My Soteriology.

[First Age]

I have my suspicions that people here from most different traditions will not approve of the Soteriology that I think I have discovered by reading the Bible myself because it doesn't fit perfectly with any other tradition (though it overlaps with several of them). I will give it here and see what people say.

Did Christ die for everyone, or did he only die for the elect? Indeed, God died for the elect. But it says plainly that Christ died for the whole world as well. So, there is a “Partial-Atonement” for those not chosen before the foundations of the world and a “Full-Atonement” for those chosen before the foundations of the world. I want to be careful here and define these things. By “Partial-Atonement,” I mean it’s possible they can be saved. Still, it is not guaranteed, whereas by “Full-Atonement,” God ensures it will keep this person. I would back up this idea of “Partial-Atonement” with Christ’s words where He says,

Luke 13:34 ESV
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!”

Whereas with Peter, we see Christ saying,

Luke 22:32 ESV
“I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.””

For some of these same people who initially were not willing to see Jesus as the Messiah, later, some of these people see Jesus as the Messiah as seen here:

Acts 6:7 ESV
“And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.”

So, some religious Jews who received testimony from other Christians who preached to them ended up coming to faith in Jesus. This means that these religious Jews came to faith by messengers of the Gospel. We know this by “priests becoming obedient to the faith.”

In Acts 9, we see the story of Apostle Paul’s conversion. Paul, much in the same way as Job as well as others, was, in some sense, assaulted by the glory of God. Did Paul really have a choice in his response to Christ? Nothing in the text shows that Paul consciously chose to serve Jesus.

My point in this “Full-Atonement” is found here for Paul, where it says,

Galatians 1:15–16 ESV
“But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;”

So the question becomes, “Did God set all the elect apart before they were born?”

We see throughout Ephesians 1:3-12 that Paul speaks of those predestined as “us,” and “we.” So, who might this “us” and “we” be? Paul tells us here,

Ephesians 2:19–21 ESV
“So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord.”

What this tells us is that:

1. The “you” are “fellow citizens with the saint,” which is “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets.” The apostles and prophets are the “us” here. And,
2. The “structure” is “joined together” by every believer, to which Christ is the cornerstone.

But the next verse is very telling, as it says,

Ephesians 2:22 ESV
“In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.”

So clearly, Paul references a kind of dichotomy to those who, as Paul says, are “Predestined” and others, as it says, “In Him, you also are being built together.”

So where does the “Partial-Atonement” come from? Well, that is easy to see with verses like this one seen here:

1 John 2:2 ESV
“He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.”

So, notice the word “world” here that Apostle John uses. I am not aware of any single reference that the Apostle John uses the word “world” as meaning all the elect and not talking about the “whole world” or the dominion of Satan as the “world.” Instead, Calvinists insert this meaning into the text. It isn’t found in any of the ways John uses the word world.

He concludes about the world here:

1 John 5:19 ESV
“We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”

So how can it be that Christ is the “Savior of the world” unless Christ died for the world as to the dominion of Satan? For what else could John mean except that from 1 John 2:2 that Christ is the “propitiation for our sins” if not that Christ has a certain “Full-Atonement” for one group of people and a “Partial-Atonement” for “the sins of the whole world”?

Can't say I agree with your view, but I do believe the "whole world" refers to the sin of the world, and when people make a choice to turn to God, repent and believe in Jesus and the work of the cross, they're free from slavery to sin and death. "Saved by grace through faith". (Faith being the determining factor).

Yeah, I agree with all that. What's the confusion about? We need progressive sanctification in our lives, or we drift away. I agree with that. But that's not what gets us saved in the first place.



Are you referring to this?

John 6:29 ESV
“Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.””

No

 

[Clare73]

Thats works salvation then.

"Works" in the NT is law keeping (Ro 3:28).

 

[All Becomes New]

No

Then my last guess is to build up the body of Christ and embark on the great commission. If it's not that, just tell me.

 

[Brightfame52]

What's the alternative? Christ says,

Matthew 4:17 CSB17
“From then on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, because the kingdom of heaven has come near.””

Christ said nothing about making any conditions for Salvation.

 

[All Becomes New]

Christ said nothing about making any conditions for Salvation.

Well, universalism is heresy so...

 

[Clare73]

Christ said nothing about making any conditions for Salvation.

God's NT revelation is more than just the words of Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

"Works" in the NT is law keeping (Ro 3:28).

Its not limited to that, its all conditions, besides that, the law principle is very broad. Its the greek word nomos:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God
      1. by the observance of which is approved of God
   2. a precept or injunction
   3. the rule of action prescribed by reason

For instance, repentance is a command Acts 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So if one says they were saved by God because they obeyed the command to repent, then that's law keeping for Salvation, no way around it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Repent is a condition.

