Spurgeon Preached Old Earth Creationism

[Bungle_Bear]

That's lack of understanding on our part.

Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

 

[inquiring mind]

I guess an inquiring mind as defined by you is one that stops enquiring when the facts detract from previous beliefs.

Best state that upfront as it can save an enormous amount of time and effort all round.

I doubt it will save any time and effort from non-believers' attempts to discredit God as our Creator, but I have changed the custom title under my user name to align more with my belief, and make it clear that I sometimes associate with those who I don't really learn from.

 

[Bradskii]

I doubt it will save any time and effort from non-believers' attempts to discredit God as our Creator...

God was not the subject of my post.

 

[Ophiolite]

Imagine the energy required to tear the world apart and belch up so much water. Now imagine the heat that would generate. Now explain how it all froze in a matter of hours, then didn't melt as the next wave of boiling gases and water swept over it.

I thought it was kind and courteous of you to ask @inquiring mind to imagine these things, rather than asking them to calculate them. The act of a gentleman.

 

[doubtingmerle]

We've discussed this before, haven't we?

Post 209

OK, so now we go back to 2018 where you said:

Okay, so if I told you then that it is possible that God could have layered the earth like it is, in accordance with the way He wrote His scriptures ...​

​

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:​

​

... when He cleaned up after the Flood and terraformed the Earth back to a habitable planet within the space of one or two weeks, you would what?​

​

OK, so God took millions of cubic miles of dirt and fossils after the flood and arranged them in neat layers. These layers are often more than 2 miles deep. Worldwide they follow the same pattern of Cambrian rocks below Ordovician, which are below the Silurian all the way up through 12 periods. Then all this is interlaced with volcanic rock. It strains the imagination to consider this is credible.

Inquiring Mind says all these layers were formed by the chaotic floodwaters themselves, a view that you and I appear to agree is not credible. No flood would ever deposit miles of neatly layered fossils worldwide.

Where did all the fossil come from? As we discussed, just the crinoids (a marine animal) needed to make the Mission Canyon-Livingstone unit in the Canadian Rockies would require crinoids to be stacked up 3" deep throughout the world. That is just the crinoids for one limited formation. This doesn't account for all the other crinoids in the Mississippian layer throughout the world. (Source). Then there are all those other layers. How were all those animals living on the earth at the same time?

Corrected to say "animal" instead of "mammal"--doubtingmerle

 

[Astrid]

I guess an inquiring mind as defined by you is one that stops enquiring when the facts detract from previous beliefs.

Best state that upfront as it can save an enormous amount of time and effort all round.

Hey that's what I said but I used a lot more words

 

[Astrophile]

Where did all the fossils come from? As we discussed, just the crinoids (a marine mammal) needed to make the Mission Canyon-Livingstone unit in the Canadian Rockies would require crinoids to be stacked up 3" deep throughout the world. That is just the crinoids for one limited formation. This doesn't account for all the other crinoids in the Mississippian layer throughout the world. (Source). Then there are all those other layers. How were all those animals living on the earth at the same time?

Crinoids were echinoderms, not mammals.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Crinoids were echinoderms, not mammals.

Thanks. I fixed the mistake. I meant to say "animal", not "mammal".

 

[Astrid]

I doubt it will save any time and effort from non-believers' attempts to discredit God as our Creator, but I have changed the custom title under my user name to align more with my belief, and make it clear that I sometimes associate with those who I don't really learn from.

Don't learn because you refuse to?

Try learning this from me:
Nobody is trying to " discredit god".

This is a total misunderstanding on your
part.

You try to discredit research that you
know nothing about, with absurd
nonsense that you just make up.
Who is discredited by that?
Science isn't, and for sure God isn't.

There are many many ways to interpret
the Bible. Interpretations that match
observable facts hardly discredit god.

Interpretations such as that grasshopper
really do have 4 legs, or that Antarctic ice
was made by the "flood" are patently
ridiculous.
Beliefs like those are not about faith in God
but faith in ones self as being infallible-
as in "no chance I am wrong".

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, so God took millions of cubic miles of dirt and fossils after the flood and arranged them in neat layers.

Some of the debris He probably sent to various places off the earth, some He buried in the ground by collocation,* some He left on the surface (white cliffs).

* The technical term for this is: "cleaning up."

These layers are often more than 2 miles deep.

Is that all? just two miles?

