America is a Civil Religion of Deism, not a Christian nation

[lifepsyop]

Not exactly sure what you're saying, but the Enlightenment was focused on reason over dogma, which religious institutions sometimes forced on people. However, Judeo/Christian beliefs of themselves remained strong. The concept of individual freedom came from the Bible, especially after the translations of the Bible were made into the vernacular of German and English, first, then others.

The fundamental view of the Enlightenment was that truth could only be attained through man's natural reasoning. Any 'revealed' truth in scripture, (e.g. that Jesus is the resurrected Christ) was axiomatically rejected by Enlightenment thinkers. The philosophy itself explicitly rejected the Bible as a source of truth about God's identity.

The only 'god' they regarded was the god that one perceived by the senses through nature, which they identified as 'nature's God'. That is the god of Deism.

John Adams was a Christian, as well as others who signed the Declaration of Independence.
Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were deists, but still followed the principles founded in
the Biblical believing Christians of Europe.

There is nothing I can think of about the American revolution and founding that is according to Biblical principles... is it because they used the word 'God' a lot that you think this?

The laws of the Ten Commandments, like thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill, were very much part of government in the West.

Thou shall not kill... unless you don't like how much your government is taxing you right?

I seem to remember something written about this in Romans 13...

 

[lifepsyop]

The founders of the American nation came over on the Mayflower, and they were certainly not deists.

those were colonists, not revolutionaries.

Ancient Greek and Roman societies that ultimately became Christian.

And today us 'Enlightened' modern thinkers are fond of referring to that time of Christianity as 'the Dark Age'...

Of course, the Dark Age did not end until Enlightenment thinkers illuminated us and were able to guide civilization back to its pagan Greco-Roman roots by the light of science and reason.

That is the story anyways.

 

[lifepsyop]

What do people mean by America is a deist nation? What was the principles of deism that the country was founded on, and where did those principles come from? The answer of course is
that the principles were brought to America from the Bible believing Christians.

(143) Do You Agree With America's Founding Fathers About Jesus Christ? - YouTube

In this brief video teaching excerpt, Jerry Robinson probes the identity of "Nature's God" referred to by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence and asks "who exactly is the "God" that the founders spoke of in their writings?

Was it the God-man Jesus Christ, as revealed in the New Testament? As this brief clip reveals, several of America's founding fathers displayed a hostile and blasphemous attitude towards Jesus Christ, the apostle Paul, the New Testament in general, and much more!

Search long and hard, for example, into the published letters of America's first president, and national foundation stone, George Washington for any mention of Jesus Christ and you will find nothing.

While it is true that many of the founders often referred to Divine Providence, and even God, the identity of this supernatural power is rarely associated with Jesus Christ, who many of the founders viewed merely as a good man, likely a myth, but certainly not a god-man. When the founders did write or speak about the man Jesus Christ, it is rarely flattering and often vile.

George Washington - The name of Jesus Christ is not mentioned even once in the vast collection of Washington's published letters.

John Adams - Adams denied both the doctrine of the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus and had a distinct disdain for the message of the Cross. Writing to his once fellow patriot and later political adversary, Thomas Jefferson, Adams confides: “I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved - the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”

In a letter penned two days after Christmas in 1816 to his life-long friend F.A. van der Kemp, Adams confesses: “As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The fundamental view of the Enlightenment was that truth could only be attained through man's natural reasoning. Any 'revealed' truth in scripture, (e.g. that Jesus is the resurrected Christ) was axiomatically rejected by Enlightenment thinkers. The philosophy itself explicitly rejected the Bible as a source of truth about God's identity.

Some rejected the Bible as the source of truth when taken literally. However, faith and
reason helped to interpret the Bible and shape the culture.

The only 'god' they regarded was the god that one perceived by the senses through nature, which they identified as 'nature's God'. That is the god of Deism.

Some, but not all. Either way, it was through the Bible that European culture emerged and
made it's way to the Americas. The Declaration of Independence first used God instead of
Creator, but I believe Ben Franklin urged Jefferson to scale it back by using the word, Creator,
as it would include all religious beliefs. Either way, the principle of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, was Judeo/Christian beliefs.

There is nothing I can think of about the American revolution and founding that is according to Biblical principles... is it because they used the word 'God' a lot that you think this?

Self-defense from a tyrannical monarchy is throughout the Old Testament.
English rule over the colonies was tyranical. British soldiers could go into your
house and take it over without your say. There was more to the American Revolution
than just taxation without reporesentation.

