Why people reject the reality of Hell

[FineLinen]

That God saves any is unbelievable. God's perfect righteousness demands that those who reject His plan for redemption be cast into everlasting condemnation.
Second death is after final judgment.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Everlasting condemnation /aionios kolasis is a figment of your old man nature.

The Lake of Fire has two defining aspects, theion & theioo, both flowing from the God of glory to change & transform.

 

[Der Alte]

...

Everlasting condemnation /aionios kolasis is a figment of your old man nature.
The Lake of Fire has two defining aspects, theion & theioo, both flowing from the God of glory to change & transform.

No matter how many times you post this it is heterodox nonsense!
Neither word "theion" nor "theioo" occur in the book of revelation!
Your statement "aionios kolasis is a figment of your old man nature." is totally false. The words "aionios kolasis" most certainly occur in Matt 25:46.

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Also Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is understood that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, backed up by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete words which occur in the KJV and to translate them correctly.

 

[FineLinen]

Everlasting condemnation /aionios kolasis is a figment of your old man nature.

The Lake of Fire has two defining aspects, theion & theioo, both flowing from the God of glory to change & transform.

The Greek word theion translated brimstone is exactly the same word theion which means divine.

Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense.

In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone.

The verb derived from theion is theioo which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition).

To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a lake of fire and brimstone would mean a lake of divine purification. The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, the fundamental meaning of the word is completely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.

Fire means heat and light. Brimstone means divine.

The Lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually Divine heat (judgment), and light (illumination), producing a change!

 

[Saint Steven]

No death in the new heaven, new earth, and new Jerusalem.

What about down in the dungeon?

 

[Der Alte]

...

The Greek word theion translated brimstone is exactly the same word theion which means divine.
Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense.
In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone.
The verb derived from theion is theioo which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition).
To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a lake of fire and brimstone would mean a lake of divine purification. The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, the fundamental meaning of the word is completely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.
Fire means heat and light. Brimstone means divine.
The Lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually Divine heat (judgment), and light (illumination), producing a change!

This is full of so much falsehood it is difficult to address
"theion translated brimstone which means divine." is NOT exactly the same word as "theion", although it is spelled the same, Theion is listed twice in BDAG. The first entry means "sulfur." The second entry does mean "divine."
The Greek word "Theioo" may have been listed in "the 1897 Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition" but it is not listed in the modern BDAG Greek lexicon. And "theioo" does not occur in the O.T. The pagan concepts, properties etc of "theion" and "theioo" have absolutely no relevance to any words in the NT.

 

[Receivedgrace]

The Greek word theion translated brimstone is exactly the same word theion which means divine.

Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense.

In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone.

The verb derived from theion is theioo which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition).

To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a lake of fire and brimstone would mean a lake of divine purification. The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, the fundamental meaning of the word is completely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it.

Fire means heat and light. Brimstone means divine.

The Lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually Divine heat (judgment), and light (illumination), producing a change!

Not correct. The bible does not give any hope to those who are in the Lake of Fire. It is a one-way trip.
Those in the lake of fire will know the complete absence of the presence of God.

 

[Receivedgrace]

What about down in the dungeon?

No mention of a dungeon in the bible when the new earth, heaven and Jerusalem enter into existence.

 

[Saint Steven]

No mention of a dungeon in the bible when the new earth, heaven and Jerusalem enter into existence.

Where is hell? (that's what I was referring to)

 

[FineLinen]

Not correct. The bible does not give any hope to those who are in the Lake of Fire. It is a one-way trip.
Those in the lake of fire will know the complete absence of the presence of God.

The Lord of glory is the beginning and the end of all things. There is no such thing as the absence of His Presence; He permeates His creation.

Theion & theioo = Divine purification.

 

[FineLinen]

. The bible does not give any hope to those who are in the Lake of Fire.

Our God's love never fails. He is the God of compassion, the Father of all fathers, hope for the hopeless!

The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases: ever!

 

[Receivedgrace]

Our God's love never fails. He is the God of compassion, the Father of all fathers, hope for the hopeless!

The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases: ever!

God also judges and has declared that sin brings death. Those who will not turn will not see life but will perish.
God's compassion is seen that He saves any when all deserve eternal destruction.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[DavidPT]

Since context obviously matters, consider the following.


Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


This passage is often used in support of ECT in regards to humans. The first thing to notice though, it is only involving--If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand.

Take Cain for instance. I'm certain when he is judged at the great white throne judgment, he will be cast into the LOF. Is it because he was doing what is recorded in verse 9 above? Doesn't verses 10-11 tell us, that specifically involves those doing what is recorded in verse 9?

Maybe the solution is, none of this is even involving the lake of fire, it is involving the 7 vials of wrath being poured out on them. Notice what the 7th vial involves.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


Compare with the following in Ezekiel 38.

Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

This verse apparently records the great earthquake meant in Revelation 16:18.

Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

This verse apparently records the great hailstones meant in Revelation 16:21, and also apparently records the fire and brimstone meant in Revelation 14:10.

Regardless how much time these 7 vials of wrath involve, imagine them being poured out on you one after another and then you still being able to find rest day and night. No one could possibly be finding rest day and night if they are being plagued with the last 7 vials of wrath. The opposite would be true, they would be finding no rest day and night.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Not correct. The bible does not give any hope to those who are in the Lake of Fire. It is a one-way trip.
Those in the lake of fire will know the complete absence of the presence of God.