Has it occurred to you, Merle, that we human beings don't have x-ray vision; but there are other forms of life that do?

Like angels.

Any angels looking deep into the earth would see a series of layers of dead debris and animals, LAID DOWN IN AN ORDER THAT MOTHER NATURE CAN'T DO, and be reminded of the Flood?

Or do you think inside the box, to the point where you think God had only us humans in mind, when He cleaned up His mess?

Oh ... that's right.

Some people deny the spiritual world.

Then they can't understand anything, because everything they see, find, or assume should align with natural occurrences by way of uniformitarianism.

Worldwide they follow the same pattern of Cambrian rocks below Ordovician, which are below the Silurian all the way up through 12 periods.

Yes -- in academia's fantasy world of stretched time.

The example I used recently is like stretching the street you live on to the length of 23,000,000 miles, then claiming you don't have any neighbors.

All 12 of those periods existed at the same time; but if you're going to stretch them out to a period of billions of years, then of course they are going to look like they came one after another.

Then all this is interlaced with volcanic rock. It strains the imagination to consider this is credible.

Yes -- it would strain the imagination of someone thinking inside of a box the size of the period at the end of this sentence.

(Okay ... I'm exaggerating. The size of a pixel.)

Inquiring Mind says all these layers were formed by the chaotic floodwaters themselves, a view that you and I appear to agree is not credible.

The term you're looking for is "hydrological sorting."

No flood would ever deposit miles of neatly layered fossils worldwide.

That is correct.

Academia's gods (Gaia, Mother Nature, the Nine Muses) cannot do that.

It would take a miracle from the true God to do all that work.

Where did all the fossil come from?

Where they're supposed to come from.

As we discussed, just the crinoids (a marine animal) needed to make the Mission Canyon-Livingstone unit in the Canadian Rockies would require crinoids to be stacked up 3" deep throughout the world.

Wow.

And how many inches deep would the white cliffs stack up to?

That is just the crinoids for one limited formation.

Yup -- don't forget the white cliffs that God swept up into neat piles and left here on the surface to remind us of the Flood.

(Not to mention meandering streams that etched serpentine designs into the earth's surface.)

This doesn't account for all the other crinoids in the Mississippian layer throughout the world. (Source).

Neat.

Then there are all those other layers.

Neat.

How were all those animals living on the earth at the same time?

Maybe God put them all over the earth in Genesis 1 in a split-second of time?

You know, like He did the trees and other gymnosperms?

 

[AV1611VET]

Interpretations such as that grasshoppers really do have 4 legs,

Four? I thought they had only three!?

 

[driewerf]

I don't have a clue what you think you're saying.

Doubtingmerle in post n° 39:
“When I had asked you if you thought dinosaurs had lived long before humans, you replied, "Long before." So you seems to agree that dinosaurs could have lived long before there was a single human.

Your dispute seems to be with how long "long before" is. Why is that an important issue for you? After all, informed scientists have an overwhelming consensus that the earth is many millions of years old. Why do you dispute it?

I explain how we know the fossil record represents millions of years here.

Regarding flood geology, no, that does not explain it. I answer that here,

If the flood buried the dinosaurs, why does every dinosaur fossil fall in layers that date over 60 million years ago, and every human fossil in layers that date under 2 million years ago?”

Summary: What we see is in direct contradiction with what we expect to see from a global Flood.

Inquiring Mind in post n° 43 :
“You can't explain it, so it didn't happen??? No thanks, I'm sticking with the Bible and still going with 'we don't know how God did it.' “

Driewerf in post n° 77:
“That is not what doubtingmerle wrote. You have either a severe lack reading comprehension skills or are breaking the 9th commandment.
Summarized, doubtingmerle wrote that all he evidence is contrary to what a Flood would cause in the fossil record. NOT "we can't explain it". “
I am going now reinforce the point made by Doubtingmerle in post n°39 and by Driewerf in post n° 77:
We can perfectly explain what we see (contrary to what is claimed by Inquiring Mind in post n°43. It doesn’t fit what we expect to see from a global Flood. Hence a global Flood has been disproven. Post n°43 is a wrong summary of Doubtingmerle’s post n° 39.

Clear now?

 

[driewerf]

Isn't glacier ice a type of rock?

No. Rocks are made of silica. Ice is made of water.
Rocks form either through volcanic eruptions or compaction of sedimentary deposits. Glaciers form through precipitation of snow and ice.

