not easy to get to know but they can have a wealth of value once you are close to them. It could be something as simple as the lead pastor or just anyone at church getting to know him. It will give him a reason to stay and talk. Be careful to tell him as a congregant that he isn't a good fit, i mean he is young and is still learning. My main pastor was very legalistic when he first taught. It takes time and experience. He could just need encouragement and motivation to give sermons from personal experience. Find a way to be encouraging in the critique and say something like "the sermons you give are great, and what would make it even better would be some personal experience thrown in the mix" Do little by little, see if anything changes. Start with getting someone who genuinely wants to get to know him AND he already has some relation with at church to become friends as well as give the advice i just mentioned. If he does even just one thing different it shows he's willing to change. Pray that spark into a flame. See if it catches and if it does you may have a great pastor in the making.

Introversion is not a reason to be unfriendly. I am an introvert of which there are four types. Yes, we like our space but we, who are followers of God, care about people. We can also be quite talkative at times due to our passion for the Lord.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Before I say anything else, I want to make clear I care about and love my part-time Pastor. I do want him to succeed, do well,
be healthy, be respected, and treated with love. But here is the questions I have.

He's not a seasoned pastor/veteran. He's in his early 40s, this is his first pastoral gig, but he has experience in leading worship
and obviously having his MDiv from seminary.

His sermons are not "inspirational" but they do have its purposes in that he gives good historical and contextual information about the Scriptures.
He doesn't use any personal anecdotes that reflects or shares the works of God in his life. So he does lack that sort of inspirational content
and think of him more like a "bookworm" of the Bible. His sermons are more like lectures and seminars of bible study than say motivational/inspirational
sermons. Of course there is nothing wrong with different styles of sermons. They all have their usefulness. Sometimes too much topical sermons without
much biblical content is poor and the flipside, only giving historical/contextual info and exposition of the text but not imparting any inspiration or
revelatory transformation can become very dull and mundane.

His personality is also not the kind of pastor who greets people, initiates anyone, and in curious or inquisitive. In fact, he's the opposite. He keeps to himself,
comes to church to give the sermon and leaves with very little interaction with anyone. There is no "shepherding" or "pastoral care" per se. But then again,
he's also a "part-time" position so some might say "what do you expect from a part-time salary?" Of course it doesn't give him the license to be lazy
and uninvolved with his ministry. But he doesn't seem to do or has any interest to do anything more than his requirements which is just to prepare a sermon
each sunday, attend pastoral staff meetings and functions. That's it.

Now, I still love this guy. I care about him. I want to befriend him, get to know him more, and encourage him, but he's the pastor and I'm just a congregant.
How do we tell a pastor that maybe he's not really a good pastor but he's a good biblical scholar? Do we just tell him openly and honestly that he's just
not a good pastor and we have to let him go?

The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated in the modern church. "pastor" is mentioned twice in the NT. The church is the body. There is not such thing as "just" a congregant. All members have a place and a role to play. The idea that Christians can contract out their lives to a paid professional is unbiblical.

Pastors should be teachers and teachers should be pastors, at least within the local church. There is the ministry of teacher to the body which has less pastoral responsibility. Elders should also be able to teach. Sharing the load as God intended would go a long way to ensuring that the church became mature. There should be no such thing as pastor burnout.

Teaching is a vital and undervalued ministry. If people are taught correctly, many troubles will be avoided. Too many pastors are like nursemaids dealing with spiritual infants. Christians have to grow up.

Perhaps God is saying that the congregation should be more involved. Surely you have people who are mature enough to care for others? And why not share your concerns with the man? I know what it's like. I am a teacher by inclination and calling. I realised early on that I was objective to the point of being hard and harsh. I prayed for a heart for people so that I help them with their problems as well as teach them fundamentals. Maybe this man needs to be aware of his limitations so that he can pray about them. And others pray with him. He's human and maybe needs encouragement himself.

Nothing is too hard for God. He can transform the man.

 

[The Liturgist]

In that 8 hours of his leisure time each day, he can't find time to tend to his pastoral duties? Unacceptable.

