Saturday or Sunday Church?

[BNR32FAN]

So we can worship other gods, bow to images, vain God’s holy name, covet, steal, commit adultery etc. We appear to be reading different bibles.

Acts 15 is addressing a few items that were in contention. There is nothing that says the commandments of God ended so you are reading that into scripture, when scripture says otherwise.

Are you kidding me with this nonsense? It’s no wonder you can’t get your theology straight you can’t understand context. What was I talking about when I said that Acts 15 did delete the Old Testament? Let’s rewind and take a closer look.

It does and it happened in Acts 15. That is unless of course you still believe that circumcision of the foreskin is still a requirement for entering into God’s covenant. Or that we still need to offer sin offerings for forgiveness of our sins.

I mentioned Acts 15 because that’s where the first ecumenical council in Jerusalem abolished the necessity for circumcision as a requirement for entering into God’s covenant. I mentioned two things, circumcision, and sin offerings. Now what your doing is setting up yet another strawman argument by implying that I was including the commandments in Exodus 20 as also being abolished when I said absolutely nothing to that effect. Your intentionally trying to come up with the most ridiculous interpretation of what I said in an attempt to discredit me by intentionally misrepresenting what I actually said. That’s a form of deception. I’m going to refrain from saying anything further on this behavior.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I know thatat the apostles often attended a synagogue after the cross, I'm not aware of a post-cross commandment for them to keep the Sabbath. I am aware that the Sabbath commandment is repeated in books like Hebrews, but to me it's not clear if that means to keep it the same way as was done in the old Covenant.

In Acts 15, the apostles don't quote the scriptures of the laws that they say the gentiles are to keep. And they clearly believe they have the ability to say which laws the gentiles are to keep, they come up with four. And they list them.

Peace be with you, my sister, good to hear from you again.

Yes and every time the apostles are mentioned in a synagogue what were they doing? I believe that is a very relevant question to consider. They were preaching the gospel. Christianity is the continuation of Judaism. The Jewish prophecies referred to Christ and the New Covenant which is what they were preaching. It just makes sense that since these people attending the synagogues were familiar with the Old Testament prophecies and awaiting the Messiah that the apostles would go to them and preach to them that the Messiah had come and the New Covenant had begun.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Indeed, I don't see room for interpreting Acts 24:14 as referring to The Way as being a sect of a religion other than Judaism. Christ practiced Judaism, everything that he taught was in accordance with it, being a Christian is about following Christ, and Jews who were becoming followers of the Messiah did not see themselves as converting to a different religion.

I think his next statement could reveal why he still practiced Judaism.

“In view of this, I also do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience both before God and before men.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭24:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Do you suppose Paul still observed sin offerings? I’m not aware of any scriptures saying that he did although I’m not aware of any that say he didn’t either but I am more inclined to believe that Paul knowing that Christ’s atonement was the perfect sacrifice and that no further sacrifices were needed that he would not bother with them. I would also expect that for him to participate in them could send a misleading message to other Jewish Christians.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Are you kidding me with this nonsense? It’s no wonder you can’t get your theology straight you can’t understand context. What was I talking about when I said that Acts 15 did delete the Old Testament? Let’s rewind and take a closer look.


I mentioned Acts 15 because that’s where the first ecumenical council in Jerusalem abolished the necessity for circumcision as a requirement for entering into God’s covenant. I mentioned two things, circumcision, and sin offerings. Now what your doing is setting up yet another strawman argument by implying that I was including the commandments in Exodus 20 as also being abolished when I said absolutely nothing to that effect. Your intentionally trying to come up with the most ridiculous interpretation of what I said in an attempt to discredit me by intentionally misrepresenting what I actually said. That’s a form of deception. I’m going to refrain from saying anything further on this behavior.

I asked a question so thats not intentionally misrepresenting anything, this is a discussion. As I stated previously what does Acts 15 have to do with the Sabbath commandment- nothing, it is referring to circumcision. I am glad you recognize that the the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 has nothing to do with Acts 15, so not really sure of your argument over circumcision has to do with worship on Sunday or Sabbath.

