Towards a biblical view of universalism

[Michie]

‘There are two Biblical ways of looking at salvation. One says that only Christian believers will be saved: the other says that all men will be saved. Since the latter is more loving, it must be true, because God is love.’ This argument (though the words are mine) is regularly used by university teachers of my acquaintance to persuade undergraduates to accept ‘universalism’ in its most common form—the belief, that is, that God will save all men individually. It explicitly plays off passages of scripture which appear to support it (Romans 5:12–21, 11:32, 1 Tim. 2:4, 4:10, John 12:32, etc.) against those which quite clearly do not (Romans 2:6–16, Matt. 25:31–46, John 3:18, 36, 5:29, etc.). I have argued against this view elsewhere, at a more systematic level.1Here I want to look in more detail at the biblical evidence.

The proponents of universalism admit very readily that their doctrine conflicts with much biblical teaching. What they are attempting, however, is Sachkritik, the criticism (and rejection) of one part of scripture on the basis of another. We leave aside the implications of this for a doctrine of scripture itself. More important for our purpose is the fact that the great majority of the ‘hard sayings’, the passages which warn most clearly and unmistakeably of eternal punishment, are found on the lips of Jesus Himself. This is the point at which the usual argument comes dangerously close to cutting off the branch it sits on. It says ‘God is love’: but we know that principally (since it is not self-evidently true) through the life and death of Jesus Christ. We cannot use that life and death as an appeal against itself—which is precisely what happens if we say that, because God is love, the nature of salvation is not as it is revealed in the teaching of Jesus and in the cross itself, the place where God has provided the one way of salvation. (If there were other ‘ways of salvation’, the cross would have been unnecessary.) I begin here because we need to be reminded of the uncompromising warnings which the evangelists place on the lips of Jesus Himself (and if they were creations of the early church, they are quite unlike anything else that the early church created). Nor is there any tension between statements of God’s love and warnings of God’s judgment. If this is a problem for us, it certainly was not for them: compare John 3:16–21. Perhaps this is why many advocates of universalism abandon the attempt to argue their case from the Bible at all.

Continued below.

Towards a biblical view of universalism

‘There are two Biblical ways of looking at salvation. One says that only Christian believers will be saved: the other says that all men will be saved. Since the latter is more loving, it must be true, because God is love.’ This argument (though the words are mine) is regularly used by university...

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Michie]

 

[Michie]

Brad Jersak-

A God Without Wrath? – No Other Foundation

Some heresies wear their heretical nature like a big scarlet “H” on their foreheads, visible for all to see, and pretty much everyone can identify the idea as heretical as soon as they see it. Racism is one such heresy, inherent in National Socialism and the White Supremacist movement. Other...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

 

[Light of the East]

Oh you mean like call me and those I associate with hellists? I feel horrible now...

Hellist is simply someone who believes in eternal hell. We also refer to them as infernalists.

 

[Light of the East]

This man has no idea what he is talking about. First of all, he appears to be Orthodox, yet there is no dogmatic teaching regarding eschatology in the Orthodox Church. Therefore, if the Orthodox Church has not made a definitive statement regarding this, you cannot be a heretic.

Secondly, he states in the very beginning that anyone who believes in Universal Salvation is not a Christian. This shows that he is a complete . . . well, I'd rather not say, but he just said in essence that St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Isaac of Syria, and a host of Early Fathers were not Christians. Does this guy even KNOW history?

I think I know who this is (he is apparently chicken to show his name in his video) and if it is who I think it is, he is a convert to Orthodoxy who has come in and brought in a lot of his Western Protestant baggage with him and now acts as if he is an expert on Orthodoxy rather than doing what he should do, which is to sit down, shut up, and listen.

 

[Michie]

Fr. Stephen De Young

I would very much like to be a Universalist. In terms of my Christian hope, in terms of my emotional attachments, I would love to believe that in the end, no one would harden their heart against the Love of our Lord Jesus Christ, all would repent and believe, and all would find salvation in the age to come. I believe that this is at least a logical possibility, as there is no person who ever lived who could not repent, to whom God does not extend the offer of salvation.

In recent years, Universalism has become a popular option in the Protestant world. This is true not only of larger mainline denominations in which the idea of any condemnation coming from God has been rejected for going on two centuries, but also increasingly in evangelical circles through popular books like Rob Bell’s Love Wins. Of late, it has begun making inroads into the beliefs of some Orthodox Christians, at least in the United States, albeit in a version carefully tailored to circumvent conciliar condemnation.