Part time clergy are effectively volunteers, serving congregations which cannot pay for full time clergy. As my friend @Paidiske said, you are quite likely out of touch with his situation.

Consider this: the (at most) eight hours you are talking about are leisure time. Your pastor needs to spend most or all of that time eating, resting, and spending time with his family. Otherwise he will experience burnout.

 

[The Liturgist]

The role of pastor is greatly exaggerated in the modern church. "pastor" is mentioned twice in the NT. The church is the body. There is not such thing as "just" a congregant. All members have a place and a role to play. The idea that Christians can contract out their lives to a paid professional is unbiblical.

Pastors should be teachers and teachers should be pastors, at least within the local church. There is the ministry of teacher to the body which has less pastoral responsibility. Elders should also be able to teach. Sharing the load as God intended would go a long way to ensuring that the church became mature. There should be no such thing as pastor burnout.

Teaching is a vital and undervalued ministry. If people are taught correctly, many troubles will be avoided. Too many pastors are like nursemaids dealing with spiritual infants. Christians have to grow up.

Perhaps God is saying that the congregation should be more involved. Surely you have people who are mature enough to care for others? And why not share your concerns with the man? I know what it's like. I am a teacher by inclination and calling. I realised early on that I was objective to the point of being hard and harsh. I prayed for a heart for people so that I help them with their problems as well as teach them fundamentals. Maybe this man needs to be aware of his limitations so that he can pray about them. And others pray with him. He's human and maybe needs encouragement himself.

Nothing is too hard for God. He can transform the man.

Or, or, try this on for size: Presbyters (elders), also known as priests*, should teach, preach and most importantly, administer the sacraments, assisted by deacons in the ministry of the Eucharist and deaconesses in the ministry of Baptism, and subdeacons and readers in the reading of scripture and the conduct of services, and where there are multiple parish churches affiliated together, they should ideally form a diocese and be administered by an Episkopos (superintendent), who should preside over the liturgy at each parish in his diocese, assisted by the parish priest. And depending on the parish, if it cannot afford a full time priest it should use a deacon to handle most pastoral care.

*The word priest is the traditional English rendering of presbyter. The phrase “priesthood of all believers” results from the unfortunate translation of Kohanim, Sacerdos and Hierus as Priest. What the priesthood of all believers really means is that all Christians have the intercessory ability and vocation that in the Church when it operated according to the forms of ancient Judaism before the Incarnation of God the Son and the descent and indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, was limited to the Kohanim, descendants of Aaron from the tribe of Levi.

 

[The Liturgist]

I can understand why this is frustrating, but when he's saying he doesn't have time, he's telling the truth. It's not about the pay, but about the fact that one human being can only do so much.

Exactly. This point I felt compelled to make as well. Assuming he is lucky enough to have a forty hour workweek, which is increasingly a luxury for many people, he still needs those eight hours (or probably, less than eight hours) to unwind and spend time with his family. And in most churches, the pastor has to celebrate midweek liturgies at least three or four times per year (Christmas Eve and/or Christmas Day, Holy Thursday and/or Good Friday and Ascension Thursday).

 

[The Liturgist]

Self care does not exist in the Bible (self love does but that is different). Jesus and Paul only talk about self-sacrifice. We deny ourselves daily and pick up our cross to follow Jesus. Life isn't about comfort and living a healthy and comfortable life for Jesus. It is about suffering and sacrificing. Did Paul decide to slack off in his calling because he was stoned one too many times and needed to take care of himself?

I realized that he was also not in the right place. He once shared that he was in a "good place now in his life and felt comfortable". As soon as I heard that, I knew what it meant. One should not see comfort at the expense of your calling.



What you say sounds good and reasonable but this also is a dangerous and slippery slope because the goal in life is not to find balance and manage your family life, social life, personal health, ministry life, etc. This is prosperity gospel. The mission is to find your calling in life and then to obey and follow it by sacrificing your life. It's probably too real and raw for most to want to hear and accept but that is why Jesus says in the end many will be called but few are chosen.



