What if Sunday was the seventh day of the week?

[DialecticSkeptic]

What would you do if the governments of the modern West—the United States of America, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and so on—collectively decided to change the calendar so that the weekend was actually the end of the week, such that the week started on Monday, ran through to Friday, and ended with Saturday and Sunday. To be perfectly clear, in this scenario Sunday would be the seventh day of the week. Would all of Christianity attend their places of worship on the same day? Or would Seventh-Day Adventists continue worshiping on Saturday, which would now be the sixth day throughout the entire Western world?

 

[BobRyan]

What would you do if the governments of the modern West—the United States of America, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and so on—collectively decided to change the calendar so that the weekend was actually the end of the week, such that the week started on Monday, ran through to Friday, and ended with Saturday and Sunday. To be perfectly clear, in this scenario Sunday would be the seventh day of the week. Would all of Christianity attend their places of worship on the same day? Or would Seventh-Day Adventists continue worshiping on Saturday, which would now be the sixth day throughout the entire Western world?

They already did that in the EU.

Sunday Is the Sun's Day

Sunday is the seventh day of the week according to the international standard ISO 8601. However, many countries, including the US, Canada and Japan, count Sunday as the first day of the week.

www.timeanddate.com

"Sunday is the seventh day of the week according to the international standard ISO 8601"

But Christians in Europe still know that Saturday is the 7th day - that Jesus was resurrected on the real first day of the week - Sunday etc.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

But Christians in Europe still know that Saturday is the 7th day - that Jesus was resurrected on the real first day of the week - Sunday etc.

But let's assume that North America and all Western countries did it, too. This is strictly a hypothetical scenario. For the sake of this question, let's just pretend that everywhere you look—your smartphone, computer, television, calendar—the week begins with Monday and ends with Sunday. Would you switch to worshiping on the sixth day of the week?

 

[BobRyan]

But let's assume that North America and all Western countries did it, too. This is strictly a hypothetical scenario. For the sake of this question, let's just pretend that everywhere you look—your smartphone, computer, television, calendar—the week begins with Monday and ends with Sunday. Would you switch to worshiping on the sixth day of the week?

no - my point is that in nations where they use ISO standard calendars having Sunday as the 7th day - the Jews, SDAs and others in those countries still worship on Saturday as the 7th day and the Christians there still worship on Sunday as the first day.

You might be more interested in the odd zone - where the international dateline "has moved" in places like the Marshall Islands. Now there is a case where a man made line has moved a few times and days of the week got messed up.

 

[reddogs]

What would you do if the governments of the modern West—the United States of America, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and so on—collectively decided to change the calendar so that the weekend was actually the end of the week, such that the week started on Monday, ran through to Friday, and ended with Saturday and Sunday. To be perfectly clear, in this scenario Sunday would be the seventh day of the week. Would all of Christianity attend their places of worship on the same day? Or would Seventh-Day Adventists continue worshiping on Saturday, which would now be the sixth day throughout the entire Western world?

This was done from the first in the change to the planetary week to change the names and when that didnt work we find Clement of Alexandrian claiming there was a mystic 'eighth day' which of course was 'Sunday' for worship.

 

[Soyeong]

What would you do if the governments of the modern West—the United States of America, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and so on—collectively decided to change the calendar so that the weekend was actually the end of the week, such that the week started on Monday, ran through to Friday, and ended with Saturday and Sunday. To be perfectly clear, in this scenario Sunday would be the seventh day of the week. Would all of Christianity attend their places of worship on the same day? Or would Seventh-Day Adventists continue worshiping on Saturday, which would now be the sixth day throughout the entire Western world?

Counting off every 7th day from Creation is independent of which calendar system is being used.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

no - my point is that in nations where they use ISO standard calendars having Sunday as the 7th day - the Jews, SDAs and others in those countries still worship on Saturday as the 7th day and the Christians there still worship on Sunday as the first day.

So, your answer to my question would be, "Yes, we would switch to worshiping on the sixth day of the week."

 

[BobRyan]

So, your answer to my question would be, "Yes, we would switch to worshiping on the sixth day of the week."

We would continue to worship on Saturday even if the ISO standard said "hey we are going to call that the 6th day of the week". Which is exactly what is going on in Europe as we speak.

And just as we do today in that case -- we explain that the 7th day of the Bible week is being called the 6th day of the week as per an ISO idea that came late in the 20th century and was adopted by many business in the EU.