Not correct - the Fire of the Lake of Fire is the same Fire Moses saw in the Burning Bush. It is the same Fire that came out of the heavens and devoured this person or that person or Sodom & Gomorrah, etc, etc. A long and tedious word study on "fire," "burning" and related words informed me that all supernatural Fire mentioned in the Bible is in fact, Godfire, not "hellfire." That, btw, is why the LoF is not ID'd as "hell" in the Bible.

 

[DavidPT]

That, btw, is why the LoF is not ID'd as "hell" in the Bible.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Doesn't that ignore what is recorded in this verse? Obviously, no one when they die, descends bodily into hell. In order for God to be able to destroy the body in hell, regardless what one takes that to mean, that obviously means their body has to be present there. The way that is obviously accomplished is via the resurrection of the lost, meaning Revelation 20:11-15. In the meantime, Matthew 10:28 could not possibly be applicable yet. Therefore, hell and the LOF have to be meaning the same thing in this verse. Keeping in mind, one has to explain how a body can descend to hell upon death if they disagree this is involving the LOF.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Doesn't that ignore what is recorded in this verse? Obviously, no one when they die, descends bodily into hell. In order for God to be able to destroy the body in hell, regardless what one takes that to mean, that obviously means their body has to be present there. The way that is obviously accomplished is via the resurrection of the lost, meaning Revelation 20:11-15. In the meantime, Matthew 10:28 could not possibly be applicable yet. Therefore, hell and the LOF have to be meaning the same thing in this verse. Keeping in mind, one has to explain how a body can descend to hell upon death if they disagree this is involving the LOF.

All that is confusing - to go to "hell" you must be dead, but to suffer eternal conscious torment, you must be alive...but you're dead.

"God saves all" seems, to me, not confusing at all. It's straightforward, and enables our Lord to taunt Death and the Grave, asking where their victory is. If Death could point to just ONE non-empty grave, or to ONE poor schmuck in "hell," Jesus would have to hang His head and walk away - but that's not going to happen! No, far from it, for God will become All in all, not a few, some or even many.

 

[DavidPT]

All that is confusing - to go to "hell" you must be dead, but to suffer eternal conscious torment, you must be alive...but you're dead.

Actually, one is not still dead if Jesus bodily raised them from the dead, which means when they get cast into the LOF, they are cast in bodily, thus bodily alive at the time.

What a lot of the debate is about, what happens to them once they are cast into the LOF bodily? ECT or eventually eternal death? My view is the latter.

As to universalism, in order for that view to even be a possibility, there has to be a resurrection from the 2nd death, because unless they are resurrected among the living following the 2nd death, they are still experiencing the 2nd death in the meantime. There are no such Scriptures in all of the Bible that support there are two resurrection events involving the lost. There is only one resurrection event involving the lost, so that they can be judged sentenced and punished with the 2nd death, whatever the 2nd death might look like. I'm assuming it means annihilation since I don't see how death can mean to continue living forever. That is not death, that is eternal life.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Actually, one is not still dead if Jesus bodily raised them from the dead, which means when they get cast into the LOF, they are cast in bodily, thus bodily alive at the time.

What a lot of the debate is about, what happens to them once they are cast into the LOF bodily? ECT or eventually eternal death? My view is the latter.

As to universalism, in order for that view to even be a possibility, there has to be a resurrection from the 2nd death, because unless they are resurrected among the living following the 2nd death, they are still experiencing the 2nd death in the meantime. There are no such Scriptures in all of the Bible that support there are two resurrection events involving the lost. There is only one resurrection event involving the lost, so that they can be judged sentenced and punished with the 2nd death, whatever the 2nd death might look like. I'm assuming it means annihilation since I don't see how death can mean to continue living forever. That is not death, that is eternal life.

I found little support for annihilation in the Bible. Besides, back to God's taunt, since the annihilated still count as dead, Death can point at them, and God will be obliged to take the taunt back. The indisputable FACT that He does demonstrates that no one at that time is dead and/or in "hell."

 

[Der Alte]

All that is confusing - to go to "hell" you must be dead, but to suffer eternal conscious torment, you must be alive...but you're dead.
"God saves all" seems, to me, not confusing at all. It's straightforward, and enables our Lord to taunt Death and the Grave, asking where their victory is. If Death could point to just ONE non-empty grave, or to ONE poor schmuck in "hell," Jesus would have to hang His head and walk away - but that's not going to happen! No, far from it, for God will become All in all, not a few, some or even many.

Wonderful words! This passage certainly must mean all mankind will be saved, the unrighteous and righteous alike. Right?

1 Corinthians 15:52-58
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.​

Who is Paul addressing in this vs. "all mankind?" NO! Who is we? Read this vs. in context. The "we" is NOT all mankind but "my beloved brethren!" vs. 58.
It seems certain groups insist on reading vss. out-of-context trying to make them say what they do not say.

(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
(56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
(57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.​

Who is "us" in this vs? Is it all mankind? Again, no! It is still "my beloved brethren", vs. 58

(58) Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.​

It is abundantly clear that this passage is NOT an all mankind will be saved text. Paul is addressing "my beloved brethren" throughout the passage. "be stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord." All mankind are not involved "in the work of the Lord" And all mankind do NOT know that their menial, mundane work is "not in vain."

 

[BobRyan]

I found little support for annihilation in the Bible.

Did you read

Matt 10:28??
Ezek 28:18-19 ??
Rev 20:9?
John 3:16?
1 John 3:15?​

 

[Lazarus Short]

As usual, side-stepping and misdirection. There is really no getting around God's taunt to Death and the Grave. Either He can make the taunt...or He can't. Deal with it.