 

[inquiring mind]

No. Rocks are made of silica. Ice is made of water.
Rocks form either through volcanic eruptions or compaction of sedimentary deposits. Glaciers form through precipitation of snow and ice.

Just when you guys have me thinking I'm dumb... https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/glacier-ice-type-rock

 

[inquiring mind]

Doubtingmerle in post n° 39:
“When I had asked you if you thought dinosaurs had lived long before humans, you replied, "Long before." So you seems to agree that dinosaurs could have lived long before there was a single human.

Your dispute seems to be with how long "long before" is. Why is that an important issue for you? After all, informed scientists have an overwhelming consensus that the earth is many millions of years old. Why do you dispute it?

I explain how we know the fossil record represents millions of years here.

Regarding flood geology, no, that does not explain it. I answer that here,

If the flood buried the dinosaurs, why does every dinosaur fossil fall in layers that date over 60 million years ago, and every human fossil in layers that date under 2 million years ago?”

Summary: What we see is in direct contradiction with what we expect to see from a global Flood.

Inquiring Mind in post n° 43 :
“You can't explain it, so it didn't happen??? No thanks, I'm sticking with the Bible and still going with 'we don't know how God did it.' “

Driewerf in post n° 77:
“That is not what doubtingmerle wrote. You have either a severe lack reading comprehension skills or are breaking the 9th commandment.
Summarized, doubtingmerle wrote that all he evidence is contrary to what a Flood would cause in the fossil record. NOT "we can't explain it". “
I am going now reinforce the point made by Doubtingmerle in post n°39 and by Driewerf in post n° 77:
We can perfectly explain what we see (contrary to what is claimed by Inquiring Mind in post n°43. It doesn’t fit what we expect to see from a global Flood. Hence a global Flood has been disproven. Post n°43 is a wrong summary of Doubtingmerle’s post n° 39.

Clear now?

From your interpretation, not at all. You guys spout all this stuff like it's obvious and ironclad. However, your knowledge of the subject is extremely lacking. And, comments like 'we can perfectly explain' get a chuckle from God I'm sure.

 

[Astrid]

No. Rocks are made of silica. Ice is made of water.
Rocks form either through volcanic eruptions or compaction of sedimentary deposits. Glaciers form through precipitation of snow and ice.

And irrelevant to whether it floats.

Just when you guys have me thinking I'm dumb... https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/glacier-ice-type-rock

I don't think you are dumb.
I dont know many things I don't know
and I could make myself look stupid
arguing insurance or whatever you know and
I dont.
You know next to nothing about historical
geology, and look silly arguing and making
up.

So the USGS considers glacial ice a rock.
OK, now I know that.

It's irrelevant to the subject though.

Will you accept USGS on the age of
polar ice, or do you 9nly accept what you
like?

 

[inquiring mind]

God was not the subject of my post.

He should be.

 

[driewerf]

From your interpretation, not at all. You guys spout all this stuff like it's obvious and ironclad. However, your knowledge of the subject is extremely lacking. And, comments like 'we can perfectly explain' get a chuckle from God I'm sure.

Don't move the goalposts.
You misrepresented Doubtingmerle's post n° 39 which can be summarized as "we see things that contradict the Flood";
Now you are misrepresenting my post again.
The first requirements for a polite, civil and constructive dialogue is to correctly represent your interlocutor's position. Something you have failed to do twice.

 

[Bradskii]

He should be.

If you post anything then my comments will be directed to you and prompted by what you post.

 

[inquiring mind]

And irrelevant to whether it floats.

I don't think you are dumb.
I dont know many things I don't know
and I could make myself look stupid
arguing insurance or whatever you know and
I dont.
You know next to nothing about historical
geology, and look silly arguing and making
up.

So the USGS considers glacial ice a rock.
OK, now I know that.

It's irrelevant to the subject though.

Will you accept USGS on the age of
polar ice, or do you 9nly accept what you
like?

Also from the USGS site:

How old is glacier ice?​

The age of the oldest glacier ice in Antarctica may approach 1,000,000 years old The age of the oldest glacier ice in Greenland is more than 100,000 years old The age of the oldest Alaskan glacier ice ever recovered (from a basin between Mt. Bona and Mt. Churchill) is about 30,000 years old. Glacier flow moves newly formed ice through the entire length of a typical Alaskan valley glacier in 100...

I'm thinking...