Kylie's Apple Challenge

[HARK!]

You haven't proven your claim either.

See: Burden of Proof

And I've read the Bible. Why do believers always think that atheists haven't read the Bible?

I didn't say that you haven't. It seems that you have jumped to another unfounded conclusion.

Keep trying!

 

[Kylie]

See: Burden of Proof

I understand what the burden of proof is.

And when you said there were scientific papers discussing how the Big Bang never happened, it fell squarely on your shoulders to support that claim by producing them. And you ahve refused to do so.

I didn't say that you haven't. It seems that you have jumped to another unfounded conclusion.

Keep trying!

Ah yes, because the sources I referenced obviously had NOT read the Bible at all.

Let's see, who were those sources?

The first one was CARM, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry, one of the oldest and largest Christian apologetics sites on the net. They claim that the Bible is "The Bible is the Word of God, and its original manuscripts are free from all errors and contradictions." They also claim, "The Bible is to be taken as literally as possible except where obviously figurative. Genesis, for example, is literal, and Adam and Eve were actual people." But they obviously haven't read the Bible, or they'd agree with you.

The second source I referenced was Faith Gateway, and they say, "The Bible is God’s unique revelation to mankind, the inspired, infallible Word of God. As such, it is the supreme and final authority and without error in what it teaches and affirms. No other writings are vested with such divine authority." I guess they are ignorant of the Bible as well.

The third source is an article written by Don Stewart, and according to his site he's an internationally recognized Christian apologist and speaker. He graduated cum laude from Talbot Theological Seminary and the International Seminar in Theology and Law in Strasbourg, France, as well as from Biola University. Don is also a best-selling and award-winning author/co-author of over seventy books. His various writings have been translated into over thirty different languages and have sold over a million copies. Don has traveled around the world proclaiming and staunchly defending the Christian faith. But I guess he just doesn't understand the Bible.

The fourth source I referenced was Creation dot com. You want to tell me they are ignorant about the Bible?

The fifth site was Every Student, another apologist website. Again, this is a website DEVOTED to Christianity and the Bible.

The sixth site was from Ministry 127, a website that has articles written by actual church leaders, and I'm sure you'll agree that it's literally their job to read, study, and understand the Bible. The particular author of that website was Dr John Goetsch, who has been educated at Maranatha Baptist Bible College, Bethany Divinity College & Seminary, Maranatha Baptist Bible College and Bethany Divinity College & Seminary. He majored in Pastoral Theology Concentration, Church Ministries Concentration, Evangelism Concentration, Master of Biblical Studies, and Master of Christian Education. So I think he's very well qualified to know what he's talking about.

And they ALL disagree with you.

So, I ask you again, why should I conclude that they are wrong, with all of their qualifications, and you are right?

 

[HARK!]

So, I ask you again, why should I conclude that they are wrong, with all of their qualifications, and you are right?

I ask you again to just post the scripture to prove your claim.

Since you have already read the Bible for yourself; it shouldn't be that difficult for you. You shouldn't have to go scouring the web for hearsay and opinion, in a feeble attempt to prove your claim.

I've read the Bible too, lots of times. I would suggest looking carefully at Genesis 1; but I haven't found proof of your claim in any of the many translations that I have read, nor in any of the Hebrew manuscripts.

 

[J_B_]

In which Case, all that God did was start the Big Bang going and he's been sitting back just watching ever since.

That is one view - an aspect of deism and gnosticism. That is not, however, my view.

 

[Estrid]

Can we not say that about everyone? We all believe we base our reasoning on what actually is, but we don't all agree on what actually is. We must start with a set of assumptions about what is and is not real. If our assumptions are contradictory, then we will never agree.

I'd say, speak for yourself.

 

[Kylie]

I ask you again to just post the scripture to prove your claim.

Since you have already read the Bible for yourself; it shouldn't be that difficult for you. You shouldn't have to go scouring the web for hearsay and opinion, in a feeble attempt to prove your claim.

I've read the Bible too, lots of times. I would suggest looking carefully at Genesis 1; but I haven't found proof of your claim in any of the many translations that I have read, nor in any of the Hebrew manuscripts.

Each of the sources backed up their opinion with specific verses.

The fact you disagree does not make it invalid.

 

[HARK!]

Each of the sources backed up their opinion with specific verses.

The fact you disagree does not make it invalid.

The fact that it is an opinion does not validate it as a fact.

I'm not interested in their opinions.

I'm interested in your proof of your assertion with facts.

Providing weakly formed opinions does not prove your assertion.

The Bible claims that the universe was created ex nihilo.

You have repeatedly failed to show me where ANY Bible, or ANY Biblical manuscript makes this claim.