This is unacceptable. If he is a pastor, and he gives ZERO attention to his flock, it doesn't matter that he works a full-time job during the weekdays. Everyone works full-time during the weekdays, yet still finds time to watch youtube, netflix, or play video games. There is no excuse that you can't at least every try to show some effort that you care about your own congregation.


I appreciate your angle that you really care about him. I do too. I think I may not have illustrated it clearly or accurately. When I say he's busy, I don't mean he works 14 hours a day for 7 days a week. He works the usual 40 hours a week give or take like any other person does. Plus he's doing part-time pastoring but it's not really pastoring if all he does is preach. He's a preacher then and not a pastor because he is not tending to his sheep.

People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

He's by no means "overworked". I appreciate your defense for him but I think you were thinking he was being overworked or overburdened. It's mostly his personality style. He is anti-social and just doesn't want to talk or meet with

anyone unless it is the pastoral staff meetings or services.

Hypothetically, rather than complaining about your pastor on an Internet forum, why don’t you offer to help as a lay servant, lay minister, reader or deacon/deaconess?

In my experience, most churches without full time pastors, members of the congregation share with the part time presbyter the burdens of pastoral care.

 

[look4hope]

Hi.
This sounds similar to whats happening in my small church. Our fairly new pastor is very young. First gig as well. He is 30...although super friendly, he just seems to be out of touch to get people involved in church activities etc.
He’s personality is more casual. Our previous pastor was a bit more serious but he engaged and participated in group activities with the congregation.

I can’t seem to feel comfortable enough to talk to him about things as much as I used to our last pastor.

 

[The Liturgist]

Hmm. It's hard to know what just from what you've posted here where the problem actually is. I would guess - and it is a guess - that it's a bit on both sides. That is, he probably has some growing to do, and the congregation probably needs to adjust their expectations (particularly given the part-time thing).

Frankly, he sounds like he's very introverted. Introverts can make good ministers, but our style tends to be different. More one-on-one, less big gatherings. As an introvert I found I needed to adjust the way I worked because people sometimes felt I was distant or uninterested, but it was more that my preferred way of interacting wasn't so visible. Some constructive feedback to him might be helpful here, that people are feeling neglected.

It also depends what fraction of part-time we're talking. On, say, three days a week, that's enough time to prepare and take services, and deal with absolutely essential administration, and any crises. That's about it. If you want more than that, including more pastoral conversations, you need to fund more time.

If I were you I'd ask to meet with him. Go with a list of the things you'd like him to know you're not happy with, but offer them in a way that's, "Hey, I really care about and want to support you growing in this role, here are some things I don't know if I'm right to be concerned about, how do you see them?" And really listen to what he says in reply. (What I'm saying is, let it be a discussion not an attack or an ambush). And be prepared to adjust your own thinking or expectations.

Mismatch between what a congregation expects and what a minister can deliver can be incredibly stressful and even distressing to a minister. We hate to feel that we're failing people, not caring for them, or letting them down, and it can eat away at you. So go gently.

Oh, I also am an introvert; I had no idea you were introverted, so that is something we share in common besides our love for Rachmaninoff’s setting of All Night Vigils, and Cistercian aesthetics.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Or, or, try this on for size: Presbyters (elders), also known as priests*, should teach, preach and most importantly, administer the sacraments, assisted by deacons in the ministry of the Eucharist and deaconesses in the ministry of Baptism, and subdeacons and readers in the reading of scripture and the conduct of services, and where there are multiple parish churches affiliated together, they should ideally form a diocese and be administered by an Episkopos (superintendent), who should preside over the liturgy at each parish in his diocese, assisted by the parish priest. And depending on the parish, if it cannot afford a full time priest it should use a deacon to handle most pastoral care.

*The word priest is the traditional English rendering of presbyter. The phrase “priesthood of all believers” results from the unfortunate translation of Kohanim, Sacerdos and Hierus as Priest. What the priesthood of all believers really means is that all Christians have the intercessory ability and vocation that in the Church when it operated according to the forms of ancient Judaism before the Incarnation of God the Son and the descent and indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, was limited to the Kohanim, descendants of Aaron from the tribe of Levi.