The bible doesnt teach that, thats a law, a work when you make repentance a condition.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, universalism is heresy so...

It sure is. As well as your works salvation

 

[Clare73]

Its not limited to that, its all conditions, besides that, the law principle is very broad. Its the greek word nomos:

anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

1. of any law whatsoever
   1. a law or rule producing a state approved of God
      1. by the observance of which is approved of God
   2. a precept or injunction
   3. the rule of action prescribed by reason

For instance, repentance is a command Acts 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

So if one says they were saved by God because they obeyed the command to repent, then that's law keeping for Salvation, no way around it.

In the NT, "the law" does not refer to every command, but to a specific written code.

In the NT, "works" refers to law keeping.

 

[All Becomes New]

It sure is. As well as your works salvation

You've misunderstood me every step of the way.

Do you have to repent to be saved? Yes or no?

 

[First Age]

Then my last guess is to build up the body of Christ and embark on the great commission. If it's not that, just tell me.

 

[First Age]

Jesse
the elect have to stand against the Antichrist and new age religion/new world order propaganda committing heresy.

 

[Brightfame52]

In the NT, "the law" does not refer to every command, but to a specific written code.

In the NT, "works" refers to law keeping.

Wrong, a command is a command and by definition a law, if you believe you were saved because you obeyed a command to repent, congrats you are saved by law keeping and are bound to keep the whole law to be saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

You've misunderstood me every step of the way.

Do you have to repent to be saved? Yes or no?

No, you condition salvation on a persons acts of repentance and believing, so that's works salvation.

Now a person is legally saved from the penalty of their sins and Justified before God and declared righteous, reconciled to God, without repenting, without believing, but solely upon the fact that Christ died for their sins.

 

[All Becomes New]

No, you condition salvation on a persons acts of repentance and believing, so that's works salvation.

Now a person is legally saved from the penalty of their sins and Justified before God and declared righteous, reconciled to God, without repenting, without believing, but solely upon the fact that Christ died for their sins.

Are you a universalist? If you are, this conversation is meaningless.

 

[ozso]

Jesse
the elect have to stand against the Antichrist and new age religion/new world order propaganda committing heresy.

According to what scripture?

 

[Clare73]

Its not limited to that, its all conditions, besides that, the law principle is very broad. Its the greek word nomos:
anything established, anything received by usage, a custom, a law, a command

That hermeneutic has a limp.
"Law" is limited to its usage in the NT.

In the NT, the actual meaning of a word is governed by its usage.
For example, "spiritual" (not used in the gospels) means non-material, non-physical, not corporeal.
However, that is not its meaning in NT usage, where it is "of the realm of the Holy Spirit" rather than simply "non-material."

Likewise, the meaning of "law" in the NT is governed by its NT usage; i.e., Mosaic written code, not by your definition.

Wrong, a command is a command and by definition a law, if you believe you were saved because you obeyed a command to repent, congrats you are saved by law keeping and are bound to keep the whole law to be saved.

What a strange hermeneutic. . .

In the NT, faith is not works, rather in salvation and justification faith is opposed to (it is not identified with) works (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28).

In the NT, works is law keeping of the written code.

Your definitions have no authority in the NT, where the meaning of words is shown in how they are used throughout the NT,
as demonstrated above in the use of "spiritual" and of "faith vs. works."

 

[Brightfame52]

Are you a universalist? If you are, this conversation is meaningless.

No Im not. Christ only died for Gods elect and all are not Gods elect. Do you believe people Christ died for are Justified before God soley on the basis of His death for them apart from their faith and repentance , and while they are unbelievers still ? Yes or No

 

[Brightfame52]

That hermeneutic has a limp.
"Law" is limited to its usage in the NT.

In the NT, the actual meaning of a word is governed by its usage.
For example, "spiritual" (not used in the gospels) means non-material, non-physical, not corporeal.
However, that is not its meaning in NT usage, where it is "of the realm of the Holy Spirit" rather than simply "non-material."

Likewise, the meaning of "law" in the NT is governed by its NT usage; i.e., Mosaic written code, not by your definition.



What a strange hermeneutic. . .

In the NT, faith is not works, rather in salvation and justification faith is opposed to (it is not identified with) works (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28).

In the NT, works is law keeping of the written code.

Your definitions have no authority in the NT, where the meaning of words is shown in how they are used throughout the NT,
as demonstrated above in the use of "spiritual" and of "faith vs. works."

Lol call it strange, if you condition your salvation on obeying a command, its works, law keeping salvation, and its totally divorced from Salvation by Grace through Faith.