It is readily apparent that the sort of naked Universalism popular in the Protestant world, the simple denial of any real judgment or condemnation of anyone in the world in any age by Christ, is incompatible with the teachings of the Orthodox Faith. (Even in this, there is occasional push-back offered by some Orthodox Christians in the form of casting doubt upon the Fifth Ecumenical Council and/or attempting to rehabilitate Origen, but I leave it to another author to address the patristic witness on this issue). Rather, therefore, the particular form of Universalism making its appeal to the Orthodox faithful is a modified one, which does not deny judgment or the existence of a hell outright, but which renders these as purgative, such that everyone is eventually saved after a time of punishment. This seems appealing to many because it seems to preserve God’s Justice in punishing sin while also reflecting great compassion. Many converts to the Orthodox Faith were attracted by the teaching of a God whose Love is more ultimate than His Justice, as opposed to the God of wrath and retribution posited in Western theories of penal substitutionary atonement, and this form of Universalism seems to be the continuation of the move in that direction.

Before proceeding further, it should be noted that the Orthodox Faith does not teach the view of ‘Heaven and Hell’ which is ingrained in popular religion at least in the United States. The idea that when a person dies, their soul goes to heaven or hell for eternity, leaving their body behind is in no wise Christian. To believe in eternal condemnation or exclusion as the teaching of the Apostles and the Fathers is not to deny the universal Resurrection, nor to believe that there is a place called ‘Hell’ of evil which is equally ultimate to the new heavens and the new earth to which we look forward. The question at hand is the nature of the condemnation issued when Christ comes to judge the living and the dead and that condemnation’s duration.

The Testimony of Scripture

Continued below.

Hell (Unfortunately) Yes: Why I Can't Be a Universalist – Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy

I would very much like to be a Universalist. In terms of my Christian hope, in terms of my emotional attachments, I would love to believe that in the end, no one would harden their heart against the Love of our Lord Jesus Christ, all would repent and believe, and all would find salvation in the...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

 

[Light of the East]

Brad Jersak-

A God Without Wrath? – No Other Foundation

Some heresies wear their heretical nature like a big scarlet “H” on their foreheads, visible for all to see, and pretty much everyone can identify the idea as heretical as soon as they see it. Racism is one such heresy, inherent in National Socialism and the White Supremacist movement. Other...

blogs.ancientfaith.com

Fr. Farley is another convert from the West. He is, like so many who hold to the idea of an eternal hell of torment, cherry-picking the Fathers he likes and ignoring the rest. He, like so many others, refuses to respond to the basic concept in David Bentley Hart's first meditation in his book THAT ALL SHALL BE SAVED. The meditation is on creatio ex nihlo, and a thumbnail of it is simply this: God, being all-knowing, would know before the creation of all things that mankind would fall. God had no need, nor was under any compulsion, either external or internal, to create sentient beings. Yet, knowing that mankind would fall and bring death upon all creation, and also thus condemn billions to an eternity of conscious, eternal torment, He went ahead and did it anyway. This means that the existence of these beings in hell was His plan and will for them in the beginning. In other words, He created them to the goal of eternal suffering. This means in essence that the Calvinists, and their demonic and God-dishonoring doctrine of predestination are correct.

Bluntly put, you cannot have a God who is love who would do such a thing, for love never allows the object of its affection to irreparably harm itself.

Furthermore, even your church teaches that God is immutable, that is, that He is not subject to the passions which mankind suffers from. Since this was accepted by the Early Fathers as a truth, they took many of the verses of the OT which spoke of the wrath of God and applied them in a different manner than understanding that God gets angry like mankind does. Fr. Farley completely ignores this reality in his disgust over the idea that God would actually have a plan to ultimately save all mankind, some in this life and some in the next life.

People with an agenda are very hard to deal with. The agenda comes before any other facts that might derail what they want to be truth.

 

[Michie]

Fr. Farley is another convert from the West. He is, like so many who hold to the idea of an eternal hell of torment, cherry-picking the Fathers he likes and ignoring the rest. He, like so many others, refuses to respond to the basic concept in David Bentley Hart's first meditation in his book THAT ALL SHALL BE SAVED. The meditation is on creatio ex nihlo, and a thumbnail of it is simply this: God, being all-knowing, would know before the creation of all things that mankind would fall. God had no need, nor was under any compulsion, either external or internal, to create sentient beings. Yet, knowing that mankind would fall and bring death upon all creation, and also thus condemn billions to an eternity of conscious, eternal torment, He went ahead and did it anyway. This means that the existence of these beings in hell was His plan and will for them in the beginning. In other words, He created them to the goal of eternal suffering. This means in essence that the Calvinists, and their demonic and God-dishonoring doctrine of predestination are correct.