Christianity in the first century, accepted the Roman government that was in
place as being God's will. Eventually that changed as the Roman Empire collapsed.
The invading barbarians required a change in the idea of defending the nation, as
innocent people would be murdered, raped and enslaved by the invaders'.
The Just War Doctrine was developed by Christians.

Thou shall not kill... unless you don't like how much your government is taxing you right?

It wasn't just about taxation. You have to learn what life was like under British Rule, which
drove the founding fathers to sign the Declaration of Independence. Keep in mind, that the
majority of signers, were wealthy aristocrats who risked everything just signing the document.
They didn't have to and could've just lived out their comfortable lives. However, they believed
in something no other country had ever tried, and it was based on Judeo/Christian beliefs.

I seem to remember something written about this in Romans 13...

Roman 13 was about the existing Roman Empire that existed in the days of the early Church.
St Paul knew that there was no way that the Church could ever defeat the Roman empire through
force, so, he wrote how to get along and accept that the authority in place was God's will.

 

[lifepsyop]

Some rejected the Bible as the source of truth when taken literally.

To be clear, Enlightenment philosophers rejected Jesus claims of divinity, and his resurrection. They rejected any kind of special revelations based on scripture.

However, faith and
reason helped to interpret the Bible and shape the culture.

the Bible was reinterpreted to be only metaphorical in nature, and Jesus a mere man of wisdom with no inherent deity. That is the Enlightenment's rendering of the Bible.

Some, but not all. Either way, it was through the Bible that European culture emerged and
made it's way to the Americas. The Declaration of Independence first used God instead of
Creator, but I believe Ben Franklin urged Jefferson to scale it back by using the word, Creator,
as it would include all religious beliefs.

a god 'of all religious beliefs' is certainly not the God of Israel.

Either way, the principle of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, was Judeo/Christian beliefs.

The Declaration's principle was that the will of man should reign supreme. That's why today America slaughters unborn children on an industrial scale. But at least we aren't taxed by a king, right?

Self-defense from a tyrannical monarchy is throughout the Old Testament.

The conquests of ancient Israel in scripture are based on the revealed Word and command of God. God is specifically commanding them to conquer their enemies and inherit a land promised to them, all based on His word revealed to the people through their anointed priests and prophets.

How does this compare to a anti-monarchical revolution that is proclaimed to be by the will of men to be free of their rulers and rule themselves... a revolution blessed by a 'god of all religions' and not the God of Israel?

English rule over the colonies was tyranical. British soldiers could go into your
house and take it over without your say. There was more to the American Revolution
than just taxation without reporesentation.

Government has always been able to do that, and has always behaved tyrannically in one form or another. A child in the womb likely had far more liberty and safety under a tyrant king than he or she does under the rule of modern republics and democracies.

Christianity in the first century, accepted the Roman government that was in
place as being God's will. Eventually that changed as the Roman Empire collapsed.
The invading barbarians required a change in the idea of defending the nation, as
innocent people would be murdered, raped and enslaved by the invaders'.
The Just War Doctrine was developed by Christians.

What do you mean? Innocent people are also murdered, raped, and enslaved because of those wars in huge masses. Look at the bloodbaths of the "enlightened societies" of the 19th and 20th centuries that directly followed the age of anti-monarchical revolutions.

It wasn't just about taxation. You have to learn what life was like under British Rule, which
drove the founding fathers to sign the Declaration of Independence.

Looking at our culture today, how many Christians do you think would have run back into the arms of monarchy if they could have foreseen where American "independence" would lead them 250 years later?

In the year 2022 we're up to knocks on the door from the FBI if you complain too much about your children being taught pornography in school. I wonder where we'll be with 20 more years of this Independence?

Keep in mind, that the
majority of signers, were wealthy aristocrats who risked everything just signing the document.
They didn't have to and could've just lived out their comfortable lives. However, they believed
in something no other country had ever tried, and it was based on Judeo/Christian beliefs.

The revolutionaries came from a Judeo/Christian culture so there is undoubtedly some influence, but their ideological movement also explicitly rejected the Christian Bible as a source of divine authority. It was a literal rejection of Judeo/Christian beliefs.

There is nothing Christian about slaughtering rulers who won't grant you independence. That is pure Enlightenment philosophy that makes man's natural reason and his earthly Liberty a god. The USA has a famous 150 ft. tall idol celebrating it.

Roman 13 was about the existing Roman Empire that existed in the days of the early Church.
St Paul knew that there was no way that the Church could ever defeat the Roman empire through
force, so, he wrote how to get along and accept that the authority in place was God's will.

