Praying to the saints

[Xeno.of.athens]

I like to invoke the saints in prayer. Asking things like

Saint Isidore of Seville pray to the Lord our God for the stability and usefulness of our internet connections.​

When my internet connection is not stable, or non-existent. And also, things such as this

Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for me, a sinner, now and at the hour of my death.​

When I approach God through Jesus Christ for the things most needed for eternal life and godliness.

I have heard from some that such prayers are in some way undesirable. And to them that may be so, but for me these are part of my faith in God and the promises he has made regarding the state of the saints who have passed out of this world's day to day life.

The scriptures that I count as canonical includes passages that relate to the invocation of angels and saints. But I have heard some call those passages "apocryphal", yet to me that are part of my faith in God and his revealed purposes for me and the world as well as his saints in the heavens.

So, I wondered if those who have qualms about these practises give much thought to the deep meaning that they do have for the Catholic and Orthodox faithful.

 

[SimonPeter111]

you r a devout Catholic, I am now nominally a Catholic, but in reality I am almost a non-denominational Christian

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

you r a devout Catholic, I am now nominally a Catholic, but in reality I am almost a non-denominational Christian

How did it come about that you are now almost a non-denominational Christian and are a nominal Catholic?

 

[BobRyan]

So, I wondered if those who have qualms about these practises give much thought to the deep meaning that they do have for the Catholic and Orthodox faithful.

If other faiths view the dead as all-knowing, omni-present and able to hear and answer all prayers directed to them on Earth at the same time.. and if they find a text that is not in our Bible that seems to state explicitly that is the case (A text which I frankly have not seen) -- then my response is "they have free will... they can choose anything they wish".

But as for your question above: I don't know how something like that could have "deep meaning" for me given some of the gaps I find in that sort of logic.

But of course it probably does have deep meaning for you and also for the 7.9 billion people on planet Earth who also have other practices they hold to as having deep meaning. All of that does indeed exist.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

But as for your question above: I don't know how something like that could have "deep meaning" for me given some of the gaps I find in that sort of logic.

Do you feel like my original post was asking you to share in the deep meaning that Catholic and Orthodox Christians attach to those practises?

 

[Joined2krist]

you r a devout Catholic, I am now nominally a Catholic, but in reality I am almost a non-denominational Christian

It is quite difficult being a Catholic in China, praying for u all

 

[Philip_B]

I think I would say, 'I pray with the saints' and by that, I would include the saints both living and departed.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I like to invoke the saints in prayer. Asking things like

Saint Isidore of Seville pray to the Lord our God for the stability and usefulness of our internet connections.​

When my internet connection is not stable, or non-existent. And also, things such as this

Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for me, a sinner, now and at the hour of my death.​

When I approach God through Jesus Christ for the things most needed for eternal life and godliness.

I have heard from some that such prayers are in some way undesirable. And to them that may be so, but for me these are part of my faith in God and the promises he has made regarding the state of the saints who have passed out of this world's day to day life.

The scriptures that I count as canonical includes passages that relate to the invocation of angels and saints. But I have heard some call those passages "apocryphal", yet to me that are part of my faith in God and his revealed purposes for me and the world as well as his saints in the heavens.

So, I wondered if those who have qualms about these practises give much thought to the deep meaning that they do have for the Catholic and Orthodox faithful.

Some Christians prefer to go directly to our Father. Afterall, the veil was torn in two so that the Holy Spirit can be released to each and every believer. He now makes His Home in us. Blessings

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Some Christians prefer to go directly to our Father. Afterall, the veil was torn in two so that the Holy Spirit can be released to each and every believer. He now makes His Home in us. Blessings

Asking a friend to pray for me always seems like a good thing to me.

 

[Terri Dactyl]

Asking a friend to pray for me always seems like a good thing to me.

How is he/she going to hear you? Only God is omniscient.

 

[RileyG]

How is he/she going to hear you? Only God is omniscient.

We believe the Saints in heaven are living, not dead. They can pray for us and intercede for us because ti is no different than asking a living believer in Christ to pray for us.