Bluntly put, you cannot have a God who is love who would do such a thing, for love never allows the object of its affection to irreparably harm itself.

Furthermore, even your church teaches that God is immutable, that is, that He is not subject to the passions which mankind suffers from. Since this was accepted by the Early Fathers as a truth, they took many of the verses of the OT which spoke of the wrath of God and applied them in a different manner than understanding that God gets angry like mankind does. Fr. Farley completely ignores this reality in his disgust over the idea that God would actually have a plan to ultimately save all mankind, some in this life and some in the next life.

People with an agenda are very hard to deal with. The agenda comes before any other facts that might derail what they want to be truth.

I took my agenda to the Orthodox forum.

 

[Der Alte]

So instead of responding to his educational brilliance, you turn to those who disagree with him and call him names. That's real mature, Michie.

This was not directed at me but could well have been. Except to try to verify what someone else "quoted" from a "scholar" or an "ECF" I have never read either to support my understanding of the eternal fate of the unrighteous. Here are my two main passages supporting "eternal punishment."

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left vs. 41] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”[EOB, p. 96]​

…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, linked below, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
…..I doubt there is anyone better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.
Link to EOB online:

The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)

archive.org

…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.[EOB, p. 518]​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
…..Some badly informed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” Sorry, that is impossible, both “prune” and “correction” are verbs. “Kolasis” is a noun. A noun cannot be translated as a verb.
Also according to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
The word “correction” occurs one time in the N.T.
2 Timothy 3:16 ἐπανόρθωσις/epanorthosis. It looks nothing like kolasis.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the native Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of uninterrupted Greek scholarship, are more than competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete Greek words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Much as English speaking scholars today know the meaning of obsolete English words which occur in, e.g. the 1611 KJV and can define them correctly.

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Neither the Father, Himself, nor Jesus, Himself, ever said that all mankind will be saved, or will enter the kingdom of heaven.
As a matter of fact, Jesus said, “Not every one …shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;” Then Jesus said, “Many” [NOT a few,] “will say to me in that day,” i.e. Judgement day, “Lord, Lord, have we not … in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Then Jesus will say to those “many” “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” When Jesus says “never” He means “never” not someday by and by.
.....Additional evidence against a common misinterpretation of "aionios." Some misinformed folks try to translate "aionios" as "age." That is impossible "aionios" is an adjective,"age" is a noun. And adjective cannot be translated as a noun.

 

[Der Alte]

Fr. Farley is another convert from the West. He is, like so many who hold to the idea of an eternal hell of torment, cherry-picking the Fathers he likes and ignoring the rest. He, like so many others, refuses to respond to the basic concept in David Bentley Hart's first meditation in his book THAT ALL SHALL BE SAVED. The meditation is on creatio ex nihlo, and a thumbnail of it is simply this: God, being all-knowing, would know before the creation of all things that mankind would fall. God had no need, nor was under any compulsion, either external or internal, to create sentient beings. Yet, knowing that mankind would fall and bring death upon all creation, and also thus condemn billions to an eternity of conscious, eternal torment, He went ahead and did it anyway. This means that the existence of these beings in hell was His plan and will for them in the beginning. In other words, He created them to the goal of eternal suffering. This means in essence that the Calvinists, and their demonic and God-dishonoring doctrine of predestination are correct.
Bluntly put, you cannot have a God who is love who would do such a thing, for love never allows the object of its affection to irreparably harm itself.
Furthermore, even your church teaches that God is immutable, that is, that He is not subject to the passions which mankind suffers from. Since this was accepted by the Early Fathers as a truth, they took many of the verses of the OT which spoke of the wrath of God and applied them in a different manner than understanding that God gets angry like mankind does. Fr. Farley completely ignores this reality in his disgust over the idea that God would actually have a plan to ultimately save all mankind, some in this life and some in the next life.
People with an agenda are very hard to deal with. The agenda comes before any other facts that might derail what they want to be truth.

You are absolutely correct, "People with an agenda are very hard to deal with. The agenda comes before any other facts that might derail what they want to be truth." as evidenced by this post. You have quoted two, I assume, "scholars" in support of this argument and NOT even one vs. of scripture.
Can you show me one vs, 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, unequivocally says that all mankind will be saved even after death?

