Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[iluvatar5150]

Police are “prone” to unjustified excessive violence? 56 million police interactions with civilians and 26,000 brutality complaints that comes to .04% per year and that’s the total number of complaints made not the actual number of verified cases of police brutality. I’d hardly consider that being “prone” to brutality. The fact is that actually police brutality cases are extremely rare which is precisely why everyone is so shocked when they appear on the news because it absolutely is not the norm for police behavior.

0.04% is 1 in 2500, which is not rare at all. That would be considered unacceptably high in virtually every other context.

Worldwide, the average Walmart store has about 23,000 customers per week. By your assessment, if each and every Walmart store beat up 9 people every week, you would consider that "extremely rare."

In 2019, US airlines carried 927 million passengers. 0.04% of that is 370,800. By your assessment, airline pilots could beat up 370,000 people per year - or over 1,000 people PER DAY - yet it would still be considered "extremely rare".

In 2019, Uber drivers made 6.9 billion trips. 0.04% of that is 2.76 million. By your assessment, Uber drivers could beat up 2.76 million passengers a year - or 1 every 11.4 seconds - and it would be "extremely rare."

No, this is not "extremely rare." Assuming your numbers are correct, this is extremely common. Maybe it's about time we expect the people with guns to behave as well as everybody else.

 

[BNR32FAN]

0.04% is 1 in 2500, which is not rare at all. That would be considered unacceptably high in virtually every other context.

1 person files a brutality complaint out of 2500 and that’s unacceptable? Just because someone files a complaint doesn’t mean that brutality actually took place. Criminals complain about brutality all the time when police resort the the use of force because they were resisting arrest so false complaints are not uncommon. That’s why only a tiny fraction of these complaints result in disciplinary actions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In 2019, US airlines carried 927 million passengers. 0.04% of that is 370,800. By your assessment, airline pilots could beat up 370,000 people per year - or over 1,000 people PER DAY - yet it would still be considered "extremely rare".

Read my post again that was the total number of complaints not an actual confirmed number of brutality cases.

 

[Pommer]

1 person files a brutality complaint out of 2500 and that’s unacceptable? Just because someone files a complaint doesn’t mean that brutality actually took place. Criminals complain about brutality all the time when police resort the the use of force because they were resisting arrest so false complaints are not uncommon. That’s why only a tiny fraction of these complaints result in disciplinary actions.

The “1 in 2500” is after eliminating all the “not brutality” (or brutality that was justified for totally non-racist reasons) cases.
Nice try, though.

 

[gaara4158]

The “1 in 2500” is after eliminating all the “not brutality” (or brutality that was justified for totally non-racist reasons) cases.
Nice try, though.

Not to mention that police brutality goes massively underreported. More than half of US police killings are mislabelled or not reported, study finds

 

[iluvatar5150]

1 person files a brutality complaint out of 2500 and that’s unacceptable? Just because someone files a complaint doesn’t mean that brutality actually took place. Criminals complain about brutality all the time when police resort the the use of force because they were resisting arrest so false complaints are not uncommon. That’s why only a tiny fraction of these complaints result in disciplinary actions.

Read my post again that was the total number of complaints not an actual confirmed number of brutality cases.

Even if 99% of those complaints are total nonsense, that's still way too high. Cutting that number down to just one one-hundredth of what you wrote (i.e. 1 in 250,000) would have each Walmart beating up 1 customer every ~2.5 months, pilots beating up 10 people per day, and Uber drivers beating up somebody every 19 minutes. It 99.9% of the brutality claims were bogus, it would be the equivalent of Walmarts beating up 1 customer every other year, pilots beating up 1 person per day, and Uber drivers beating up people once every ~3 hours.

IOW, if the "rare" brutality complaints against police were ONE THOUSAND TIMES better than what you claimed, they would still be appalling in any other industry.

 

[rjs330]

You understand it’s a minority of Black people committing these crimes that affect everyone around them, right? But because the problems involve other Black people, you see that as an “internal” problem and therefore not systemic. Your thoughts terminate there.

How many black people commit crime? What percentage of them?

Does it compare to less than .02% of police committing excessive force?

Who are the majority of victims of black crime?

No there is no systemic racism. And policing in the high crime area is not systemic racism. It's good policing.

 

[rjs330]

Even if 99% of those complaints are total nonsense, that's still way too high. Cutting that number down to just one one-hundredth of what you wrote (i.e. 1 in 250,000) would have each Walmart beating up 1 customer every ~2.5 months, pilots beating up 10 people per day, and Uber drivers beating up somebody every 19 minutes. It 99.9% of the brutality claims were bogus, it would be the equivalent of Walmarts beating up 1 customer every other year, pilots beating up 1 person per day, and Uber drivers beating up people once every ~3 hours.