I have no interest in trying to discredit you. You are making this very personal when its about finding Truth in scriptures. If you have a point you’re trying to make about circumcision and how it relates to the topic of this thread, please feel free to make your point.

God bless

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why do you consider it to be disrespectful to continue to obey what God has commanded and not disrespectful to stop obeying what God has commanded? The offerings always testified about Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Again, Paul continued to make offerings and planned to pay for the offerings of others, so I don't think that he considered it to be disrespectful to Christ.

Can you please quote this scripture where Paul offered sacrifices?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree we should obey what God has commanded, but the whole point of the sacrificial system in the Old Covenant was for the forgiveness of sins.

That’s not true, sacrifices were also used for ceremonial purposes like the Passover which had nothing to do with a sin offering and also thanksgiving and honoring God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That’s not true, sacrifices were also used for ceremonial purposes like the Passover which had nothing to do with a sin offering and also thanksgiving and honoring God.

Again, I am referring to a the blood animal sacrifices, I am pretty sure I have already stated that to you in this thread. I don’t believe we should kill any animal for the sacrifice of sins as the blood of Jesus is perfect for cleanings all unrighteousness when we repent and turn from our sin and turn to God in obedience to Him.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I asked a question so thats not intentionally misrepresenting anything, this is a discussion. As I stated previously what does Acts 15 have to do with the Sabbath commandment- nothing, it is referring to circumcision. I am glad you recognize that the the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 has nothing to do with Acts 15, so not really sure of your argument over circumcision has to do with worship on Sunday or Sabbath.

I have no interest in trying to discredit you. You are making this very personal when its about finding Truth in scriptures. If you have a point you’re trying to make about circumcision and how it relates to the topic of this thread, please feel free to make your point.

God bless

I never said anything about the 10 commandments, the commandments you asked if we can now break were written in Exodus 20.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I never said anything about the 10 commandments, the commandments you asked if we can now break were written in Exodus 20.

Exodus 20 is the Ten Commandments- Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

Previously I thought you agreed, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, I am referring to a the blood animal sacrifices, I am pretty sure I have already stated that to you in this thread. I don’t believe we should kill any animal for the sacrifice of sins as the blood of Jesus is perfect for cleanings all unrighteousness when we repent and turn from our sin and turn to God in obedience to Him.

I apologize I didn’t see that reference I only saw you mention the Jewish sacrificial system as being for sin offerings.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I apologize I didn’t see that reference I only saw you mention the Jewish sacrificial system as being for sin offerings.

It’s okay, there a lot going back and forth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Exodus 20 is the Ten Commandments- previously you agreed, but I guess now you don’t. Okay.

No I’m not saying that the term 10 commandments does not refer to the commandments in Exodus 20 it’s a common term used in reference to those commandments. I acknowledge that, my only disagreement is that we don’t know that those were the Ten Commandments that were written on the stone tablets. The term “Ten Commandments” doesn’t appear in the scriptures anywhere.

Edit: Ok yes the term is in the scriptures as the number of commandments on the stone tablets but there’s no reference specific to the commandments given in Exodus 20.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No I’m not saying that the term 10 commandments does not refer to the commandments in Exodus 20 it’s a common term used in reference to those commandments. I acknowledge that, my only disagreement is that we don’t know that those were the Ten Commandments that were written on the stone tablets. The term “Ten Commandments” doesn’t appear in the scriptures anywhere.

I think reading the scriptures in context show they are the Ten Commandments. God identifies in Exodus 20:6 they are His commandments, most scholars agree the Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20, but a lot has changed over the past couple decades. I mean the Ten Commandments not long ago were in schools, churches and courtrooms, now churches are teaching you no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments. To me, its really sad, but its is what the scriptures predicted.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I think reading the scriptures in context show they are the Ten Commandments. God identifies in Exodus 20:6 they are His commandments, most scholars agree the Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20, but a lot has changed over the past couple decades. I mean the Ten Commandments not long ago were in schools, churches and courtrooms, now churches are teaching you no longer have to keep the Ten Commandments. To me, its really sad, but its is what the scriptures predicted.

