Was the gospel that Jesus preached different to Israel under the law of Moses different to the gospel Paul preached to the world under grace.

[Soyeong]

No. Paul confirmed that he preached the gospel of Jesus.

There is no salvation to eternal life under the Law of Moses. There never was...for anyone. And the Jews knew that, which is why the rich young ruler asked what more than the Law (because he knew he fully kept the Law) did he have to do to be saved.

Everyone is saved by grace, both Jew and Gentile. That is the gospel of Jesus.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of Jesus. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to rely on the law that God has instructed for salvation to eternal life is to rely on God, while to deny that we should rely on the law that God has instructed for salvation to eternal life is to deny that we should rely on God.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted God to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is again is salvation grace through faith. Likewise, in Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Luke 10:25-28, obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life. In Matthew 19:17, obedience to God's commandments is the way to enter eternal life. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus is a source of eternal salvation for all who obey him. In Revelation 22:14, eternal life is given to those who obeyed God's commandments.

No, it's not forgetting that putting God's will ahead of our own is the key point of everything. But not even perfectly obeying the first commandment can save without God's grace. There is nothing a man can do that is salvational. We are saved by God's grace.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to do these works is itself part of the content of His gift of salvation, and it is false that there is nothiing a man can do that is salvational.

 

[Soyeong]

God's will is that we believe in Jesus, John 6:40.

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus contrasted those who do the will of the Father with those who are workers of lawlessness, so we don't need to hop to a different book in order to figure out what God has made His will known through His law, though that is also confirmed in Psalms 40:8, and God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus.

 

[Strong in Him]

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus contrasted those who do the will of the Father with those who are workers of lawlessness, so we don't need to hop to a different book in order to figure out what God has made His will known through His law, though that is also confirmed in Psalms 40:8, and God's law is His instructions for how to believe in Jesus.

Jesus himself said that it is God's will that whoever believes in the Son will have eternal life. So we don't need to assume that keeping the law is involved.
Jesus came to show us God, teach us about him and how do live for him; the law does not do that.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus himself said that it is God's will that whoever believes in the Son will have eternal life. So we don't need to assume that keeping the law is involved.
Jesus came to show us God, teach us about him and how do live for him; the law does not do that.

Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17) and that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments (Luke 10:25-28). Likewise, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life (Roman 2:6-7), eternal life is given to those who obeyed God's commandments (Revelation 22:14), and Jesus is a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him (Hebrews 5:9). In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which again is eternal life (John 17:3). So all of these verses combined with the fact that the way to have eternal life is by believing in the Son means that obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in the Son.

The the Son is the word of God made flesh (John 1:14) and God's law is God's word. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact image of God's nature, which he expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so again, following his example of obedience to it is the way to believe in the nature of who the Son is. God's law is the way (Psalms 119:1-3), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:47), and the way to know the Father, and Jesus is the living embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-7), so your claim that the law does not do that is false.

 

[timothyu]

obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in the Son.

Yes, look what happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed, let alone the many stories in the Bible of similar behaviour. Those stories of rebellion to the will of God are no different than saying thou shalt not. Should they be ignored too?

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17)

Jesus also said, on more than one occasion, that HE gave eternal life, John 3:16, John 6:29, John 6:40, John 6:53.

and that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments (Luke 10:25-28).

Jesus gave us a new commandment; to love as he loved us. The word that he used for love here is Agape - God's divine love. We cannot love as God loves - loving sinners, our enemies and those who don't deserve even friendship - unless we have first received that love from God.

So it's not possible to obey the command that Jesus gave us unless we know him, have received his love, been born again and have the fruit of love growing in us.

Jesus is a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him (Hebrews 5:9).

It's because Jesus loves us and has saved us, that we obey him.
Your statement makes it sound as thought we obey him, try ever so hard ourselves and then he says, "yep, ok; I'll save you."
Salvation comes first. We love because God loved us.

So all of these verses combined with the fact that the way to have eternal life is by believing in the Son means that obedience to God's commandments is the way to believe in the Son.

Again, we cannot love as he loved us - with divine, Agape love, unless we have first received it.
The most loving, charitable person in the world might be an atheist or a Muslim. They are not given eternal life because of their good deeds and loving nature. If they don't accept Jesus, they are still lost.

God's law is the way (Psalms 119:1-3), the truth (Psalms 119:142), and the life (Deuteronomy 32:47), and the way to know the Father, and Jesus is the living embodiment of the way, the truth, and the life, and the way to know the Father (John 14:6-7), so your claim that the law does not do that is false.

