Has the Holy Spirit explicitly led you to keep the Sabbath?

[Leaf473]

I think you answered your own question. In modern times we have clocks and technology to tell us when it is sunset. In biblical times they depended on the sun/moon for the times/months etc.

But a clock won't tell you if it's the 6th day or the 7th day. That's based on the international date line, something not in the Bible. I haven't researched it yet, but I think it's a product of the British empire. The prime meridian "just happens" to run through England.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But a clock won't tell you if it's the 6th day or the 7th day. That's based on the international date line, something not in the Bible. I haven't researched it yet, but I think it's a product of the British empire. The prime meridian "just happens" to run through England.

Are you saying you don't know what day the seventh day is? The week was created by God from the very beginning and is a weekly cycle that has never changed. Six days God worked Genesis 1 and rested on the seventh day because that is His holy day that He sanctified and blessed. Genesis 2:1-3

There is nothing about international date lines in scripture this is a man-made teaching that leads people away from keeping God's commandments.

 

[Leaf473]

Are you saying you don't know what day the seventh day is? The week was created by God from the very beginning and is a weekly cycle that has never changed. Six days God worked Genesis 1 and rested on the seventh day because that is His holy day that He sanctified and blessed. Genesis 2:1-3

There is nothing about international date lines in scripture this is a man-made teaching that leads people away from keeping God's commandments.

Here's what I'm saying:

Pick a place on Earth where the sun is about to set at the end of the 6th day.

Now follow that sunset West for about an hour. It's still the same sunset, right? It's still the end of the 6th day? But you're about a thousand miles west of where you used to be. (These are all round numbers.)

Now follow it another hour West. I'm assuming it's still the same sunset, same day. But now you're about 2,000 miles away.

Keep going 5 hours, 10 hours... When you hit 12 hours, you're on the opposite side of the Earth, right?

Keep going until you follow the sunset a full 24 hours. Now you're back where you started. But it's still the same sunset, the end of the 6th day. But it was the end of the sixth day there 24 hours earlier.

Can you see the issue?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here's what I'm saying:

Pick a place on Earth where the sun is about to set at the end of the 6th day.

Now follow that sunset West for about an hour. It's still the same sunset, right? It's still the end of the 6th day? But you're about a thousand miles west of where you used to be. (These are all round numbers.)

Now follow it another hour West. I'm assuming it's still the same sunset, same day. But now you're about 2,000 miles away.

Keep going 5 hours, 10 hours... When you hit 12 hours, you're on the opposite side of the Earth, right?

Keep going until you follow the sunset a full 24 hours. Now you're back where you started. But it's still the same sunset, the end of the 6th day. But it was the end of the sixth day there 24 hours earlier.

Can you see the issue?

I think anyone could find an off-the wall reason and talk themselves out of why they don’t need to obey. If thats sits right with you, that can be between you and God. For me,I don’t find it complicated to follow God’s Sabbath commandment. I find it a blessing, just like the Lord promised. Isaiah 58:13-14 God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

I think anyone could find an off-the wall reason and talk themselves out of why they don’t need to obey. If thats sits right with you, that can be between you and God. For me,I don’t find it complicated to follow God’s Sabbath commandment. I find it a blessing, just like the Lord promised. Isaiah 58:13-14 God bless.

I know it sounds off the wall, but it's actually important when it comes to deciding what day it is. The Earth rotates, and there has to be a place where the days "reset".

When I'm writing this, it's about 6:00 a.m. eastern time Tuesday.

But what happens if we put the international date line in the middle of the Atlantic? Now it's 6:00 a.m. Wednesday for me.

Does it matter? Only if certain things have to be done on a certain day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I know it sounds off the wall, but it's actually important when it comes to deciding what day it is. The Earth rotates, and there has to be a place where the days "reset".

When I'm writing this, it's about 6:00 a.m. eastern time Tuesday.

But what happens if we put the international date line in the middle of the Atlantic? Now it's 6:00 a.m. Wednesday for me.

Does it matter? Only if certain things have to be done on a certain day.

Not if one is following God’s Word. The weekly cycle has never changed. People seem to know which day Sunday is, only those who try to find every excuse in the book can’t seem to accept Saturday is the seventh day., the holy day of the Lord The same weekly cycle that has been from the beginning of Creation. Look at any ancient language Sabbath is Saturday, the seventh day. Take care

Some references for those interested…

https://www.sabbathtruth.com/portals/20/documents/chart-of-the-week.pdf

 

[Bob S]

The law was given at Sinai. That is where the 48-hour Sabbath cycle began. Then came man and shifted that starting date to somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. Now the weekly 48-hour Sabbath cycle begins with the Sabbath observers in New Zeeland Samoa and then to Australia. No longer is that cycle at the point it all started. Sabbath observers no longer worship on the day God commanded the Israelites to worship.

The fact is that Christians do not have to be concerned as to which day we should corporately gather ourselves because we are not under the laws that God gave to the Israelites at Sinai. We are under the laws of the new and better covenant Jesus ratified with His own blood at Calvary.

 

[daq]

Here's what I'm saying:

Pick a place on Earth where the sun is about to set at the end of the 6th day.

