What is it that distances Russia from the West?

[Landon Caeli]

...Maybe they could teach the EU how to suppress the populace better. That's the kind of influence Russia brings to the table.

Sounds delightful.

 

[Love365]

...So they can play along with indifference?

Essentially "we" would pay them to turn the EU into a circus show. That's not wise.

Giving Russia seats would break the taboo of working with Russia.

People might stop seeing Russia as always bad.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Giving Russia seats would break the taboo of working with Russia.

People might stop seeing Russia as always bad.

How do we know it's taboo, and not reality? How is Russia "good" in any way? Please state some examples if anyone is to take this seriously.

 

[Love365]

How do we know it's taboo, and not reality? How is Russia "good" in any way? Please state some examples if anyone is to take this seriously.

Russia makes beautiful art.

Russia invented satellites, solar panels, and roller coasters.

Russia invented the video game Tetris.

Russian Christmas lights.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Russia makes beautiful art.

Russia invented satellites, solar panels, and roller coasters.

Russia invented the video game Tetris.

Russian Christmas lights.

I was referring to the Russian government... It would be the Russian government who holds parliamentary seats if they were admitted into the EU.

How is the Russian government "good"?

 

[Desk trauma]

If you want Russia to have democracy and free speech,
seats in European Parliament might help.

You have that one backwards, those are conditions of membership.

 

[eleos1954]

It's not about NATO, it's about Ukraine. Ukraine has been abused for years under the Russian and Soviet system, and finally they were given their independence from the Soviet Union in the 1990's. The people are tired of being told what their foreign policy should be, especially dictated by their former oppressors at the point of a gun.

What is the word proxy war mean?

A proxy war occurs when a major power (in this case America) instigates or plays a major role in supporting and directing a party to a conflict but does only a small portion of the actual fighting itself (so far).

It fits the definition.

 

[eleos1954]

Yeah, that's what sovereign nations get to do. They don't have to ask permission to form alliances. Neither did Latvia or Lithuania, for that matter.

It's Russian propaganda to say that NATO is inherently an aggressor. NATO was formed to defend western Europe against potential aggression by the Soviets. Defense is not aggression.

What is the word proxy war mean?

A proxy war occurs when a major power instigates or plays a major role (in this case America) in supporting and directing a party to a conflict but does only a small portion of the actual fighting itself (so far).

It fits the definition.

 

[eleos1954]

I know about that, but those times were long, long over. Nobody had any inkling to wage any kind of war against Russia. We had befriended them since. And it could have been a thing of the past, left to history.

...But Russia rekindled the fire, by digging up dead bones.

Doesn't it seem odd ..... Ukraine wanted to join NATO .... but the US delayed this citing Ukraine had a corrupt government (like we don't) and wouldn't allow it until they ("cleaned themselves up") ??? If, they had been allowed to join back then ..... there would have been a military presence put there to put Russia in the position to think twice about invading.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Ukraine has no "sovereignty. Since 2014, it has been under a puppet regime installed by the US after a coup. Ergo, per international law, the Russians are within their rights to deploy troops there if their security interests demand it - especially in support of people who have long achieved de facto independence from Kiev. The bitter irony is that the voices who call most loudly for the defense of the suppose sovereignty of the Ukraine oppose the very real sovereignty of the people of Donbas. Just as 2014 they condemned Russia's bloodless annexation of the Crimea, while condoning the Ukranian army's bloody carnage in Donbas.

This is straight-up, unadulterated, Russian propaganda. It could have been written in the Kremlin itself.

I hope you are compensated for your efforts "Soldier". It would be a shame to sell out to authoritarian oppressors and not get paid.

 

[eleos1954]

Sorry, which head of state invaded Ukraine? It certainly wasn’t the King of NATO.

Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine had the intent of joining NATO .... I'm not defending Russia's invasion, just looking at it from Russia's perspective, also along with that about 38% or so of Ukraine were Russians living in Ukraine.

This is a proxy war ....

A proxy war is an armed conflict between two states or non-state actors, one or both of which act at the instigation or on behalf of other parties that are not directly involved in the hostilities

Why NATO was formed ....

Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union.

 

[RDKirk]

Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine had the intent of joining NATO .... I'm not defending Russia's invasion, just looking at it from Russia's perspective, also along with that about 38% or so of Ukraine were Russians living in Ukraine.

This is a proxy war ....

A proxy war is an armed conflict between two states or non-state actors, one or both of which act at the instigation or on behalf of other parties that are not directly involved in the hostilities

Why NATO was formed ....

Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union.

Russia demonstrated that its intent in this regard is no different from that of the USSR.

They have even driven Finland and Sweden--people who have been fiercely independent--into making a bid to join NATO.