I call bunk. Unless you can show me the scripture to prove otherwise; I'll continue to regard it as bunk.

 

[Kylie]

The fact that it is an opinion does not validate it as a fact.

I'm not interested in their opinions.

I'm interested in your proof of your assertion with facts.

Providing weakly formed opinions does not prove your assertion.

And yet your position is based on YOUR opinion.

Tell me, why should I accept your opinion when you demand I reject theirs? They are either significant creationist websites or are people who are educated in theology. In either case, they are definitely able to speak from research and study of the Bible about this issue. Since you refuse to share details of your education, I am forced to conclude that they are more qualified than you when it comes to the Bible.

You have repeatedly failed to show me where ANY Bible, or ANY Biblical manuscript makes this claim.

I call bunk. Unless you can show me the scripture to prove otherwise; I'll continue to regard it as bunk.

And as I specifically pointed out, the sources I cite directly referenced the Biblically passage they used to form the conclusions. Did you not read them?

 

[HARK!]

And yet your position is based on YOUR opinion.

My position is based on your inability to prove your assertion.

Tell me, why should I accept your opinion when you demand I reject theirs? They are either significant creationist websites or are people who are educated in theology. In either case, they are definitely able to speak from research and study of the Bible about this issue. Since you refuse to share details of your education, I am forced to conclude that they are more qualified than you when it comes to the Bible.

Non sequitur

And as I specifically pointed out, the sources I cite directly referenced the Biblically passage they used to form the conclusions. Did you not read them?

In other words you can't provide scripture to prove your assertion.

 

[dlamberth]

What evidence?

A complete and total lack of evidence.

 

[Yttrium]

You find an apple. Alongside it is a document (written by a person you trust completely, but whom you are unable to contact at the moment) that says that the apple was created ex nihilo. You subject the apple to testing, and all tests indicate that the apple was not created ex nihilo, but grew on a tree in the regular way that apples grow.

I'm coming in way late on this, but...

Someone I trust completely? That's weirder than the ex nihilo thing... So since that doesn't work, I'll consider the grown-on-a-tree answer to be by far the mostly likely explanation

 

[Estrid]

And yet your position is based on YOUR opinion.

Tell me, why should I accept your opinion when you demand I reject theirs? They are either significant creationist websites or are people who are educated in theology. In either case, they are definitely able to speak from research and study of the Bible about this issue. Since you refuse to share details of your education, I am forced to conclude that they are more qualified than you when it comes to the Bible.



And as I specifically pointed out, the sources I cite directly referenced the Biblically passage they used to form the conclusions. Did you not read them?

I always usually say that atheists know the
Bible better than Christians do most of the time.
Don't let me down now!

 

[SelfSim]

Where did the universe come from?
Science Proves Creation

UPDATE:

Since that thread was created, new evidence has come forth which would suggest that the Big Bang didn't happen.

SCIENCE!

My question (curiosity): Why wasn't that thread posted in the Physical Sciences forum?

 

[AV1611VET]

In always usually say that atheists know the
Bible better than Christians do most of the time.

Really?

Test them and see.

Ask them:

1. What is God the Father's name?
2. What is Satan's angelic name?

 

[SelfSim]

Test them and see.

Ask them:

1. What is God the Father's name?

God.

2. What is Satan's angelic name?

Satan.

 

[AV1611VET]

God.
Satan.

You don't count.

You're not an atheist.

 

[SelfSim]

You don't count.

You're not an atheist.

Ah dunno .. always 'any excuse will do' wiff ya ..
Exclusionism it always is! .. Just sayin' ..

 

[Kylie]

My position is based on your inability to prove your assertion.

No, your position is that there are scientific papers showing that the Big Bang did not happen.

Non sequitur

No it is not.

Person A tells me that the opinion of Person B can be rejected because it is simply an opinion, yet does not also understand that Person A's opinion can also be rejected for the same reason.

In other words you can't provide scripture to prove your assertion.

In other words, you couldn't be bothered to read my source.

It's not like it was even hard or anything. Why, some of the passages I quoted from them in this thread even had the passages mentioned! You didn't even need to click on the links to see them! All you had to do was look at my post! Did you not even do that?

 

[Kylie]

I always usually say that atheists know the
Bible better than Christians do most of the time.
Don't let me down now!

In my experience, believers tend to reject any claim an atheist makes about the Bible. I figured if I showed actual creationists and believers providing Bible verses that show it, it would be harder to ignore.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In my experience, believers tend to reject any claim an atheist makes about the Bible. I figured if I showed actual creationists and believers providing Bible verses that show it, it would be harder to ignore.

Yes, this can be the case quite often, but just keep in mind that not all of us "believers" reject every and any claim an atheist makes.