Now follow that sunset West for about an hour. It's still the same sunset, right? It's still the end of the 6th day? But you're about a thousand miles west of where you used to be. (These are all round numbers.)

Now follow it another hour West. I'm assuming it's still the same sunset, same day. But now you're about 2,000 miles away.

Keep going 5 hours, 10 hours... When you hit 12 hours, you're on the opposite side of the Earth, right?

Keep going until you follow the sunset a full 24 hours. Now you're back where you started. But it's still the same sunset, the end of the 6th day. But it was the end of the sixth day there 24 hours earlier.

Can you see the issue?

Let's say that you and I both observe the Shabbat hour of every day, which is the seventh hour of the sacred calendar day. And you and I live about a thousand miles apart and just happen to live near the imaginary borders of the man-made time zones: and one of us lives a thousand mile due west of the other. When the seventh hour of the day commences for the one living eastward, it is one hour before the daily Shabbat for the one living westward. When the daily Shabbat hour comes to a close for the one living eastward, the same daily Shabbat hour is just commencing for the one living westward. And this continues all the way around the world for the time zones and those in their different time zones who also know that there is a daily Shabbat hour in each and every day.

Therefore the Shabbat never ends because the Father has His people worshiping Him, in Spirit and in truth, in each and every hour of every day at least somewhere on the earth.

 

[guevaraj]

Are you saying you don't know what day the seventh day is?

Does it matter? Only if certain things have to be done on a certain day.

Then came man and shifted that starting date to somewhere in the Pacific Ocean.

Brothers and Sisters, when Judaism became aware of this International Date Line, they did not like where it was in the middle of the pacific ocean and they tried to change it to fall on Israel. However, Judaism was already spread all over the world keeping the Sabbath, they could not agree on a change of the International Date Line different from the current site, showing that discovered was the current site and not invented by humans. God's prime meridian is recorded in the Sabbath kept to this day by Judaism. We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week. In the following passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the creation week remembered in the time zone of creation.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

God gave instructions to remember the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time, from evening to evening, than the seventh day of the week from morning to morning; defined in Genesis and confirmed below.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Brothers and Sisters, when Judaism became aware of this International Date Line, they did not like where it was in the middle of the pacific ocean and they tried to change it to fall on Israel. However, Judaism was already spread all over the world keeping the Sabbath, they could not agree on a change of the International Date Line different from the current site, showing that discovered was the current site and not invented by humans. God's prime meridian is recorded in the Sabbath kept to this day by Judaism. We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week. In the following passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the creation week remembered in the time zone of creation.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

God gave instructions to remember the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time, from evening to evening than the seventh day of the week from morning to morning, defined in Genesis and confirmed below.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

We are all accountable for what we teach. There is nothing in Hebrews 4:8 that says everyone has been keeping the Sabbath wrong including Jesus and you are the only one who understands. For me, I am sticking with the clear scriptures. Jesus warned us about teaching others to break God's commandments so I would prayerfully consider what you're teaching. Matthew 5:19

No point in responding back to me, we can agree to disagree. Take care

 

[guevaraj]

We are all accountable for what we teach. There is nothing in Hebrews 4:8 that says everyone has been keeping the Sabbath wrong including Jesus and you are the only one who understands. For me, I am sticking with the clear scriptures. Jesus warned us about teaching others to break God's commandments so I would prayerfully consider what you're teaching. Matthew 5:19 No point in responding back to me, we can agree to disagree. Take care

Sister, I can give the word of God to the people of Western Samoa, without giving humans the ability to change God's holy day. The only thing you can tell them is to keep the seventh day that the government decides. The old seventh day of the week in Samoa was wrong and now Samoa has aligned with God's true prime meridian. Those who accepted the change are right and the old seventh day tradition was wrong about the correct day of the week in Samoa. However, both sides are wrong on how to enter the true biblical Sabbath all over the world. Neither side understands the Sabbath is kept in the creation time zone, as Jesus did in Jerusalem and tells us later through the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 3 and 4.

“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’ (John 16:12-15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sister, I can give the word of God to the people of Western Samoa, without giving humans the ability to change God's holy day. The only thing you can tell them is to keep the seventh day that the government decides. The old seventh day of the week in Samoa was wrong and now Samoa has aligned with God's true prime meridian. Those who accepted the change are right and the old seventh day tradition was wrong about the correct day of the week in Samoa. However, both sides are wrong on how to enter the true biblical Sabbath all over the world. Neither side understands the Sabbath is kept in the creation time zone, as Jesus did in Jerusalem and tells us later through the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 3 and 4.

“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’ (John 16:12-15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

This is the official SDA belief on the Sabbath which harmonizes scriptures.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

 

[guevaraj]

The church you claim to be part of disagrees with your opinion.

Sister, I am sharing what God says we will understand through the writings of our prophetess below. God told us through her to pay attention to "when it is" that evening falls being "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath", but she did not understand "when it is" that evening falls when she "followed the people of God up to this time".