Really, and when Jesus told Pilate that his followers wouldn't fight here because their kingdom was in heaven... ? And when Paul wrote to obey rulers and that our struggle was not against flesh and blood... was that only until the numbers were more in favor for violent revolution?

Where in the Gospels or Epistles is there a shred of support for violent revolution?

 

[iarwain]

I don't know about Deists, but a large portion of the country is anti-Christian. I have posted on a few political forums arguing against abortion, and I got a number of responses including the sentiment that "You can't force your Christian religion on me". Even though I never mentioned Christianity or religion at all. Clearly a large number of people proactively hate Christians.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Clearly a large number of people proactively hate Christians.

That is not the same as hating Christ.

 

[iarwain]

That is not the same as hating Christ.

I get your point, but if they loved Christ you would think they might be a little more empathetic to His followers. Christ did preach love and forgiveness, after all.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I get your point, but if they loved Christ you would think they might be a little more empathetic to His followers. Christ did preach love and forgiveness, after all.

Let's start with empathy from those who claim to be His followers.

 

[iarwain]

Let's start with empathy from those who claim to be His followers.

Sure, but that doesn't necessitate embracing every pagan idea that comes into fashion.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Sure, but that doesn't necessitate embracing every pagan idea that comes into fashion.

Such as?

 

[iarwain]

Such as?

Abortion, LGBTQ agenda, removing God from the culture, attacks on the family, etc.

 

[xser88]

In the bible kidnapping is to be punished by death. The same punishment for those who would purchase a kidnapped person. This means death for many of our forefathers who owned slaves. Add that to our forefathers including Abraham Lincoln committing genocide against Natives and you see why we couldn't be a nation founded on Christian principles. Columbia is the goddess we chose to represent us, she's the one in pictures wearing an American flag as a hat flying in the air banning the Natives while ushering in white settlers in wagon trains to steal the land. Nothing close to being founded on Christian values. We were the first Nation not founded on a religion. A secular nation with all different groups free to worship as they wish. They made clear they wanted the church and government separated. In all other nations it was church or church and State. They also didn't want government funds going to the church. They thought the responsibility of the poor and needy was the government's, not the church.

 

[Ray Glenn]

The first colonies were all persecuted Christians escaping to a new world. Simply because the Founders that wrote the Constitution borrowed a lot in person from France, does not mean the creation of the nation was Deist. The best example of this is in the Declaration of Independence. God is mentioned constantly. The use of freedom of religion promises a value in which all religions are to be practiced freely. that doesn't equate to all Founders being Deist.

I entered this debate about George Washington and the claim recently that he was a Deist. That is absolutely false. The claim is from a eastern seaboard Professor that has one source for his claim. The claim? George Washington never took communion. Hence the claim was made well after his death that George Washington was a Deist. George Washington's Pastor made that claim because Washington didn't take communion...nothing more. The life practice of George Washington proves otherwise. I think his daughter handed over his Bible when his estate was turned into a Presidential library. Every page of his Bible has personal notes. George woke every day by five am. He spent several hours alone reading his Bible. he had his favorite morning breakfast delivered to his study where he stayed alone. If I recall corn cakes and coffee.

When George Washington became Commander of the Continental Army, he formed a Pastor Corps. Every Sunday, every soldier was required to be his best uniform and attend church services. Every soldier on every encampment at every battle field was under orders to attend services. Sound like a Deist? Not hardly. There was to be no profanity in the ranks neither used by the enlisted man or the non commissioned officers. Yet he has been declared a Deist for simply declining to take communion. While in command, he rose every day before 5 am. Prayed alone and ate breakfast alone while he diligently read his bible.

The claim is written nowhere to be found, other than a simple statement from a pastor who had no knowledge of Washington's true intent or belief. His daughter claims otherwise. I'll go along with the relative who was there until the end. Not the rambling of an uninformed modern History Professor.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

those were colonists, not revolutionaries.

That's my point. America was created by European settlement, not political revolution.

 

[lifepsyop]

The first colonies were all persecuted Christians escaping to a new world. Simply because the Founders that wrote the Constitution borrowed a lot in person from France, does not mean the creation of the nation was Deist. The best example of this is in the Declaration of Independence. God is mentioned constantly. The use of freedom of religion promises a value in which all religions are to be practiced freely. that doesn't equate to all Founders being Deist.