Just as folks also say that the first day of the week that you read about in the Gospels is what the ISO standard now calls the 7th day of the week. The churches in Europe that want to celebrate that first-day resurrection - still have those services on Sunday. They apparently did not get confused by the ISO idea.

 

[sparow]

We would continue to worship on Saturday even if the ISO standard said "hey we are going to call that the 6th day of the week". Which is exactly what is going on in Europe as we speak.

And just as we do today in that case -- we explain that the 7th day of the Bible week is being called the 6th day of the week as per an ISO idea that came late in the 20th century and was adopted by many business in the EU.

Just as folks also say that the first day of the week that you read about in the Gospels is what the ISO standard now calls the 7th day of the week. The churches in Europe that want to celebrate that first-day resurrection - still have those services on Sunday. They apparently did not get confused by the ISO idea.

At the time of creation God knew which day was the seventh; when the manna was not dropped in the wilderness, God knew which day was the seventh day. Man cannot change which day is the seventh day; man can change what man names the day.

 

[trophy33]

Just as folks also say that the first day of the week that you read about in the Gospels is what the ISO standard now calls the 7th day of the week. The churches in Europe that want to celebrate that first-day resurrection - still have those services on Sunday. They apparently did not get confused by the ISO idea.

"Mia tón sabatón" can be translated both as "the first day of the week" or "the first day after sabbath" (which is more literal).

Common Christians in Europe, Russia and elsewhere in the world who live according to the ISO, read the text in the latter way, and do not care too much about it being the 7th of the 1st in the calendar week.

 

[BobRyan]

But let's assume that North America and all Western countries did it, too. This is strictly a hypothetical scenario. For the sake of this question, let's just pretend that everywhere you look—your smartphone, computer, television, calendar—the week begins with Monday and ends with Sunday. Would you switch to worshiping on the sixth day of the week?

No I would not switch and I don't think Jews would either - nor do I think Christians wold switch to keeping Monday in memory of Christ's resurrection.

The "horse is already out of the barn", toothpaste already out of the tube and so civil ordinances to the contrary would not erase community memory. But if they did it for 500 or a 1000 years even then we would already have a record of the situation today since we have come that far in record keeping.

 

[BobRyan]

"Mia tón sabatón" can be translated both as "the first day of the week" or "the first day after sabbath" (which is more literal).

Common Christians in Europe, Russia and elsewhere in the world who live according to the ISO, read the text in the latter way, and do not care too much about it being the 7th of the 1st in the calendar week.

The Jews in Europ and Russia still keep Saturday and so also do SDAs in Europe and Russia still keep Saturday as the 7th day.

I don't know of any Christians in Russia or Europe keeping Monday in memorial of Christ's resurrection. Maybe you can provide some documentation on that point.

Do you think it is "just a coincidence" that Jews and Christians agree on the days of the week in the gospels such that the Sabbath was Saturday and the first day of the week was what we call Sunday?

 

[trophy33]

The Jews in Europ and Russia still keep Saturday and so also to SDAs in Europe and Russia still keep Saturday as the 7th day.

I don't know of any Christians in Russia or Europe keeping Monday in memorial of Christ's resurrection. Maybe you can provide some documentation on that point.

Do you think it is "just a coincidence" that Jews and Christians agree on the days of the week in the gospels such that the Sabbath was Saturday and the first day of the week was what we call Sunday?

I did not say that Christians in Europe keep Monday. I said they worship (its not keeping) on Sunday and do not care that its the 7th day of the week, instead of the fist day of the week like in the USA. What is important is that it follows after Saturday/Sabbath.

In Europe, both Saturday and Sunday are part of the weekend (week end), which for most people means they do not go to work and smaller businesses and offices are closed or with limited opening hours.

 

[BobRyan]

I did not say that Christians in Europe keep Monday. I said they worship (its not keeping) on Sunday and do not care that its the 7th day of the week, instead of the fist day of the week like in the USA. What is important is that it follows after Saturday/Sabbath.

ok - thanks.

In Europe, both Saturday and Sunday are part of the weekend (week end), which for most people means they do not go to work and smaller businesses and offices are closed or with limited opening hours.

that is generally the case in the USA as well

 

[BobRyan]

I said they worship (its not keeping) on Sunday and do not care that its the 7th day of the week, instead of the fist day of the week

They all admit that they keep Sunday because it is the first day of the week mentioned in the gospels as the day Jesus was resurrected. That is irrefutable. They don't seem to care that a johnny-come-lately recalculation was setup in Europe - they still point to week day 1 in the Bible as their Sunday.

What is important is that it follows after Saturday/Sabbath.