No.
JESUS is the Way, the Truth and the Life, John 14:6. The law might have showed people the way - Jesus IS the Way. The law might have shown people truth, or even foreshadowed the Gospel. But Jesus IS Truth. The law might show people how to live, but Jesus IS the Life, and came so that we could have fulness of life, John 10:10.
People who have never heard of/read the law can still receive Jesus, then they will be saved, know the truth and have life.
The law is not greater than Jesus.

 

[timothyu]

So it's not possible to obey the command that Jesus gave us unless we know him, have received his love, been born again and have the fruit of love growing in us.

Wouldn't it be simpler just to understand the concept and live by it, thus repenting of the old thinking? Jesus' movement was revolutionary in that it needed no one to be forced into it. It happened freely. People have no problem accepting a new way when they are no longer defensive of old ways taught since birth that lead to endless woes. They are already looking for it.

 

[Clare73]

Gospel of the kingdom or the gospel of grace which one is it ?

They are one and the same.

Jesus could not reveal forgiveness of sin (grace) by faith in his death (Ro 3:25) before his death.
He announced the Kingdom, of which he was its coming (Lk 11:20), and in which kingdom forgiveness would be by grace through faith.
His apostles preached the forgiveness of sin through faith in him and his atoning sacrifice (blood, Ro 3:25) in that Kingdom.

But there is only one gospel to all mankind--forgiveness of sin and salvation from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9).
And there is only one Kingdom, which is unending, eternal (Lk 1:33), set up at his first coming (Lk 11:20).
It is spiritual; i.e., invisible and within (Lk 17:20-21) the hearts where he reigns and rules.
There is, and will be no other Kingdom of God than the unending Kingdom Jesus established at his first coming.
It is not an earthly kingdom of this world (Jn 18:36), it is a spiritual kingdom.

Another kingdom of God is derived from personal interpretation of prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) in a manner which contradicts NT apostolic teaching.

 

[timothyu]

There is, and will be no other Kingdom of God than the unending Kingdom Jesus established at his first coming.

And yet man continually tries to build them in His name but in our way.

 

[Clare73]

And yet man continually tries to build them in His name but in our way.

I don't see anyone trying to build a spiritual invisible (Lk 17:20-21) kingdom of God (singular) in man's way. . .

 

[timothyu]

I don't see anyone trying to build a spiritual invisible (Lk 17:20-21) kingdom of God (singular) in man's way. . .

Certainly.. every sect of Christianity sets up shop modelling the Kingdom upon the earthy ways of man with it's institutions, symbols, rituals, buildings, statues, etc..

 

[Clare73]

Certainly.. every sect of Christianity sets up shop modelling the Kingdom upon the earthy ways of man with it's institutions, symbols, rituals, buildings, statues, etc..

The Kingdom is not of this world (Jn 18:36), it is spiritual.
Those aren't spiritual.

 

[timothyu]

The Kingdom is spiritual.
Those aren't spiritual.

Of course the Kingdom is spiritual. It is the will of God. Yet man brings it down to our level and makes a religion out of it rather than a movement. Movements are ideals and are all built upon and follow spiritual motivation. They remain a matter of the heart and mind until some human tries to capitalize on it and turn it into a material institution.

 

[Clare73]

Of course the Kingdom is spiritual. It is the will of God. Yet man brings it down to our level and makes a religion out of it

I have no idea what that actually means.
What does "brings it down to our level" mean? . . .to bring the kingdom down to our level?
What does "makes a religion out of it" mean? . . .to make the kingdom spiritual?
That is talking in circles.

rather than a movement. Movements are ideals and are all built upon and follow spiritual motivation. They remain a matter of the heart and mind until some human tries to capitalize on it and turn it into a material institution.

That is mumbo jumbo.

What is to "turn the kingdom of God into a material institution"?

The Kingdom of God is not an "ideal" nor a "movement."
It is actual, God in you, the hope of glory, transforming your character and actual life into conformity with his Son.

 

[timothyu]

What does "brings it down to our level" mean? . . .to bring the kingdom down to our level?

To interpret what is not of this world (be it it a concept or a thing) and describe it using what is familiar to man.

 

[timothyu]

The Kingdom of God is not an "ideal" nor a "movement."
It is actual, God in you, the hope of glory, transforming your character and actual life into conformity with his Son.

Yes , it is not a material thing.

 

[Clare73]

To interpret what is not of this world (be it it a concept or a thing) and describe it using what is familiar to man.

That sounds like a good thing, not a bad thing, as I understood you to be presenting it.
Is that not what Jesus did in the parables?

 

[Clare73]

Yes , it is not a material thing.

So how does man capitalize the non-material and turn it into a material institution?

 

[timothyu]

Is that not what Jesus did in the parables?

Mark 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto dthem that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12 eThat seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

 

[timothyu]

So how does man capitalize the non-material and turn it into a material institution

By focusing on religious governments complete with palaces and rule enforcers, something God by saying My will before the will of man never did