 

[Light of the East]

You are absolutely correct, "People with an agenda are very hard to deal with. The agenda comes before any other facts that might derail what they want to be truth." as evidenced by this post. You have quoted two, I assume, "scholars" in support of this argument and NOT even one vs. of scripture.
Can you show me one vs, 2 or more would be better, where the Father, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, unequivocally says that all mankind will be saved even after death?

So once again, you dodge the question in order to hold your position. The simple fact is that only a psychopath of the worst sort would create sentient beings for the sole purpose of seeing them writhe in torment forever. And the simple fact is that God, being all knowing and foreseeing the Fall of Mankind in the Garden, went ahead and created the cosmos anyway, which means that if ECT is true, billions would go into eternal, horrible, unrelenting torment. Foreknowing this fact, it then means that this was His will. You cannot escape that conclusion. And I have seen no one respond to David Bentley Hart's statement to this fact in his first meditation of TASBS. They simply call him names, insult his character, and leave.

Tell me why God is not a psychopath if ECT is true? I'll wait.

Oh, and when God says this in the Scriptures:

John 12: 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Romans 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2 Corinthians 5: 14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

 

[Michie]

So once again, you dodge the question in order to hold your position. The simple fact is that only a psychopath of the worst sort would create sentient beings for the sole purpose of seeing them writhe in torment forever. And the simple fact is that God, being all knowing and foreseeing the Fall of Mankind in the Garden, went ahead and created the cosmos anyway, which means that if ECT is true, billions would go into eternal, horrible, unrelenting torment. Foreknowing this fact, it then means that this was His will. You cannot escape that conclusion. And I have seen no one respond to David Bentley Hart's statement to this fact in his first meditation of TASBS. They simply call him names, insult his character, and leave.

Tell me why God is not a psychopath if ECT is true? I'll wait.

Oh, and when God says this in the Scriptures:

John 12: 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Romans 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

2 Corinthians 5: 14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

You might as well put me on ignore. I don’t deal with people like you. Why don’t you ask Fr. Matt?

 

[Michie]

Jesus Anointed at Bethany

12 Six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. 2 Here a dinner was given in Jesus’ honor. Martha served, while Lazarus was among those reclining at the table with him. 3 Then Mary took about a pint[a] of pure nard, an expensive perfume; she poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped his feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume.

4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

7 “Leave her alone,” Jesus replied. “It was intended that she should save this perfume for the day of my burial. 8 You will always have the poor among you,[c] but you will not always have me.”

9 Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. 10 So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, 11 for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and believing in him.

Jesus Comes to Jerusalem as King

12 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. 13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,

“Hosanna![d]”
“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”[e]
“Blessed is the king of Israel!”
14 Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, as it is written:

15 “Do not be afraid, Daughter Zion;
see, your king is coming,
seated on a donkey’s colt.”[f]
16 At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that these things had been done to him.

17 Now the crowd that was with him when he called Lazarus from the tomb and raised him from the dead continued to spread the word. 18 Many people, because they had heard that he had performed this sign, went out to meet him. 19 So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!”

Jesus Predicts His Death

20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. 36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.

Belief and Unbelief Among the Jews

37 Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

“Lord, who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”[h]
39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their hearts,
so they can neither see with their eyes,
nor understand with their hearts,
nor turn—and I would heal them.”
41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Footnotes

John 12:3 Or about 0.5 liter
John 12:5 Greek three hundred denarii
John 12:8 See Deut. 15:11.
John 12:13 A Hebrew expression meaning “Save!” which became an exclamation of praise
John 12:13 Psalm 118:25,26
John 12:15 Zech. 9:9
John 12:32 The Greek for lifted up also means exalted.
John 12:38 Isaiah 53:1
John 12:40 Isaiah 6:10

Enduring Word Bible Commentary John Chapter 12

David Guzik commentary on John 12, where Jesus has dinner at Lazarus’ house and Martha serves Him while Mary anoints His feet with oil.

enduringword.com

 

[Michie]

Peace and Hope

5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Footnotes

Romans 5:1 Many manuscripts let us
Romans 5:2 Or let us
Romans 5:3 Or let us

Enduring Word Bible Commentary Romans Chapter 5

David Guzik commentary on Romans 5, where Paul points out the benefits of being justifies through faith and contrasts the work between Adam and Jesus.

enduringword.com

 

[Michie]