I entered this debate about George Washington and the claim recently that he was a Deist. That is absolutely false. The claim is from a eastern seaboard Professor that has one source for his claim. The claim? George Washington never took communion. Hence the claim was made well after his death that George Washington was a Deist. George Washington's Pastor made that claim because Washington didn't take communion...nothing more. The life practice of George Washington proves otherwise. I think his daughter handed over his Bible when his estate was turned into a Presidential library. Every page of his Bible has personal notes. George woke every day by five am. He spent several hours alone reading his Bible. he had his favorite morning breakfast delivered to his study where he stayed alone. If I recall corn cakes and coffee.

When George Washington became Commander of the Continental Army, he formed a Pastor Corps. Every Sunday, every soldier was required to be his best uniform and attend church services. Every soldier on every encampment at every battle field was under orders to attend services. Sound like a Deist? Not hardly. There was to be no profanity in the ranks neither used by the enlisted man or the non commissioned officers. Yet he has been declared a Deist for simply declining to take communion. While in command, he rose every day before 5 am. Prayed alone and ate breakfast alone while he diligently read his bible.

The claim is written nowhere to be found, other than a simple statement from a pastor who had no knowledge of Washington's true intent or belief. His daughter claims otherwise. I'll go along with the relative who was there until the end. Not the rambling of an uninformed modern History Professor.

Freemasons are Deists. They may be found among the ranks of many other religions, but their entire schtick revolves around worshipping the god of nature, perceived by enlightened reasoning, and not revealed by scripture or the revealed deity of Jesus Christ.

George Washington, in masonic ritual, laying the cornerstone of the US Capitol.

United States Capitol cornerstone laying - Wikipedia

Thomas Jefferson was also constantly reading the Bible. Would you call him a Christian?

Many deists have had great respect for the Bible as a book of wisdom and morality, yet they also believed its claims of divine revelation were only symbolism and metaphor, not actual revelation from God, which would render their mission of 'Enlightenment' meaningless. The Deistic-Masonic "Gospel" was their belief that they were saving the world through science and reason, with their brotherhood functioning as the priests and prophets.

The Cross, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ brings all of their utopian schemes to nothing, and all of their collective wisdom as foolishness, so they weren't big fans of the real Gospel.

 

[Ray Glenn]

I'll state it again. There is only one known source to declare Washington to be a Deist. That source is his own Pastor after his death. The reason"He never took communion" I could care less what your modern historical references tell you. The life and practices of George Washington never reflected Deism. Washington prayed every day of his life.

Thomas Jefferson used his Bible pursuing truth just as he had done in studying the Koran. Thomas Jefferson declared constantly that man's rights were given to him by God. The comic book version of Deism is curious. God created the world .....they don't doubt that, but then they believe that God has no affect on how the world runs or operates. other words God has no influence on his creation.

The claims made of non Christian Historians with an objective to affect Christianity is hilarious in itself.. Considering the fact that the most read book of the period was the Bible and the center of every city and town was the church.

 

[lifepsyop]

I'll state it again. There is only one known source to declare Washington to be a Deist. That source is his own Pastor after his death. The reason"He never took communion" I could care less what your modern historical references tell you. The life and practices of George Washington never reflected Deism. Washington prayed every day of his life.

I'm sure he did pray, as many deists and freemasons prayed to be guided by the light of reason of 'nature's God' and its eye of providence. Are you under the assumption that Freemasonry is any less heretical to Christianity than the broader class of Deism?

Thomas Jefferson used his Bible pursuing truth just as he had done in studying the Koran. Thomas Jefferson declared constantly that man's rights were given to him by God.

Yet Jefferson denied the God of Israel and the deity of Jesus Christ, so what god was he referring to? Most likely the same "god" that George Washington honored in his masonic rituals.

The comic book version of Deism is curious. God created the world .....they don't doubt that, but then they believe that God has no affect on how the world runs or operates. other words God has no influence on his creation.

Some Deists believe that the creator has not intervened since the creation, and some believe the god of nature has intervened by "enlightening" certain people at certain times, granting them favor or providence in peoples' works on the earth. But all Deists deny that God has intervened and revealed Himself as described by scripture and the Gospels of Jesus Christ.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

At this point in time, it's all meaningless as to what the founding fathers believed.

We are Christians today and the nation and society itself, is very anti-Christian.

So, the only thing we can do is be true to Christ and practice our faith as best we can. This will change as persecution increases.

 

[Laconia79]

I've always heard that America was a Christian nation, or at least highly sympathetic to Christianity, but any amount of study soon shows that idea to be false. America is Deist through and through, and its philosophical founding has always been deeply hostile to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Deism can be difficult to define specifically but essentially it is a belief in an unknown god that is behind all of nature. This 'nature's God' is made reference to in the founding Declaration that "laws of nature and of nature's God" entitle the United States to independence." It is the watchmaker god that birthed the universe long ago and then stepped away, and men only discover this god through a process of 'enlightenment'.