IN the Gospels it does not just say "after the Sabbath" it also say "early on the first day of the week".

In Europe, both Saturday and Sunday are part of the weekend (week end)

As is the case in the U.S.

, which for most people means they do not go to work and smaller businesses and offices are closed or with limited opening hours.

In the Bible secular activity is not allowed on the weekly Holy day - Sabbath .. Is 58:13

“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot​

From doing as you wish on My holy day,​

And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,​

And honor it, desisting from your own ways,​

From seeking your own pleasure​

And speaking your own word,​

​

For 40 years no manna fell on Saturday-Sabbath and on Friday twice as much manna fell as on the other 5 days when manna fell each week. And unlike the other days - the manna the fell on Friday would stay fresh all through both Friday and the next day.

 

[Gary K]

What would you do if the governments of the modern West—the United States of America, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and so on—collectively decided to change the calendar so that the weekend was actually the end of the week, such that the week started on Monday, ran through to Friday, and ended with Saturday and Sunday. To be perfectly clear, in this scenario Sunday would be the seventh day of the week. Would all of Christianity attend their places of worship on the same day? Or would Seventh-Day Adventists continue worshiping on Saturday, which would now be the sixth day throughout the entire Western world?

I have not read this entire thread so I don't know if someone else already gave my answer. So, here goes.

It doesn't matter what the name of day of the week is. It only matters where the day comes in the weekly order. The seventh day of the week is the Sabbath. Period.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I have not read this entire thread so I don’t know if someone else already gave my answer. So, here goes.

It doesn’t matter what the name of day of the week is. It only matters where the day comes in the weekly order. The seventh day of the week is the Sabbath. Period.

See, that’s what I was thinking. The Bible doesn't say Saturday is the weekly sabbath. The seventh day is the sabbath, whatever we happen to call it.

So, if Monday was the first day of the week and Sunday was the seventh day, all Christians would worship on the same day.

 

[BobRyan]

See, that’s what I was thinking. The Bible doesn't say Saturday is the weekly sabbath. The seventh day is the sabbath, whatever we happen to call it.

And yet we all know that what the Bible calls "week day 1" is Sunday.

What is more - science tells us what the exact day of the week was in the days of Christ when the Jews were keeping Sabbath.

This is not the hard part.

So, if Monday was the first day of the week and Sunday was the seventh day, all Christians would worship on the same day.

No doubt the pagan/common names for week days numbered in the Bible could have been anything - but as it is - the names we have are what they called them -- so then pagans that turned to be Christians knew that the Sabbath was the day we now call Saturday.

And Acts 18:4 reminds us that Paul was engaged in gospel preaching 'every Sabbath'

 

[trophy33]

They all admit that they keep Sunday because it is the first day of the week mentioned in the gospels as the day Jesus was resurrected. That is irrefutable.

You present it like if Europeans cared about accusations of such type or were in a court.

And they do not keep Sunday, they assembly on Sunday - different things.

IN the Gospels it does not just say "after the Sabbath" it also say "early on the first day of the week".

As I said earlier, both week and Sabbath is the same word in gospels. So its just the translation you used. It can be translated "early on the first day after Sabbath", too.

In the Bible secular activity is not allowed on the weekly Holy day - Sabbath .. Is 58:13

“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot​

From doing as you wish on My holy day,​

And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,​

And honor it, desisting from your own ways,​

From seeking your own pleasure​

And speaking your own word,​

​

For 40 years no manna fell on Saturday-Sabbath and on Friday twice as much manna fell as on the other 5 days when manna fell each week. And unlike the other days - the manna the fell on Friday would stay fresh all through both Friday and the next day.

Yes, it was said to ancient Israel.

"You" in the text does not mean Europeans though, I think we agree its clear.

 

[BobRyan]

You present it like if Europeans cared about accusations

I write as if we actually see Christians in Europe write as if they attend services on the resurrection day, the day Jesus rose from the dead - the day the Bible calls the first day of the week every time they read those texts.

obviously

As I said earlier, both week and Sabbath is the same word in gospels

Context determines meaning.

Luke 18:12 12 I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’

Is not "I fast twice a Sabbath" even though it is the same word.

Acts 18:4 they hear gospel preaching in the synagogues "every Sabbath" for both Jews and gentiles is obviously the Sabbath.

I don't think this is as difficult as you are trying to make it. But you have free will and can try to make that suggestion fly if you wish.

Bible scholars, Bible commentaries a pretty consistent in showing us that the Sabbath is the meaning in those texts.