Do you think these people are stupid? They're looking directly over their borders at Russia. Do you think they don't have a better read on Russia's intentions than we do over here?

 

[Larniavc]

Russia invaded Ukraine because Ukraine had the intent of joining NATO .... I'm not defending Russia's invasion, just looking at it from Russia's perspective, also along with that about 38% or so of Ukraine were Russians living in Ukraine.

This is a proxy war ....

A proxy war is an armed conflict between two states or non-state actors, one or both of which act at the instigation or on behalf of other parties that are not directly involved in the hostilities

Why NATO was formed ....

Its purpose was to secure peace in Europe, to promote cooperation among its members and to guard their freedom – all of this in the context of countering the threat posed at the time by the Soviet Union.

Rubbish. It was invaded because Putin wants the return of the Russian Empire. Russia has always coveted it's neighbours. The only reason Putin despises NATO is because if ex USSR nations join they cannot be added to the Russian Empire.

 

[eleos1954]

Rubbish. It was invaded because Putin wants the return of the Russian Empire. Russia has always coveted it's neighbours. The only reason Putin despises NATO is because if ex USSR nations join they cannot be added to the Russian Empire.

It is the ultimate purpose of NATO to take Russia down (if need be) .... so Russia sees NATO as a threat to their sovereignty .... so yeah .... if Russia adds to their nation by overtaking other non-NATO nations .... then they (Russia) are eliminating the possibility of them becoming a member of NATO.

The main purpose of forming NATO was/is to defend against Russia (or eliminate it if needed) ..... and because of that Russia sees NATO-bound countries as a threat to them (of which Ukraine was moving towards) ....Ukraine formally adopted a constitutional amendment in 2019 committing to pursue NATO membership.

Even now Ukraine is being considered into admission into NATO, if that happens .... then boots on the ground will happen and all out war with Russia will happen ..... (World War III)

 

[Landon Caeli]

It is the ultimate purpose of NATO to take Russia down (if need be) .... so Russia sees NATO as a threat to their sovereignty .... so yeah .... if Russia adds to their nation by overtaking other non-NATO nations .... then they (Russia) are eliminating the possibility of them becoming a member of NATO.

The main purpose of forming NATO was/is to defend against Russia (or eliminate it if needed) ..... and because of that Russia sees NATO-bound countries as a threat to them (of which Ukraine was moving towards) ....Ukraine formally adopted a constitutional amendment in 2019 committing to pursue NATO membership.

Even now Ukraine is being considered into admission into NATO, if that happens .... then boots on the ground will happen and all out war with Russia will happen ..... (World War III)

Are you sure that the purpose isn't actually to protect the world from Russia?

I'd say NATO is exclusively a defensive organization... Where Russia is a militarily aggressive empire.

 

[eleos1954]

Are you sure that the purpose isn't actually to protect the world from Russia?

I'd say NATO is exclusively a defensive organization... Where Russia is a militarily aggressive empire.

Members of NATO see it that way .... however Russia does not ..... yes and NATO was originally formed because of Russia, I stated that. However, have been many wars NATO engaged in where Russia was not involved at all.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Members of NATO see it that way .... however Russia does not ..... yes and NATO was originally formed because of Russia, I stated that. However, have been many wars NATO engaged in where Russia was not involved at all.

Russia knows that NATO is a defensive organization, but their state-owned media lies to the Russian population and says otherwise. That's not our fault. It's the Russian government's fault for lying.

Russia lies way too much:

Lavrov claims Ukrainians launched war against Russia, and gets laughed at the G20 conference in India

 

[eleos1954]

Russia knows that NATO is a defensive organization, but their state-owned media lies to the Russian population and says otherwise. That's not out fault. It's the Russian government's fault.

NATO membership for Ukraine. That would be a hostile act toward Russia,” Putin warned U.S. Undersecretary for Political Affairs William J. Burns, who is now director of the CIA, in the weeks leading up to NATO’s 2008 Bucharest Summit.

I'm just saying ..... that's how Russia views NATO.

 

[Landon Caeli]

NATO membership for Ukraine. That would be a hostile act toward Russia,” Putin warned U.S. Undersecretary for Political Affairs William J. Burns, who is now director of the CIA, in the weeks leading up to NATO’s 2008 Bucharest Summit.

I'm just saying ..... that's how Russia views NATO.

Yes, these are the lies that Russia proclaims. Realistically, Russia does not view NATO as a threat, but rather as an obstruction of their desire to colonize all of Europe.

 

[eleos1954]

Yes, these are the lies that Russia proclaims. Realistically, Russia does not view Nato as a threat, but rather as an obstruction of their desire to colonize all of Europe.

That's your perspective ..... not theirs.