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

As she tells us "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath" in Genesis, I came to understand "when it is" that evening falls on the first day. An evening can only occur after light and falls in the middle of the first day, in the special case of the first day, between first light to light again in the morning. Before the light, there was darkness and not an evening. Those are different words that are not interchangeable.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sister, I am sharing what God says we will understand through the writings of our prophetess below. God told us through her to pay attention to "when it is" that evening falls being "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath", but she did not understand "when it is" that evening falls when she "followed the people of God up to this time".

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

As she tells us "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath" in Genesis, I came to understand "when it is" that evening falls on the first day. An evening can only occur after light and falls in the middle of the first day, in the special case of the first day, between first light to light again in the morning. Before the light, there was darkness and not an evening. Those are different words that are not interchangeable.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Nonsense.

 

[guevaraj]

Nonsense.

Sister, the church will understand the truth about the days of the week from morning to morning and what it means to keep the Sabbath from evening to evening in the Promised Land, where "another day" refers to a different day than thought for the Sabbath: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the week of creation.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Remember that the angel said that "Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet".

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Not if one is following God’s Word. The weekly cycle has never changed. People seem to know which day Sunday is, only those who try to find every excuse in the book can’t seem to accept Saturday is the seventh day., the holy day of the Lord The same weekly cycle that has been from the beginning of Creation. Look at any ancient language Sabbath is Saturday, the seventh day. Take care

Some references for those interested…

https://www.sabbathtruth.com/portals/20/documents/chart-of-the-week.pdf

I agree that people seem to know when Saturday is. That's because they use the international date line, probably without even realizing it.

What do you see God's word saying about the daily "reset" or where it should occur?

 

[Leaf473]

Brothers and Sisters, when Judaism became aware of this International Date Line, they did not like where it was in the middle of the pacific ocean and they tried to change it to fall on Israel. However, Judaism was already spread all over the world keeping the Sabbath, they could not agree on a change of the International Date Line different from the current site, showing that discovered was the current site and not invented by humans. God's prime meridian is recorded in the Sabbath kept to this day by Judaism. We understood "what even is" but we have not understood "when it is": even falls in the middle of the first day and not as supposed was at the beginning because the Sabbath in Israel is not as supposed a day of the week. In the following passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the creation week remembered in the time zone of creation.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

God gave instructions to remember the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time, from evening to evening, than the seventh day of the week from morning to morning; defined in Genesis and confirmed below.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hi guevaraj my man,

I thought, based on our conversation here, that the key idea in your thinking was that the Sabbath started at sunset in Jerusalem. Regardless of where one lived in the world, that was the fixed time.

Are different Sabbaths true?

Of course we can use the international date line for business purposes. And God may have had a hand in setting it up where it is.

But my impression was that the IDL was irrelevant when calculating the Sabbath using your method. If I remember right, we basically started with sunset in Jerusalem and then found the location of Eden. It was the place where the sun rises at the same time that the sun sets in Jerusalem throughout the year.

 

[Leaf473]

Sister, I can give the word of God to the people of Western Samoa, without giving humans the ability to change God's holy day. The only thing you can tell them is to keep the seventh day that the government decides. The old seventh day of the week in Samoa was wrong and now Samoa has aligned with God's true prime meridian. Those who accepted the change are right and the old seventh day tradition was wrong about the correct day of the week in Samoa. However, both sides are wrong on how to enter the true biblical Sabbath all over the world. Neither side understands the Sabbath is kept in the creation time zone, as Jesus did in Jerusalem and tells us later through the Holy Spirit in Hebrews 3 and 4.

“There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can’t bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by telling you whatever he receives from me. All that belongs to the Father is mine; this is why I said, ‘The Spirit will tell you whatever he receives from me.’ (John 16:12-15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I've heard about this Samoa situation. As far as I know, there is no treaty binding nations regarding the IDL. You can see that it zigzags all over to accommodate things like the very east of Russia and the very Western Aleutian Islands.

The government of New Zealand or Japan could decide they want to be on the other side. Then people living there who wanted to worship on the 7th day would have to decide if they wanted to have a special week with an extra day or keep the same day which would now feel like the 6th.

 

[Leaf473]

This is the official SDA belief on the Sabbath which harmonizes scriptures.

The gracious Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation. The fourth commandment of God’s unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another. It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God’s kingdom. The Sabbath is God’s perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God’s creative and redemptive acts. (Gen. 2:1-3; Exod. 20:8-11; 31:13-17; Lev. 23:32; Deut. 5:12-15; Isa. 56:5, 6; 58:13, 14; Ezek. 20:12, 20; Matt. 12:1-12; Mark 1:32; Luke 4:16; Heb. 4:1-11.)

I see that it says "evening to evening, sunset to sunset". I don't see that it says sunset where you are or sunset at a fixed place.

Do they specify that somewhere? Would you prefer to answer on the Denomination Specific forum?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I see that it says "evening to evening, sunset to sunset". I don't see that it says sunset where you are or sunset at a fixed place.

Do they specify that somewhere? Would you prefer to answer on the Denomination Specific forum?

If it was on a specific time zone it God would have stated. Our Jewish friends have been keeping the Sabbath since the time of Jesus and they were not "zapped away" and many still keep the Sabbath regardless where they live.

I'm not interested in going down this rabbit hole so we will have to agree to disagree.