Why are some Christians anti Evolution?

[BNR32FAN]

No need. I have spoken with creationists who were quite specific that there are only two narrative possibillites (100% accurate literal history, or useless fiction) rather than a range of types for different narrative agendas.

Well a person either believes something or they don’t. If they’re not sure then they still don’t believe it. Believing something is being sure that it is true without a doubt. I have no doubt there are many people who believe bits & pieces of the Bible but in my opinion that’s just a convenient way to doubt the word of God. Either it’s all true or it’s useless for building doctrines because then people can just believe what they want by omitting anything that doesn’t appeal to them. One thing is for certain it’s not ok for us to just believe whatever we want because there’s only one truth and truth is never subjective.

 

[Bradskii]

Your viewing death from an atheist standpoint where death is the ultimate punishment and the end of all things for that person. I view it from a spiritual standpoint in that it is only a relocation from one place to another. I think it’s possible that there was still hope for people in hades. They might be the people Jesus went and preached to for 3 days after His death, I don’t know. In any case I trust that God knows what He is doing and that He is just, kind, loving, and merciful to those who repent.

No. I'm viewing death from a position of mercy. And compassion. And justice. And basic humanity. Burying a woman up to her neck and throwing rocks at her head until she is dead is evil. Period. That you are attempting to justify it in any way whatsoever is despicable.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And there's your sub topic.

Kind of. But AV seems to have requalified the semantic nuances of his earlier assertion.

So, in quick order, that subtopic is now passe, I guess.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How about instead we not assume that the ancient Israelites were complete moral, or legal, clods?

Could this be a possible answer we might offer back to our atheistic and skeptical constituents, too?

I don’t know how effectively it would be received by atheist skeptics, I mean we’re talking about speculation which really doesn’t hold much weight as evidence.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well a person either believes something or they don’t. If they’re not sure then they still don’t believe it. Believing something is being sure that it is true without a doubt. I have no doubt there are many people who believe bits & pieces of the Bible but in my opinion that’s just a convenient way to doubt the word of God. Either it’s all true or it’s useless for building doctrines because then people can just believe what they want by omitting anything that doesn’t appeal to them. One thing is for certain it’s not ok for us to just believe whatever we want because there’s only one truth and truth is never subjective.

... oh no! Have you studied Epistemology at some time or another, BNR32FAN.

You're insinuation here that there is a "Slippery Slope" due to a dichotomy in the dynamics of Christian belief regarding the nature of the Bible seems to tell me you haven't engaged Epistemological problems all that much.

It's a fallacy to assume an epistemic slippery slope exists in such a binary fashion. There's more to Christian belief than simply whether or not we might think that every single "jot and tittle" has some kind of absolute, divinely embossed spiritual seal that we dare not break.

This is, here, is partly why you're having a difficult time engaging the Theory of Evolution.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Take any story from literature. Take any legend. Take any story involving heroes and great deeds. That we know that many of them are not literally true is not based on the premise that the events defy the laws of science. They didn't happen because we understand them to be stories which serve a purpose other than being a factual account. They serve to teach us about the human condition or simply just to entertain us. But there is nothing to say that they could not have happened.

But then there are many stories that cannot be true for mere mortals because they do defy nature. Fantasies and magic and mere men performing miracles.

So did Hiawatha kill a giant fish or someone called Ahab hunt a white whale? Almost certainly not. But they could have. But did Perseus kill Medusa? No. He didn't.

One is not true, but it could have happened. One is not true because it's impossible.

Yes so let’s compare those examples with the Bible. A talking donkey is that possible? Lot’s wife turned into a pillar of salt is that possible? Turning a wooden staff into a snake then back into a wooden staff, is that possible? I mean there’s over 150 examples in the Bible of impossible events that took place.

 

[Astrid]

She's evidently a Platonist and thinks that taxons are pre-exiting categories into which creatures are supposed to evolve.

Could be. Creations are not biologists and have
strange ideas.
The eternally repeated " cat turn into dog" thing,
that we are earnestly told "will never happen" is maybe
what " crossover" means.

 

[Astrid]

Yes so let’s compare those examples with the Bible. A talking donkey is that possible? Lot’s wife turned into a pillar of salt is that possible? Turning a wooden staff into a snake then back into a wooden staff, is that possible? I mean there’s over 150 examples in the Bible of impossible events that took place.

" that are said to have taken place"

 

[ottawak]

Yes so let’s compare those examples with the Bible. A talking donkey is that possible? Lot’s wife turned into a pillar of salt is that possible? Turning a wooden staff into a snake then back into a wooden staff, is that possible? I mean there’s over 150 examples in the Bible of impossible events that took place.

