Those Who Transgress the Torah, Dishonor YHWH.

[HARK!]

let's not pretent you don't know what I'm talking about.
two laws:

1. Circumcision
2. Sabbath

both are signs of everlasting covenants, both are for generations upon generations, both are a part of Mosaic law, and both were established before Mosaic law.

which do we follow according to the letter of law?
which do we not?

could this be interpreted as a contradiction by some? how would you defend it as a noncontradictory statement?

I'll give you a hint for my answer, they are both the same. So whatever logic I apply to one, is applied to the other.

I fulfill YHWH's Torah.

That is a personal choice.

YHWH gives us free will.

 

[John Caldwell]

Reading Torah there are commandments within the Law of Moses that I understand (like not murdering, or stealing).

And obviously if we are under the Law of Moses then any violation is a moral sin (it is violating the Law, God's commandment).

But sometimes it seems that people who would place us under the Mosaic Law only do so with commandments they accept or that fits with their tradition.

What about the whole Law (as to violate one command within the Law of Moses is to violate the whole Law)?

I get the symbolism, that these are God's commandments under the Law of Moses, but other than obedience and symbolism I do not understand why or how some commandments apply today. Here are a few:

Deuteronomy 22:8–12 When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, so that you will not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it.
9 “You shall not sow your vineyard with two kinds of seed, or all the produce of the seed which you have sown and the increase of the vineyard will become defiled.
10 “You shall not plow with an ox and a donkey together.
11 “You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
12 “You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself

 

[DamianWarS]

If the law that is written on our hearts is calling us out of the law; then it is not written on our hearts; and is no law at all.

YHWH has been explicitly telling us to write his Torah on our hearts since he gave his Torah to Moses.

"upon our hearts" is innately an abstract concept, this is in contrast with written in stone which is a very physical and concrete. I'm sure you get the point, so it would be better to respond to it than pretend it doesn't exist.

2 Cor 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

in the text above it contrasts the law written upon our hearts by the spirit of the living God with those written by ink, or that which is written on stone, which is fairly on the nose contrast. law written on our hearts is a charge to walk by the Spirit, it is living, fluid and dynamic and calls us out of Moasic law which is static and written in stone. This is not to contradict the law but rather to give it meaning.

 

[HARK!]

I do not understand why or how some commandments apply today.

I don't rely on my own understanding. I obey understanding that Abba knows best.

When you build a new house, you shall make a parapet for your roof, so that you will not bring bloodguilt on your house if anyone falls from it.

I do understand this one. Even the secular UBC dictates that one must have a rail on their porch, if is above a certain height. There is also a requirement for handrails on staircases.

The reasons are obvious to me.

12 “You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself

These are to remind us of who we belong to, and to be obedient to him.

 

[DamianWarS]

I fulfill YHWH's Torah.

That is a personal choice.

YHWH gives us free will.

deflecting doesn't give me confidence in your position. I'm asking pretty straight forward questions, a refusal to answer them will either force me to think you are unable to answer them or are unable to answer them without a contradiction. If you're trying to show me your position so that I may better understand and ultimately accept it, indeed a noble charge of the gospel, then answers like this will only push me away. I'm asking for depth, and I'm getting deflecting answers that is more of a posture of "go away" or "I don't care". I would rather you say "I don't know" then pretent the question isn't there.

 

[Servus]

But sometimes it seems that people who would place us under the Mosaic Law only do so with commandments they accept or that fits with their tradition.

In my experience most of them can not recite most of the 613 mitzvot.

 

[Servus]

John Caldwell said: ↑12 “You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself

These are to remind us of who we belong to, and to be obedient to him.

Do make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself?

 

[HARK!]

in the text above it contrasts the law written upon our hearts by the spirit of the living God with those written by ink, or that which is written on stone, which is fairly on the nose contrast. law written on our hearts is a charge to walk by the Spirit, it is living, fluid and dynamic and calls us out of Moasic law which is static and written in stone.

Here is what the Torah says:

(CLV) Dt 6:6
These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

(CLV) Dt 8:2
And you will remember all the way which Yahweh your Elohim caused you to go these forty years in the wilderness, that He might make you humble, to probe you so as to know what is in your heart, whether or not you shall observe His instructions.