Deism rejects divine revelation, i.e. the God of the Bible. Deists believe that God can only be found through the power of human reason and the careful examination of the natural world. While deists may respect and cherish holy books as a source of morality and wisdom, they fully reject the idea that we actually learn of the identity of the true God through these scriptures. (Contrast this with the fully revealed deity of Christ, commander of the winds and sea)

The Founders of the American nation were committed Deists. Whenever they talked about God, they meant the god of nature, the god of Deism. They were obsessed with the philosophies of the 'Enlightenment' and its basis in pagan Greek and Roman traditions.

(The official cosmology taught in American schools, even 'Christian' universities and Theological academies, is based on a form of neo-Epicurean Deism, the watchmaker god, the god of 'intelligent design', which initiated the physical universe with the physical conditions set to facilitate the eventual evolution of all life. These are ancient Greek beliefs, not the Biblical worldview.)

The American Revolution itself was a violent rebellion against the King of England. The organizers of the revolution claimed that they were "obeying" God by rebelling against "tyrants", which was totally opposed to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles, that we are to obey our rulers and honor the king. Once again, the American revolutionaries were paying homage to the god of Deism, not the God of Israel.

America was founded on the ideals of human rights and human freedom. A belief that humans are inherently good and deserving of happiness. A belief that the best form of government was one based on the collective will of people. Instead of people living humbly and obeying their rulers, they were to embrace a spirit of Liberty, which encouraged them to pursue earthly happiness and worldly prosperity. (Contrast this humanist ideology with the Bible which teaches us that man is fallen and under God's judgment and wrath)

Our entire political system is designed around the assumption that people arrive at the truth of what is right and wrong, good and evil, only through human institutions. A humanistic "Supreme Court" dictates morality.

It is this idol of Liberty or Libertas, actual metal statues, that dot the skyline of our cities. It is the embodiment of the spirit of humanism. Humanity exalting itself by the light of its own reasoning. Humanity freed from old superstitions and religions by its own enlightenment.

America today, and the modern world generally speaking, practices a kind of Civil Religion, sometimes called 'Moral Therapeutic Deism'... which has an appearance of Godliness but is completely detached from the Gospel of Jesus.

Moralistic therapeutic deism - Wikipedia

...The authors' study found that many young people believe in several moral statutes not exclusive to any of the major world religions. It is not a new religion or theology as such, but identified as a set of commonly held spiritual beliefs. It is this combination of beliefs that they label moralistic therapeutic deism:

A God exists who created and ordered the world and watches over human life on earth.

God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and by most world religions.

The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.

God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when God is needed to resolve a problem.

Good people go to heaven when they die.


Basically, America is a pagan nation. All of its social, traditional, religious, academic, and philosophical structures are repackaged versions of what was happening in ancient Greek and Roman societies. This is reflected in all of the nation's monuments, artwork, and temple-like architecture as well. ("The Apotheosis of George Washington" is an interesting one)

Reading the apostles' letters... Romans, Corinthians, Colossians, Ephesians, Peter, Jude... they are constantly warning about false teaching, human traditions, vain philosophies of the world, how Christians are called to spiritually separate themselves from it, completely. Have no love of the world, seek only the Kingdom of God. The apostles specifically warn that false teachers will come in the last days, leading the church away from the truth with these traditions of the world.

I look around at churches in America today and I see people bowing to both the cross of Christ and also bowing to the goddess Liberty. There is this deep, deep love of America, it's founding and philosophical traditions, that is spiritual to its core, and that spirit of Deism that is bound to America since its founding has permeated the churches and church life.

I see responses about how all of this doesn't really matter... but apparently it mattered a huge deal to the Apostles. Almost all of what they wrote about was how we need to stay free of all of this and cling only to the Cross. This present earth is only our wilderness, and we are waiting to inherit the true kingdom when Jesus returns.

Okay I am this this...FREEDOME OF RELIGION NOT FREEDOM ONLY FOR CHRISTIANS!!! The church and the government were supposed to be separate that is what the founding fathers tried to do. Next we have planet of 7 billion people, 2 billion claim to be Christian and maybe 20% actually follow Christi teachings. That being said there 5 billon people on this planet with beliefs and cultures and for some reason Christians think they have the right to force there religious and moral beliefs on others. Tell me how is that working for Christianity.