LOL! In fact that snake trick is a good one. I've seen it done in Middle Eastern souks.

 

[Astrid]

... I don't think sister Maria is a Platonist, ottawak. From what I can tell, philosophy isn't her thing.

No, she's just a well meaning, fellow Christian who wants to be faithful to God's Word as she feels led to be. I can't fault her for that.

We can always fault those of sound mind who
fail at anything resembling due diligence.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don’t know how effectively it would be received by atheist skeptics, I mean we’re talking about speculation which really doesn’t hold much weight as evidence.

The reception of this will depend upon how a person defines the nature of the term "Evidence." There's a whole field of study for this singular topic alone, with various interdisciplinary implications.

You need to know this; they need to know this (if they don't already). Otherwise, all of this talk about "evidence based" conclusions ends up becoming a form of double-talk for everyone involved.

Evidence isn't a synonym for proof, and all evidence, or nearly all evidence, is open to interpretation.

Just keep this in mind.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No. I'm viewing death from a position of mercy. And compassion. And justice. And basic humanity. Burying a woman up to her neck and throwing rocks at her head until she is dead is evil. Period. That you are attempting to justify it in any way whatsoever is despicable.

I wasn’t aware that there was any burying but if it’s justice you really want then every single one of us would burn in the lake of fire. That’s justice. Jesus didn’t have to suffer and die on the cross for us, but He did it because it was The Father’s will. That was God’s way of showing mercy to all despite the fact that we didn’t deserve it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

... oh no! Have you studied Epistemology at some time or another, BNR32FAN.

You're insinuation here that there is a "Slippery Slope" due to a dichotomy in the dynamics of Christian belief regarding the nature of the Bible seems to tell me you haven't engaged Epistemological problems all that much.

It's a fallacy to assume an epistemic slippery slope exists in such a binary fashion. There's more to Christian belief than simply whether or not we might think that every single "jot and tittle" has some kind of absolute, divinely embossed spiritual seal that we dare not break.

This is, here, is partly why you're having a difficult time engaging the Theory of Evolution.

Can you give some examples of these “Epistemological problems”?

 

[ottawak]

Well a person either believes something or they don’t. If they’re not sure then they still don’t believe it. Believing something is being sure that it is true without a doubt. I have no doubt there are many people who believe bits & pieces of the Bible but in my opinion that’s just a convenient way to doubt the word of God. Either it’s all true or it’s useless for building doctrines because then people can just believe what they want by omitting anything that doesn’t appeal to them. One thing is for certain it’s not ok for us to just believe whatever we want because there’s only one truth and truth is never subjective.

Isn't that a bit circular? You've decided that if the Bible is divine revelation that it must be literal, so if a person does not think the Bible is literal he must be rejecting divine inspiration. Calling it "a convenient way to doubt the Word of God" is merely offensive. And no, people can't just believe whatever they like about it if it's not literal. That's what serious Bible scholarship is for.

 

[BNR32FAN]

LOL! In fact that snake trick is a good one. I've seen it done in Middle Eastern souks.

Did they turn a wooden staff into a snake then back into a sodden staff?

 

[ottawak]

Did they turn a wooden staff into a snake then back into a sodden staff?

Yes.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What is a "crossover"?

Crossing over from animal to human. Basically the missing link theory. I do not consider humans part of the animal kingdom. Blessings.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

We can always fault those of sound mind who
fail at anything resembling due diligence.

We can. But having "due diligence" implies socially that each person the time, money, aptitude, placement in life, motivation--as well as interpersonal trusts--to study, study, study all that both you and I have respectively studied.

So, forgive me if I give some small amount of leniency to other people, even to other Christians with whom both you and I disagree.

 

[ottawak]

I wasn’t aware that there was any burying but if it’s justice you really want then every single one of us would burn in the lake of fire. That’s justice. Jesus didn’t have to suffer and die on the cross for us, but He did it because it was The Father’s will. That was God’s way of showing mercy to all despite the fact that we didn’t deserve it.

That's one theory, anyway. There are others, some with a better claim to Apostolic antiquity than that. But my own church teaches that the Atonement is a mystery, that is, a cosmic event beyond the ability of any human theory to fully explain.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Calling it "a convenient way to doubt the Word of God" is merely offensive.

Truth is not subject to interpretation it remains constant despite interpretation. Picking and choosing what is literal and what is not apart from the obvious results in an infinite number of alternatives for determining truth which inevitably makes it indeterminable.