IOW, if the "rare" brutality complaints against police were ONE THOUSAND TIMES better than what you claimed, they would still be appalling in any other industry.

Oh yeah, Uber drivers and Wal+Mart workers deal with the same people and the same type of circumstances that cops deal with.

You know who they call when they do have someone that's a bad guy? The cops.

So yes it's a very small amount that is not appalling.

There are .04% of use of force complaints. 10% are upheld making it .00004% upheld.

I wouldn't call that appauling.

So tell me, what would the number need to be to be considered not appalling.

 

[gaara4158]

How many black people commit crime? What percentage of them?

Does it compare to less than .02% of police committing excessive force?

Who are the majority of victims of black crime?

No there is no systemic racism. And policing in the high crime area is not systemic racism. It's good policing.

High crime rates, high policing rates, and any rate of police brutality disproportionately affecting Black people is, by definition, systemic racism. You’re clearly very invested in denying this fact. Let’s explore why that is.

What happens to you if you’re presented with undeniable proof that systemic racism exists? Why is it so important to you that this cannot be the case?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The “1 in 2500” is after eliminating all the “not brutality” (or brutality that was justified for totally non-racist reasons) cases.
Nice try, though.

No it wasn’t it was the total number of brutality complaints. That means every single claim of brutality not confirmed cases where police brutality actually took place.

The Real Numbers Of “Police Brutality” in America That You Need To See

The media tells you one thing... but the real numbers tell you something entirely different about police brutality in America. You decide.

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

This is even from a different website with the same numbers.

 

[Ken-1122]

High crime rates, high policing rates, and any rate of police brutality disproportionately affecting Black people is, by definition, systemic racism. You’re clearly very invested in denying this fact. Let’s explore why that is.

Are you seriously gonna suggest if black people experience a disproportionate amount of police brutality because they commit a disproportionate amount of crime, this is the definition of police brutality? Do you have an outside source that supports this claim?

 

[BNR32FAN]

High crime rates, high policing rates, and any rate of police brutality disproportionately affecting Black people is, by definition, systemic racism. You’re clearly very invested in denying this fact. Let’s explore why that is.

What happens to you if you’re presented with undeniable proof that systemic racism exists? Why is it so important to you that this cannot be the case?

No it’s not because the determining factor is the crime rate not race. I can remember back in the 70s-90s black communities said they were being discriminated against because there wasn’t enough police presence in black communities. They said that the lack of police presence was the reason why there were higher crime rates in black communities. And now that we’ve increased police presence the crime rates are still high and people are blaming police presence for the high crime rate now.

 

[gaara4158]

No it’s not because the determining factor is the crime rate not race. I can remember back in the 70s-90s black communities said they were being discriminated against because there wasn’t enough police presence in black communities. They said that the lack of police presence was the reason why there were higher crime rates in black communities. And now that we’ve increased police presence the crime rates are still high and people are blaming police presence for the high crime rate now.

That’s not what’s happening here, but you’re still very visibly averse to admitting that racial disparities exist in the US in present day, and I’m really interested in finding out why. Care to comment?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Oh yeah, Uber drivers and Wal+Mart workers deal with the same people and the same type of circumstances that cops deal with.

You know who they call when they do have someone that's a bad guy? The cops.

[/QUOTE]

No, they don’t deal with the same set of people, so there ought to be some disparity. But at the same time, the overwhelming majority of these police interactions are benign and non-threatening. They’re mostly not chasing bank robbers and car thieves. They’re mostly traffic stops and other ticketing infractions, questionings, and calls for service or assistance after an event has already occurred. A lot of these interactions are with folks who aren’t even suspected of a crime.

Either way, the question was whether or not these rates constitute “rare.” “Rare” is a subjective term in this context, but when we apply the same benchmark to other professions, we come up with rates that would be absurdly high - so high that they’d represent an existential threat to the very business. Nobody would use Uber if their drivers were assaulting people that frequently.

So yes it's a very small amount that is not appalling.

There are .04% of use of force complaints. 10% are upheld making it .00004% upheld.

I wouldn't call that appauling.

Would you have called it appalling if you’d done your math correctly? 10% of 0.04% is 0.004% (i.e. 1 in 25,000) not 0.00004% (i.e. 1 in 2.5 million). You’re off by a factor of 100. I already covered the 1 in 25,000 rate in my previous post.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That’s not what’s happening here, but you’re still very visibly averse to admitting that racial disparities exist in the US in present day, and I’m really interested in finding out why. Care to comment?