(CLV) Dt 26:16
This day Yahweh your Elohim is instructing you to keep these statutes and ordinances, and you will observe and do them with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:2
and that you will return again to Yahweh your Elohim and hearken to His voice according to all that I am instructing you today, you and your sons, with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:10
when you hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe His instructions and His statutes, the ones written in this scroll of the law, once you return to Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul.

(CLV) Dt 30:14
For the word is exceedingly near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, to do it.

 

[HARK!]

Do make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself?

Of course! Like I said, I fulfill the Torah. I belong to YHWH.

 

[Servus]

I said it's about the Torah.

You seem rather evasive. I feel like I'm getting to the point of badgering you just to get a comprehensive answer. So I think I will leave it be. Blessings.

 

[John Caldwell]

These are to remind us of who we belong to, and to be obedient to him.

I'm not so sure.

Deuteronomy 22:20–24 But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

22 “If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her,
24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

 

[John Caldwell]

Of course! Like I said, I fulfill the Torah. I belong to YHWH.

So you advocate killing a virgin who was taken by another man if she did not cry out?

You would ban children born out if wedlock from the assembly of God's people?

 

[HARK!]

I'm not so sure.

Deuteronomy 22:20–24 But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin,
21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

22 “If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

23 “If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her,
24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

What does any of this have to do with tzitzit?

 

[HARK!]

So you advocate killing a virgin who was taken by another man if she did not cry out?

I advocate keeping the Torah. When Yahshua rules the earth; this will be the law of the land.

Would you oppose Yahshua's just rule?

 

[John Caldwell]

What does any of this have to do with tzitzit?

Those are moral commandments under the Law of Moses as stated in Torah.

Why obey some of God's moral commands under the Law and not others?

If you disobey even one command then you break the Mosaic Law as a whole.

 

[Servus]

So you advocate killing a virgin who was taken by another man if she did not cry out?

You would ban children born out if wedlock from the assembly of God's people?

I advocate keeping the Torah. When Yahshua rules the earth; this will be the law of the land.

Would you oppose Yahshua's just rule?

What about in present time?

 

[John Caldwell]

I advocate keeping the Torah. When Yahshua rules the earth; this will be the law of the land.

Would you oppose Yahshua's just rule?

The Law of Moses as stated in Torah became applicable 400 Yeats after Abraham. That was among time ago.

Because I have never been under the Law of Moses. Jesus rightfully forgave the woman at the well (a violation of Torah). Jesus forbade divorce (Torah allows divorce).

How can you say we should obey the Law of Moses, but not yet??

 

[HARK!]

Those are moral commandments under the Law of Moses as stated in Torah.

Why obey some of God's moral commands under the Law and not others?

If you disobey even one command then you break the Mosaic Law as a whole.

YHWH calls us to obey all of his instructions. His Prophets delivered the same message. So did his son. Now it's my turn.

(CLV) Mt 28:19
Going, then, disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

(CLV) Mt 28:20
teaching them to be keeping all, whatever I direct you. And lo! I am with you all the days till the conclusion of the eon! Amen!"

 

[HARK!]

The Law of Moses as stated in Torah became applicable 400 Yeats after Abraham. That was among time ago.

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

Because I have never been under the Law of Moses.

Those who transgress the Torah are under the curses of thew Torah. They are under the law.

Jesus rightfully forgave the woman at the well (a violation of Torah). Jesus forbade divorce (Torah allows divorce).

Yahshua magnified the Torah. He also rebuked the traditions of men.

Can you prove out your postulates with scripture.

Here are Yahshua's own words, not my assumptions:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

How can you say we should obey the Law of Moses, but not yet??

I didn't say that.

 

[HARK!]

What about in present time?

I'm not in the land, with righteous rule.

(CLV) Dt 16:18
You shall appoint judges and clerks for yourselves in all your gates which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you for your tribes; and they will judge the people with just judgment.

(CLV) Dt 16:19
You shall not turn aside the judgment; you shall neither be biased nor take a bribe, for the bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the words of the righteous.

(CLV) Dt 16:20
Justice and justice only shall you pursue, so that you may live and tenant the land that Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you.

If you are asking me if I would vote to make the Torah the law of the land; the answer is yes.

Would you?