• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The beginning of sorrows; it starts with deception.

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
7,736
2,561
Perth
✟215,727.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?
 

Sheila Davis

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2020
838
292
Houston
✟73,338.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?

Questions _ Couldn't a minister, theologian, teacher, preacher, of the gospel be considered a prophet?
What is a prophet but one that delivers the Word of God?
Couldn't false prophets refer to many of the ministers throughout all the denominations of Christianity? I personally believe so.

It is said there are maybe 100 uncontacted tribes worldwide. Yet they have been contacted they just refuse, they do not want to be a part of the "called" civilized world. Have they heard the gospel - I believe they've had the opportunity and refused. By chance if there is any actual uncontacted tribes, I believe there are only a handful.
I see all the prophecies except for two or three being fulfilled simultaneously, as written in Matthew 24 when you see "ALL" these things occurring - including the prophecies written in other scriptures from the Old the New Testament.
Man has the technology for the mark of the beast _ technology for a global currency or non-currency _ technology for a world government. Scripture tells us that the entire world will see him coming - television / cell phones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: apollosdtr
Upvote 0

Sheila Davis

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2020
838
292
Houston
✟73,338.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Divorced
Questions _ Couldn't a minister, theologian, teacher, preacher, of the gospel be considered a prophet?
What is a prophet but one that delivers the Word of God?
Couldn't false prophets refer to many of the ministers throughout all the denominations of Christianity? I personally believe so.

It is said there are maybe 100 uncontacted tribes worldwide. Yet they have been contacted they just refuse, they do not want to be a part of the "called" civilized world. Have they heard the gospel - I believe they've had the opportunity and refused. By chance if there is any actual uncontacted tribes, I believe there are only a handful.
I see all the prophecies except for two or three being fulfilled simultaneously, as written in Matthew 24 when you see "ALL" these things occurring - including the prophecies written in other scriptures from the Old the New Testament.
Man has the technology for the mark of the beast _ technology for a global currency or non-currency _ technology for a world government. Scripture tells us that the entire world will see him coming - television / cell phones.
It has always been about deception - the devil works with deception and he is very, very, very, good at it. The sad thing is is how easily deceived our spirits are.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,611
12,058
Georgia
✟1,119,694.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?

Matt 24 predicts great deception at the end of time - so great that it would deceive if possible "the very elect".

Paul says the devil appears as a heavenly angelic being of light - Jesus said false Christs... as if they are the second coming of Christ. This is what Satan's ultimate false charade will be.

2 Thess 2 says
8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Rev 13 says the entire world is deceived by it.
3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been fatally wounded, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” ...

7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation. 8 All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

.... 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of the sky to the earth in the presence of people. 14 And he deceives those who live on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who live on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

... 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 and he decrees that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Rev 14 has the antidote message to this world wide deception..
Rev 14:
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven with an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation, tribe, language, and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth, and sea and springs of waters.”

8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” 12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

===========================

There is one Denomination that has as its official stated mission - to proclaim that problem-solving end-time-warning, end-time-Rev 14 message.

========================
Once that message is complete -- then in Rev 15:8 we have the close of probation for mankind.
And in Rev 16 - the seven last plagues
And in Rev 19 the appearing of Christ at the end. Which starts the 1000 year millennium
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,611
12,058
Georgia
✟1,119,694.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Questions _ Couldn't a minister, theologian, teacher, preacher, of the gospel be considered a prophet?
What is a prophet but one that delivers the Word of God?

Not according to the Bible definition in 1 Cor 12 and in Numbers 12, Eph 4 etc.

Numbers 12
:
6 He said,“Now hear My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, will make Myself known to him in a vision.
I will speak with him in a dream
.


1 Cor 12:
28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

Eph 4
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Couldn't false prophets refer to many of the ministers throughout all the denominations of Christianity? I personally believe so.

Not according to the texts above where we see prophets are a very distinct gift/group from pastors , teachers, evangelists.

Deception comes in many forms and through many avenues -- so you are right that there are false pastors, teachers, evangelists and also false prophets (just as there are true ones). But they are not all "the same thing" just because they are in the "false" teaching group.
 
Upvote 0

Adventist Dissident

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2006
5,403
531
Parts Unknown
✟537,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?
Question: the phrase "I am the Christ" are they saying Jesus is the Christ, or are they saying They are the Christ? I am unclear on this point, because He states they will come in my name.
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
7,736
2,561
Perth
✟215,727.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Question: the phrase "I am the Christ" are they saying Jesus is the Christ, or are they saying They are the Christ? I am unclear on this point, because He states they will come in my name.
If a person says "I am the Christ" I'd take that as a claim by that person to be the Messiah.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jonaitis

Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 4, 2019
5,360
4,308
Wyoming
✟158,757.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?
Well, we are already living in the last days (Acts 2:17), and many of these events have already happened. There were many people, rebel leaders, who claimed to be the Messiah during the Jewish conflicts with Rome during the first couple centuries, with the one of the most remembered individuals named Simon ben Koseba. The "end" spoken here is directed at the Jewish audience. The Church Age was the eschatological period for Old Testament prophecy.
 
Upvote 0

apollosdtr

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
3,626
544
midwest
✟37,965.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Questions _ Couldn't a minister, theologian, teacher, preacher, of the gospel be considered a prophet?
What is a prophet but one that delivers the Word of God?
Couldn't false prophets refer to many of the ministers throughout all the denominations of Christianity? I personally believe so.

Matthew 23:8-10 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master: Christ; and all ye are brethren.[9] And call no man your father upon the Earth: for one is your Father, which is in Heaven.[10] Neither be ye called teachers: for one is your Teacher: Christ.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd and know My sheep, and am known of Mine. poimen = a shepherd (literally or figuratively):--shepherd, pastor.
 
Upvote 0

apollosdtr

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
3,626
544
midwest
✟37,965.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "Take heed that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.

9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.


What thoughts do you have, given this passage from the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, regarding the end [of this worldly order]?

Matthew 24:4-5 And Ιησους answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.[5] For many shall come in My name, saying, I am anointed; and shall deceive many.

The should have translated (Χριστός) Christ into "anointed".
Can't come "in the name of Jesus Christ" AND call yourself Christ.

Matthew 24:4-14 echoes Matthew 10:5-42, and then echoes in Revelation.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Sheila Davis
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
7,736
2,561
Perth
✟215,727.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Matthew 24:4-5 And Ιησους answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.[5] For many shall come in My name, saying, I am anointed; and shall deceive many.

The should have translated (Χριστός) Christ into "anointed".
Can't come "in the name of Jesus Christ" AND call yourself Christ.

Matthew 24:4-14 echoes Matthew 10:5-42, and then echoes in Revelation.
This looks like a case of word analysis leading to self confusion.
 
Upvote 0

Adventist Dissident

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Sep 18, 2006
5,403
531
Parts Unknown
✟537,856.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If a person says "I am the Christ" I'd take that as a claim by that person to be the Messiah.
yet how could they come in His name? that is the confusing part.
 
Upvote 0

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
May 18, 2022
7,736
2,561
Perth
✟215,727.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
yet how could they come in His name? that is the confusing part.
It would be hard to convince Christians that "I am the Christ" if one did not claim to be a Christian. And if one claims to be a Christian then one is coming in Christ's name.
 
Upvote 0