Texas woman with ectopic pregnancy denied abortion

[ozso]

I have no problem calling a fetus a human being, not sure about a zygote though.

Since as far as I know zygotes aren't clinically aborted it really isn't germane to the topic.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I have no problem calling a fetus a human being, not sure about a zygote though.

But if life begins at conception, it's still murder.

 

[Yttrium]

That monumentally twisted idea formed the basis of the most evil governments in history. You've cut off the branch on which you sit, but I'm satisfied with the way you've proven that the alleged right to abortion can be supported only by overthrowing the foundational law of these United States.

Or we could amend the Constitution. The foundation is designed to be adjusted over time.

 

[ximmix]

But if life begins at conception, it's still murder.

If abortion is considered illegal it would be, yes.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If abortion is considered illegal it would be, yes.

It is considered illegal in several states -- some of which have officially decreed that life begins at conception.

 

[ozso]

But if life begins at conception, it's still murder.

But again are zygotes ever clinically aborted? I figure by the time most pregnanices are detected the baby is already at the fetus stage of development. And then there's however much time transpires between making an appointment and getting the abortion.

 

[ottawak]

That monumentally twisted idea formed the basis of the most evil governments in history. You've cut off the branch on which you sit, but I'm satisfied with the way you've proven that the alleged right to abortion can be supported only by overthrowing the foundational law of these United States.

So government of the people, by the people, for the people is a monumentally twisted idea?

 

[ozso]

That monumentally twisted idea formed the basis of the most evil governments in history. You've cut off the branch on which you sit, but I'm satisfied with the way you've proven that the alleged right to abortion can be supported only by overthrowing the foundational law of these United States.

Also this was part of the original hippocratic oath:

"I will give no deadly medicine to anyone if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art."

Contemporary Medical Students’ Perceptions of the Hippocratic Oath.

Pessary is a medical device inserted into the vagina.

 

[ottawak]

But again are zygotes ever clinically aborted? I figure by the time most pregnanices are detected the baby is already at the fetus stage of development. And then there's however much time transpires between making an appointment and getting the abortion.

You never heard of the "morning after" pill? Anyway, the fetus stage does not begin until about 8 weeks, by which time about 2/3 of abortions have already been performed.

 

[ozso]

You never heard of the "morning after" pill?

Yes I've heard of it. That's why I specified clinical abortion. Because I knew you'd bring it up.

Anyway, the fetus stage does not begin until about 8 weeks, by which time about 2/3 of abortions have already been performed.

I'll have to look into that.

 

[ottawak]

Yes I've heard of it. That's why I specified clinical abortion. Because I knew you'd bring it up.

Why is it important to you that the zygote stage is not subject to clinical abortion? I don't see the point. Most first trimester abortions are no longer "clinical" anymore.

I'll have to look into that.

A commonplace observation that most people well informed enough to argue about abortion know aready? I thought I was just reminding you, not presenting you with something astonishing and controversial.

 

[TLK Valentine]

But again are zygotes ever clinically aborted?

Plan B/Morning After Pill...

I figure by the time most pregnanices are detected the baby is already at the fetus stage of development.

The Texas law which claimed "six weeks" actually meant six weeks from the woman's last period... not the one she misses, but the last one she had.

Assuming that the missed period is usually the first sign a woman gets that she might be pregnant, approximately four weeks have already passed before she even knows... putting the woman in a position to make an informed choice before it gets to be a fetus doesn't seem to be a priority.

And then there's however much time transpires between making an appointment and getting the abortion.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in NYC, where access to abortion isn't restricted, same-day appointments are common. The procedure itself can be done in about 5-10 minutes.

Any delays are political, not medical.

 

[ozso]

Why is it important to you that the zygote stage is not subject to clinical abortion? I don't see the point. Most first trimester abortions are no longer "clinical" anymore.

A commonplace observation that most people well informed enough to argue about abortion know aready? I thought I was just reminding you, not presenting you with something astonishing and controversial.

I haven't sat down and researched the data in depth. Which for me goes beyond looking at one graph and what general information I've heard about it.

 

[ozso]

Plan B/Morning After Pill...

That's not an abortion performed by doctors in a clinic or hospital. Which is what this thread is about.

The Texas law which claimed "six weeks" actually meant six weeks from the woman's last period... not the one she misses, but the last one she had.

Assuming that the missed period is usually the first sign a woman gets that she might be pregnant, approximately four weeks have already passed before she even knows... putting the woman in a position to make an informed choice before it gets to be a fetus doesn't seem to be a priority.




I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in NYC, where access to abortion isn't restricted, same-day appointments are common. The procedure itself can be done in about 5-10 minutes.

Any delays are political, not medical.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Idaho had a bill in their state legislature that was going to prohibit people from leaving the state to get gender affirming care for their transgender child. Idaho lawmakers seek to punish parents who take trans youth to other states for health care
This isn’t as far away as you would like to try to convince people of.

I hope it passes; it's a very sick thought that adults would presume to know that a child (who is not even mature enough mentally yet) wants to go through gender transformation. Somebody with some good sense needs to prevent this from happening. We can't be playing with the lives of young children like that. When the come of age (21), they can then pursue the thought of gender transformation (allow though I for one think the whole thing is disturbing).

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's not an abortion performed by doctors in a clinic or hospital. Which is what this thread is about.

It's only murder if a doctor does it in a clinic or hospital?

[Staff Edit]

 

[ozso]

It's only murder if a doctor does it in a clinic or hospital?

[Staff Edit]

So you want to shift the topic from laws regarding doctors performing abortions to individuals taking pharmaceuticals?

 

[TLK Valentine]

So you want to shift the topic from laws regarding doctors performing abortions to individuals taking pharmaceuticals?

Pharmaceuticals given by a doctor, who instructed them on their use and intended effect.

Abortion is abortion whether it's done surgically or pharmaceutically.

Murder is murder whether it's done with a knife or with pills.

Are you sure you're "pro-life" and not just anti-doctor?

 

[Desk trauma]

I hope it passes; it's a very sick thought that adults would presume to know that a child (who is not even mature enough mentally yet) wants to go through gender transformation. Somebody with some good sense needs to prevent this from happening. We can't be playing with the lives of young children like that. When the come of age (21), they can then pursue the thought of gender transformation (allow though I for one think the whole thing is disturbing).

So much for relaxing because states will never pass laws restricting interstate travel.

 

[Belk]

I hope it passes; it's a very sick thought that adults would presume to know that a child (who is not even mature enough mentally yet) wants to go through gender transformation. Somebody with some good sense needs to prevent this from happening. We can't be playing with the lives of young children like that. When the come of age (21), they can then pursue the thought of gender transformation (allow though I for one think the whole thing is disturbing).

Yes. Why would parents or medical doctors know about a child they deal with. Much better we have complete strangers make decisions about what is right for them based off their religious beliefs.