God doesn’t say they are the 10 commandments on the stones and He mentioned His commandments in Genesis 26:5, Exodus 15:26, and Exodus 16:28 before He gave those commandments in Exodus 20 furthermore there are countless commandments of God mentioned in the book of Numbers. So it’s not as if Exodus 20 is the only place in scripture where God mentioned His commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

God doesn’t say they are the 10 commandments on the stones and He mentioned His commandments in Genesis 26:5, Exodus 15:26, and Exodus 16:28 before He gave those commandments in Exodus 20 furthermore there are countless commandments of God mentioned in the book of Numbers. So it’s not as if Exodus 20 is the only place in scripture where God mentioned His commandments.

Yes, the commandments in Exodus 20 are referenced before Exodus 20. They were formally given to the Nation of Israel on Mt Sinai, but they already knew the commandments. For example, the Sabbath is mentioned Exodus 16:23 and they were keeping the Sabbath before it was written in stone by God.

My bible directly references the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 Exodus 20 NKJV - The Ten Commandments - And God spoke - Bible Gateway Another reference Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words:

Its a newer teaching that we can't identify the Ten Commandments.

 

[Soyeong]

Do we need to be circumcised then ???

Either there are correct or incorrect reasons for becoming circumcised and Paul only spoke against the incorrect reasons, or according to Galatians 5:2, Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised right after the Jerusalem Council (Acts 16:3) and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect reason, which should not be mistaken as ruling against requiring circumcision for the purposes for which God commanded it, as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God. In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul instructed them to continue to observe Passover, which requires Gentiles to become circumcised in order to eat of the lamb (Exodus 12:43-49), so are are correct reasons for which a Gentile can become circumcised.

 

[Soyeong]

Well since Christianity doesn't follow the law the way Judaism does, isn't that a grievous error?

Christianity follows the law the way Judaism does to a large extent, such as giving to charity and loving our neighbor as ourselves, but if that is a grievous error, then I'm not sure what you would call following God's law to no extent.

 

[Soyeong]

Which is which? Thanks in advance for the information.

Generally judgements refers to justice or righteousness, so that would be a good translation of mishpatim while statutes is translated from chukim.

 

[Soyeong]

No, they addressed all of those things
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

They looked at the situation and came up with four laws, instead of the entire law of Moses.

Does that mean it was okay for those early gentile Christians to do those things you say? No. But not because of something written in the law of Moses, but rather because the gentiles were to love because Christ loved them, and those things don't fit with loving.

David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he loved God's law and delighted in obeying it, so does it make sense to interpret people were in complete agreement with the Psalms to view it as a heavy burden that no one could bear?

I agree the apostles attended synagogues, often on the sabbath. That is not the same as keeping the Sabbath.

I don't see a good reason to think that the Apostles has every appearance of continuing to obey what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, but that they were super secretly actually rebelling against God.

 

[Soyeong]

The wandering in the wilderness was a set time, 40 years. Fairly short.

The Babylonian captivity was 70 years, clearly prophesied.

It's been 1,952 years since the destruction of the Temple and passing of the levitical priesthood. To me, that looks like something way different.

But again, if we take the loosest possible interpretation of any odd or difficult laws, then cool. I think I read something about the Levites giving the meaning of the law. And it looks like we agree that the law works as a whole, take a piece out of it and it doesn't work right anymore.

Then, it's not up to us to try to figure out the right interpretation of a law, how to keep it. What we would do is go ask a Levite. If there's no Levites around, then we have a piece missing from the law.

Even when the law was first given to Moses, there was a single person who was required to keep every single law, and not even Jesus kept the laws in regard to having a period or to giving birth. Some laws were only for the King, the High Priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, widows, those who are married, those who have servants, those who have animals, those who have crops, those who have tzaraat, those who are living in the land, and those who are strangers living among them, while others were given for everyone. So figuring out how the law applies to us today is a matter of carefully study, prayer, and the leading us the Spirit, though if we believe that God's law was given for our own good in order to bless us, if we love God, and if we have faith in him to rightly guide us, then we will have the attitude of looking for reasons for have the delight of getting to obey His law rather than the attitude of looking for excuses to avoid obeying it. We can only obey what is possible for us to obey and it would be unjust for God to hold us responsible for not obeying laws that we can't currently obey.