Sure I’ll comment on that. The big question is WHY. WHY do these inconsistencies exist? It’s not about whether they exist or not it’s about WHY they exist. My wife & two daughters who are Filipino eat more rice than my son & I who are white. OH NO!! That’s a discrepancy!! My son & I must be racists because we make them eat rice while we get to eat other things. THAT’S NOT FAIR!! But the fact of the matter is they eat more rice than my son & I because they choose to, not because they’re forced to. So this is one just example of how discrepancies don’t always involve racism because the determining factor is why these discrepancies exist not whether or not they do exist.

 

[Ana the Ist]

0.04% is 1 in 2500, which is not rare at all. That would be considered unacceptably high in virtually every other context.

That's extremely rare....given the nature of the work they do.

Worldwide, the average Walmart store has about 23,000 customers per week. By your assessment, if each and every Walmart store beat up 9 people every week, you would consider that "extremely rare."

Walmart sells garbage...it's not a business that uses force in high pressure situations.

Also, we're talking about complaints...not convictions.

Does each and every Walmart store receive 9 complaints a week?

In 2019, US airlines carried 927 million passengers. 0.04% of that is 370,800. By your assessment, airline pilots could beat up 370,000 people per year - or over 1,000 people PER DAY - yet it would still be considered "extremely rare".

Again, this is a poor analogy. Do US airlines get 1000 complaints a day?

In 2019, Uber drivers made 6.9 billion trips. 0.04% of that is 2.76 million. By your assessment, Uber drivers could beat up 2.76 million passengers a year - or 1 every 11.4 seconds - and it would be "extremely rare."

Again, poor analogy....

No, this is not "extremely rare." Assuming your numbers are correct, this is extremely common. Maybe it's about time we expect the people with guns to behave as well as everybody else.

No...extremely rare would be the correct description. For example....

Redirect Notice

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www.google.com

As you can see...you have far bigger problems with teachers and school staff in schools than you do with police. Yet somehow, people are more than willing to trust these people with sexualizing their children starting in kindergarten.

You understand what the big difference is here....right? Police need to use force frequently during an arrest....as they're assaulted tens of thousands of times a year. Teachers never need to sexually abuse, harass, or assault a student....it's not part of their job.

If you had your priorities straight...you'd be demanding body cameras on the teachers and in the classrooms.

 

[gaara4158]

Sure I’ll comment on that. The big question is WHY. WHY do these inconsistencies exist? It’s not about whether they exist or not it’s about WHY they exist. My wife & two daughters who are Filipino eat more rice than my son & I who are white. OH NO!! That’s a discrepancy!! My son & I must be racists because we make them eat rice while we get to eat other things. THAT’S NOT FAIR!! But the fact of the matter is they eat more rice than my son & I because they choose to, not because they’re forced to. So this is one just example of how discrepancies don’t always involve racism because the determining factor is why these discrepancies exist not whether or not they do exist.

Interesting. So it’s about the threat of being called a racist for you? Ironically, if you took the time to really comprehend what the scholars and I are talking about, you’d recognize that systemic racism doesn’t have anything to do with people being racist. Systemic racism isn’t about racism as a determining factor, it’s about unjust racial disparities as an outcome. You denying that systemic racism exists thus ends up making you more of a racist actor than simply admitting that it does.

 

[Bradskii]

...systemic racism doesn’t have anything to do with people being racist. Systemic racism isn’t about racism as a determining factor, it’s about unjust racial disparities as an outcome.

Well over a thousand posts and it's about time this was pointed out. Although it won't change the conversation because those who deny that anything like systemic racism exists will ignore it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Interesting. So it’s about the threat of being called a racist for you? Ironically, if you took the time to really comprehend what the scholars and I are talking about, you’d recognize that systemic racism doesn’t have anything to do with people being racist.

You should probably stop calling it racism then.

Systemic racism isn’t about racism as a determining factor, it’s about unjust racial disparities as an outcome. You denying that systemic racism exists thus ends up making you more of a racist actor than simply admitting that it does.

You're assuming outcomes are unjust....not showing it. If you aren't talking about anything systemic or racist....you should stop calling it systemic racism and just call it different racial outcomes.

 

[Pommer]

You should probably stop calling it racism then.




You're assuming outcomes are unjust....not showing it. If you aren't talking about anything systemic or racist....you should stop calling it systemic racism and just call it different racial outcomes.

Different racial outcomes.