BABerean2

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"THIS IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
And his commandments include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Do you think the Apostle John changed his mind after he wrote the passage below, in the same letter?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.
 
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pasifika

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"IF you LOVE Me - KEEP my commandments" John 14:15 is a teaching of Jesus you seem to be missing in that statement above.

"LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6 is a teaching of scripture you seem to be missing in that statement above.

"THIS IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
And his commandments include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

No wonder Jesus said "KEEP the Commandments" Matt 19
No wonder Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
No wonder the NEW Covenant writes the LAW of God on the heart - Jer 31:31-34

====================

Rom 8:4-10 says that someone without Christ "does NOT submit to the LAW of God , neither indeed CAN they"
Hello @BobRyan since you quoted Jesus statement in John 14:15.."If you Love me keep my commandments"...

So my question is ; Do you Love Him by keeping His commandments?? I mean ALL His commandments? Not one or two or three but ALL?

The answer is either Yes or No...

Thanks Bob
 
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BobRyan

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Hello @BobRyan since you quoted Jesus statement in John 14:15.."If you Love me keep my commandments"...

So my question is ; Do you Love Him by keeping His commandments?? I mean ALL His commandments? Not one or two or three but ALL?

The answer is either Yes or No...

Thanks Bob

Are you asking if I am sinless?? Yes or no will do
 
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pasifika

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Are you asking if I am sinless?? Yes or no will do

I'm asking if whether you Love Him by keeping His commandments? All commandments..yes or No

If you keep His commandments then Yes you're sinless don't you think?
 
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Danthemailman

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I'm asking if whether you Love Him by keeping His commandments? All commandments..yes or No

If you keep His commandments then Yes you're sinless don't you think?
How do most people define "keep" His commandments? The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to "guard, observe, watch over." - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

If "keep" was defined as "flawlessly obey 100% of the time" then only those who have done so would be sinless, yet only Jesus Christ was sinless and flawlessly obeyed the commandments 100% of the time.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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How do most people define "keep" His commandments? The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to "guard, observe, watch over." - Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

If "keep" was defined as "flawlessly obey 100% of the time" then only those who have done so would be sinless, yet only Jesus Christ was sinless and flawlessly obeyed the commandments 100% of the time.
So should we just ignore Jesus when He said go sin no more and instead do the opposite- go and sin freely?

According to Jesus: But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26

Sad people think that sin is greater than our God.

With Jesus He can give us victory over sin. Jesus doesn’t teach we have to do it by ourselves either. He gives us the Holy Spirit for those who obey and want to obey.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
 
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Danthemailman

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So should we just ignore Jesus when He said go sin no more and instead do the opposite- go and sin freely?

According to Jesus: But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26

Sad people think that sin is greater than our God.

With Jesus He can give us victory over sin. Jesus doesn’t teach we have to do it by ourselves either. He gives us the Holy Spirit for those who obey and want to obey.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (Ecclesiates 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10) exactly like Jesus Christ? (Hebrews 4:15) Your eisegesis of those passages of scripture you cited leads to sinless perfection and works salvation.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Do you think the Apostle John changed his mind after he wrote the passage below, in the same letter?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.
Love according to God is keeping the commandments written right in the Ten. Exodus 20:6

John in the New Testament reaffirms this:

This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

Jesus of course does not contradict His Father and confirms exactly what His Father said in Exodus: If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15. When asked which commandments quotes directly from His Fathers commandments written by the finger of God. Matthew 19:17-19 and Jesus tells us to keep the least of the commandments again quoting verbatim from His Father’s commandment Matthew 5:17-30.

We should not put Jesus against the Father as His commandments are one of the same which was prophesied by Isaiah that Jesus came to magnify the law of God, which means make greater not lesser. Isaiah 42:21
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Do you claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (Ecclesiates 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10) exactly like Jesus Christ? (Hebrews 4:15) Your eisegesis of those passages of scripture you cited eads to sinless perfection and works salvation.
I never said I was sinless, but I trust Jesus when He says through God all things are possible. Do you not believe Jesus? Matthew 19:26

Scripture shows us all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, so no I am not claiming to be sinless. But through the Holy Spirit we can gain victory over sin John 14:15-18

With Jesus we have an Advocate 1 John 2:1 who we can go to directly for the forgiveness of sins and I do think through Jesus we can gain victor over perpetually sinning. Please show me scripture saying once forgiven we can sin freely and should not try to overcome our sin?

Who are we a slave to?

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
 
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Danthemailman

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I never said I was sinless, but I trust Jesus when He says through God all things are possible. Do you not believe Jesus? Matthew 19:26
I believe Jesus, yet by that do you believe Jesus meant its possible for us to be sinless? Only Jesus was sinless.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I believe Jesus, yet by that do you believe Jesus meant its possible for us to be sinless? Only Jesus was sinless.
Quote one verse in scripture that said when Jesus forgives we can go and continue to sin freely or that we should not try to overcome sin.

We instead have this warning- one of many.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Happy Sabbath all! We should believe in the blessings that are promised when we obey.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”


I’m off for now. Have a blessed Sabbath!
 
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Danthemailman

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Quote one verse in scripture that said when Jesus forgives we can go and continue to sin freely or that we should not try to overcome sin.

We instead have this warning- one of many.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
I never said anything about going and sinning willingly and freely with no goal or effort to refrain, yet your continued eisegesis points you right back to sinless perfection.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I never said anything about going and sinning willingly and freely with no goal or effort to refrain, yet your continued interpretation of scripture points right back to sinless perfection.
Which is it- We sin willfully or we obey? There is no grey area.

I hope you have a blessed day.

God bless.
 
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Danthemailman

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In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows ongoing, willful, habitual action. One's lifestyle or bent of life. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
 
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Danthemailman

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Which is it- We sin willfully or we obey? There is no grey area.

I hope you have a blessed day.

God bless.
Apparently it's only flawless or lawless with you. No grey area. Are you flawless?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Apparently it's only flawless or lawless with you. No grey area. Are you flawless?
No one can be flawless on their own, but I believe with the power of Jesus Christ all things -not some things- Jesus said through God ALL things are possible including gaining power over sin. We should trust and believe Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

There is a difference between sinner and sinning. Jesus died so we could be forgiven of our sins when we repent and for sanctification. True repentance means you have a changed heart and look to Him and walk in His Spirit of newness who can give you the power to overcome sin according to scripture. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

Now I really must go for now. Please take care.
 
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Danthemailman

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No one can be flawless on their own, but I believe with the power of Jesus Christ all things -not some things- Jesus said through God ALL things are possible including gaining power over sin. We should trust and believe Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

There is a difference between sinner and sinning. Jesus died so we could be forgiven of our sins when we repent. True repentance means you have a changed heart and look to Him and walk in His Spirit of newness who can give you the power to overcome sin according to scripture. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

Now I really must go for now. Please take care.
Have you flawlessly obeyed the commandments 100% of the time? which brings me back to my first post. What does it mean to "keep" His commandments?
 
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BABerean2

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Love according to God is keeping the commandments written right in the Ten. Exodus 20:6

John in the New Testament reaffirms this:

This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3


1Jn 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


.
 
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Icyspark

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Apparently it's only flawless or lawless with you. No grey area. Are you flawless?


Hi Danthemailman,

Jesus says sin no more.
John says not to sin.
Paul says stop sinning.
Peter says stop sinning.
Sinners don't have to sin.

My question for you is--setting Jesus out of this equation--which one of these Bible authors was flawlessly keeping the commandments 100% of the time? If they were not sinless, then why do you not reject each of them and the entirety of their messages based on the fact that they are hypocritically admonishing others to stop sinning?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 
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