Blessings

 

[RileyG]

Some Christians prefer to go directly to our Father. Afterall, the veil was torn in two so that the Holy Spirit can be released to each and every believer. He now makes His Home in us. Blessings

AMEN. But there is nothing wrong to ask the "multitude of witnesses" to pray to God for us IMO. (and the opinion of the early Church/other Christian churches)

 

[Terri Dactyl]

doesn't matter. If you think they are living, you still cannot ascribe to them the characteristics of God, who alone knows and hears. Man will never have those capacities. They cannot see you either. Only God is omniscient and omnipresent.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

How is he/she going to hear you? Only God is omniscient.

God hears and as a grace to the saints in heaven God enables his saint to hear.

 

[Blade]

Praying to Saints.. can't find this written.. then just thinking the word so many places talks about us being the temple of? God , holy spirit and Christ. So.. why would I pray to some saint when I can pray talk to the Great I am God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Jesus Christ who are in me and we are also one. It says I can come boldly before God "Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need".

Knowing just who Yeshua Jesus CHRIST really is why He came died. Just Matt to John Him telling us what ever you ask the Father in my name. What ever you ask me I will do it. On and on... again why would I pray to some saint that is not a god is only there because of what Jesus Christ has done.

So forgive me not here to offend but allot gets said and believed based on what man said not Gods word. Then when we by pass GOD and pray ask Him .. to ask man? Here on earth and in heaven? Don't talk to the dead.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I don't ask the saints in heaven to pray for me/us. But at the same time I also believe that they DO pray for us. So my asking them to pray isn't part of my practice, but I fully and completely believe in their prayer (and the prayer of the angels in heaven) because, well, it's biblical. In Zechariah we have explicit mention of angels praying for God's people, and in the Revelation of St. John the martyrs before God in heaven are shown to be keenly aware of what's happening here and their concern for us.

The reasons why Lutherans don't invoke the saints in prayer comes down largely to our concern that it can easily become twisted into a belief that the saints themselves have power. Thus the Augsburg Confession states that the best way we can honor the holy memory of the saints is by holding onto the same faith as they themselves had, and to honor their witness to Jesus.

"Of the Worship of Saints they teach that the memory of saints may be set before us, that we may follow their faith and good works, according to our calling," - Augsburg Confession, Article XXI.1

"Our Confession approves honors to the saints. For here a threefold honor is to be approved. The first is thanksgiving. For we ought to give thanks to God because He has shown examples of mercy; because He has shown that He wishes to save men; because He has given teachers or other gifts to the Church. And these gifts, as they are the greatest, should be amplified, and the saints themselves should be praised, who have faithfully used these gifts, just as Christ praises faithful business-men, Matt. 25:21, 23. The second service is the strengthening of our faith; when we see the denial forgiven Peter, we also are encouraged to believe the more that grace truly superabounds over sin, Rom. 5:20. The third honor is the imitation, first, of faith, then of the other virtues, which every one should imitate according to his calling." - Defense of the Augsburg Confession, Article XXI.4-6

So though we do not invoke the saints, it would be false to say that we do not honor them and their sacred memory.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The reasons why Lutherans don't invoke the saints in prayer comes down largely to our concern that it can easily become twisted into a belief that the saints themselves have power.

One ought not live the Christian life in fear of how others may misconstrue godly devotion.

 

[Philip_B]

doesn't matter. If you think they are living, you still cannot ascribe to them the characteristics of God, who alone knows and hears. Man will never have those capacities. They cannot see you either. Only God is omniscient and omnipresent.

We are the community of faith. We believe in the resurrection. The point of that is that the power of death has been vanquished. Therefore with Angels and Archangels and all the company of heaven, we let our prayers be known unto God. Hence my earlier post, that we pray with the saints.

I think I would say, 'I pray with the saints' and by that, I would include the saints both living and departed.

 

[ViaCrucis]

One ought not live the Christian life in fear of how others may misconstrue godly devotion.

It's not about a fear of what others might think. But how we ourselves might be led down the path of wrong thinking. I'm not saying this about you, or any other Catholic or Orthodox Christian. But in the 16th century? There were serious problems. In the 21st century there are different, but no less serious problems.

The goal in every generation should be to lift high this cross. It has to always come back to Jesus. That's why the Reformers emphasized Ad Fontes, "To the Source". To the Scriptures, to the Cross, to Jesus Christ. Always Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It's not about a fear of what others might think. But how we ourselves might be led down the path of wrong thinking.

That is an interesting thing to fear. Is it possible that in the 16th century your own tradition took the path of wrong thinking? Or is that not possible?