The Resurrection of Christ

15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30 And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31 I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,

“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.”[d]
33 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”[e] 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Footnotes

1 Corinthians 15:3 Or you at the first
1 Corinthians 15:5 That is, Peter
1 Corinthians 15:27 Psalm 8:6
1 Corinthians 15:32 Isaiah 22:13
1 Corinthians 15:33 From the Greek poet Menander
1 Corinthians 15:45 Gen. 2:7
1 Corinthians 15:49 Some early manuscripts so let us
1 Corinthians 15:54 Isaiah 25:8
1 Corinthians 15:55 Hosea 13:14

Enduring Word Bible Commentary 1 Corinthians Chapter 15

David Guzik commentary on 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul explains our resurrection in relation to the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

enduringword.com

 

[Michie]

Awaiting the New Body

5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

The Ministry of Reconciliation

11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12 We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13 If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Footnotes

2 Corinthians 5:17 Or Christ, that person is a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:21 Or be a sin offering

Enduring Word Bible Commentary 2 Corinthians Chapter 5

David Guzik commentary on 2 Corinthians 5, where Paul discusses the aim of our life in light of our eternal destiny, and defends his ministry.

enduringword.com

 

[Der Alte]

So once again, you dodge the question in order to hold your position. The simple fact is that only a psychopath of the worst sort would create sentient beings for the sole purpose of seeing them writhe in torment forever. And the simple fact is that God, being all knowing and foreseeing the Fall of Mankind in the Garden, went ahead and created the cosmos anyway, which means that if ECT is true, billions would go into eternal, horrible, unrelenting torment. Foreknowing this fact, it then means that this was His will. You cannot escape that conclusion. And I have seen no one respond to David Bentley Hart's statement to this fact in his first meditation of TASBS. They simply call him names, insult his character, and leave.
Tell me why God is not a psychopath if ECT is true? I'll wait.
Oh, and when God says this in the Scriptures:
John 12: 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 5: 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
2 Corinthians 5: 14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

There was no credible question to dodge. It is not fallible men's purview to decide what is/is not logical/reasonable/acceptable etc. for God to do/not do. I rest my entire argument on the words of Jesus, Himself see e.g. Matthew 7:21-23. And do NOT even think about trying to tell me what it "really says" unless you have 2-3 semesters of koine Greek.
Anybody can "prove" almost anything by taking disparate vss. out-of-context and jamming them together trying to make it appear that they are one continuous narrative, as you have done.
Hardly a day goes by without some misguided soul quoting 1 Cor 15:22 OUT-OF-CONTEXT, as here, trying vainly to support UR.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23​

(22) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.​

(23) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

First, read the vs. exactly as it is written, don't move the verbs and subjects around. All mankind is inherently "in Adam" because all mankind are literal descendants of Adam. But all mankind are not inherently "in Christ," that requires an informed, conscious decision in this life.
The very next vs. proves this. Note, "every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits;" Then it very clearly says, NOT as UR-ites would have it, "all mankind" but, "afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." Only those who already belong to Christ when He returns.

 

[Der Alte]

Awaiting the New Body
5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
The Ministry of Reconciliation
11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12 We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13 If we are “out of our mind,” as some say, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Footnotes
2 Corinthians 5:17 Or Christ, that person is a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:21 Or be a sin offering

Enduring Word Bible Commentary 2 Corinthians Chapter 5

David Guzik commentary on 2 Corinthians 5, where Paul discusses the aim of our life in light of our eternal destiny, and defends his ministry.

enduringword.com

This passage has a vs. which clearly shows that the Greek word "aionios" does, in fact, mean "eternal."

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.​

Here Paul has contrasted "aionios house" with "earthly tent [that] is destroyed."

 

[Michie]

I keep posting these Scriptures in the context in which they were written hoping it might make some rethink. You can take anything and parse it out to makes it mean something it never intended. Looking at the original languages of the time is very eye opening. I’m glad this is your area of expertise. You’ve contributed a lot here and I with many others appreciate it.

 

[Der Alte]

I keep posting these Scriptures in the co text in which they were written hoping it might make some rethink. You can take anything and parse it out to makes it mean something it never intended. Looking at the original languages of the time is very eye opening. I’m glad this is your area of expertise. You’ve contributed a lot here and I with many others appreciate it.

That is all we can do. The best we can. I have been active on this forum since at least Y2K
Referring to my previous post #24 2 Cor 5:1 also shows that "aionios" cannot be translated as "age."