I don't accept the importance of sacraments that others place on them. Lord Jesus said it is truth that sets people free, not ceremonies. There is not a whole lot of truth and therefore not so much freedom in the modern church. I respect those denominations that are focused on truth. I often go to a local anglican church. I'm not big on infant baptism, but the pastor (as he calls himself) preaches a good word. I agree to disagree on other doctrines. Arguing never saved anyone.

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't accept the importance of sacraments that others place on them. Lord Jesus said it is truth that sets people free, not ceremonies.

Our Lord said “The truth shall set you free.” He did not say “The truth shall set you free, not ceremonies.” Rather, in Matthew 28:19 he commanded that all nations be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and at the Last Supper as recorded in the Synoptics and 1 Corinthians 11:1-27, regarding the Eucharist, “Do this in remembrance of me,” which corresponds with what he says about the Eucharist in John 6.

There is not a whole lot of truth and therefore not so much freedom in the modern church. I respect those denominations that are focused on truth. I often go to a local anglican church. I'm not big on infant baptism, but the pastor (as he calls himself) preaches a good word. I agree to disagree on other doctrines. Arguing never saved anyone.

I agree.

 

[seeker2122]

Hypothetically, rather than complaining about your pastor on an Internet forum, why don’t you offer to help as a lay servant, lay minister, reader or deacon/deaconess?

In my experience, most churches without full time pastors, members of the congregation share with the part time presbyter the burdens of pastoral care.

You don't know my church well haha.

I do believe everyone could step up and try to fill the void the pastor is not filling, but there is only so much you can do unless you are young pastors in training and this is a great feeding ground to almost hijack a ministry and cut your teeth.

But if you try to do anything too much, then they will reprimand you for acting like you are the pastor lol. The problem is quite easy to see here. Every church needs shepherding/pastoral care or some sense of care and nurturing of the members. If no one is caring or nurturing the members, including the pastor, then it's easy to see where the blame goes first. Pastor.

 

[seeker2122]

Exactly. This point I felt compelled to make as well. Assuming he is lucky enough to have a forty hour workweek, which is increasingly a luxury for many people, he still needs those eight hours (or probably, less than eight hours) to unwind and spend time with his family. And in most churches, the pastor has to celebrate midweek liturgies at least three or four times per year (Christmas Eve and/or Christmas Day, Holy Thursday and/or Good Friday and Ascension Thu

I disagree. The situations you are describing are of full-time pastors who have full-time ministry duties, family life, etc.
We're talking about a part-time pastor. He is unmarried. Regardless of what he does during the weekday, that is his business.
But even as a part-time pastor, I've never heard of a pastor just giving a sermon on sundays and having zero involvement with the ministry.
You can't be half pregnant. If you are called to be a Pastor, doesn't matter if you are full time or part time, you should be praying, nurturing, talking to your members, etc. You can't give the excuse that since I am part-time, my love is only part-time, and my love for Christ is only part-time lol. If all you do is just preach, then his title should be, "guest preacher Sundays only available for 1 hour".

There is nothing else in his role that resembles that of a pastor. Then you are not a pastor. You are a guest speaker.

 

[hislegacy]

I disagree. The situations you are describing are of full-time pastors who have full-time ministry duties, family life, etc.
We're talking about a part-time pastor. He is unmarried. Regardless of what he does during the weekday, that is his business.
But even as a part-time pastor, I've never heard of a pastor just giving a sermon on sundays and having zero involvement with the ministry.
You can't be half pregnant. If you are called to be a Pastor, doesn't matter if you are full time or part time, you should be praying, nurturing, talking to your members, etc. You can't give the excuse that since I am part-time, my love is only part-time, and my love for Christ is only part-time lol. If all you do is just preach, then his title should be, "guest preacher Sundays only available for 1 hour".

There is nothing else in his role that resembles that of a pastor. Then you are not a pastor. You are a guest speaker.

Have you offered to help him? Carry some of the load?

I have been bi vocational a number of times working five nine hour days a week and preaching Wednesdays and Sundays. It takes a team of ministers to run a church.