Did Christ at the cross end all the laws?

[SabbathBlessings]

So... are you saying circumcision ended because it was a handwritten ordinance?

Circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments and is part of the law of Moses. Paul made this distinction - Circumcision is nothing, uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19

 

[Leaf473]

Circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments and is part of the law of Moses. Paul made this distinction - Circumcision is nothing, uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19

Circumcision is not a handwritten ordinance, then?

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

but the Ten Commandments are the only law that was both personally written by God’s finger, spoken by God’s voice, placed in the ark of the covenant, in the Most Holy of God’s Temple which is also revealed in Heaven.

This sounds great, but the New Testament doesn't make a distinction between "the law" and the 10 commandments because of this. In fact the opposite is true: In the same context in which Paul says that we are not under the law anymore he writes: "I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”" Paul explicitely mentions a law from the 10 commandments as "the law" that we are not under anymore.

Jesus quoting from the Ten means the Ten are still intact.

If this was true then you would have to keep the entirety of the Mosaic law still, because 67% of the commands Jesus quotes are not from the Ten.

 

[Neogaia777]

Jesus understood that not everyone will be judged the exact same, or by the exact same measure, because not everyone is equally capable or able, etc...

"Not all of you should be teachers", etc, etc, etc...

God Bless!

The NT reveals that they willl. . .each will be judged by the light he has (Romans 2:12-16).

Even Jesus did not know how God was going to judge each one, which is also why He said He does not judge anyone, etc...

Just like He also did not know the exact time of the end, but only said that most certainly the Heavenly Father does and always did, etc...

So if you think you do know, then you are going beyond what Jesus knew, etc...

And some might say that "that" is you making yourself your own God/god, which is also making an idol of yourself, and you are your own God/god, etc...

And I will pray that God does not destroy you when He comes for that, etc...

God Bless!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This sounds great, but the New Testament doesn't make a distinction between "the law" and the 10 commandments because of this. In fact the opposite is true: In the same context in which Paul says that we are not under the law anymore he writes: "I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”" Paul explicitely mentions a law from the 10 commandments as "the law" that we are not under anymore.

Paul never taught lawlessness and contradicted Jesus or the other disciples.

If this was true then you would have to keep the entirety of the Mosaic law still, because 67% of the commands Jesus quotes are not from the Ten.

What Paul is saying in Romans 7:7 is that the commandments of God remain as to what points out sin and later says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 so Paul is not contradicting himself, Jesus or the other disciples.

God writes His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10 so yes there are more laws than just the Ten Commandments and Jesus quoted from both the law of God and the law of Moses.

God bless.

 

[Clare73]

Even Jesus did not know how God was going to judge each one, which is also why He said He does not judge anyone, etc...
Just like He also did not know the exact time of the end, but only said that most certainly the Heavenly Father does and always did, etc...
So if you think you do know, then you are going beyond what Jesus knew, etc...

I only know what the NT presents. . .Romans 2:12-16.

And thanks for the prayers.

And some might say that "that" is you making yourself your own God/god, which is also making an idol of yourself, and you are your own God/god, etc...

And I will pray that God does not destroy you when He comes for that, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

What Paul is saying in Romans 7:7 is that the commandments of God remain as to what points out sin and later says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 so Paul is not contradicting himself, Jesus or the other disciples.

God writes His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10 so yes there are more laws than just the Ten Commandments and Jesus quoted from both the law of God and the law of Moses.

God bless.

That's all correct. But sadly nothing of what you wrote here is defending your position, because "the commandments" Paul talks about are nowhere defined as "the Ten". As I've pointed out in previous posts.

And Paul also writes: "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:24-25).

 

[Neogaia777]

You are all going to be destroyed when God comes back.

God Bless!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's all correct. But sadly nothing of what you wrote here is defending your position, because "the commandments" Paul talks about are nowhere defined as "the Ten". As I've pointed out in previous posts.

And Paul also writes: "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under the schoolmaster." (Galatians 3:24-25).

Let’s post the scriptures:

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The key to this verse is “But before faith came”

Paul is talking about his condition of condemnation before he exercised faith in Christ. Being under the law is defined as being guilty before God. Romans 3:19 and under the sentence of death. Romans 7:23 Paul talks about that experience of condemnation. The law was on Paul’s conscious Romans 7:13 and leading him step-by-step like a school master to Christ. Which is why: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul Psalms 19:7. After being directed to Christ by the law, we are justified by faith. The law condemns (wages of sin is death) but through Christ He forgives our sins when we repent and can deliver us from sin. We are not under the condemnation of the law if we are keeping it. Jesus gives us the Spirit when we obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:38, Acts 5:32

There is no scripture that say the Ten Commandments have been deleted in the New Covenant and each of the Ten have been repeated for everyday Christian living.

God bless.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Let’s post the scriptures:

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The key to this verse is “But before faith came”

Paul is talking about his condition of condemnation before he exercised faith in Christ. Being under the law is defined as being guilty before God. Romans 3:19 and under the sentence of death. Romans 7:23 Paul talks about that experience of condemnation. The law was on Paul’s conscious Romans 7:13 and leading him step-by-step like a school master to Christ. Which is why: The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul Psalms 19:7. After being directed to Christ by the law, we are justified by faith. The law condemns (wages of sin is death) but through Christ He forgives our sins when we repent and can deliver us from sin. We are not under the condemnation of the law if we are keeping it. Jesus gives us the Spirit when we obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:38, Acts 5:32

There is no scripture that say the Ten Commandments have been deleted in the New Covenant and each of the Ten have been repeated for everyday Christian living.

God bless.

I'll ask you directly:
When the New Testament speaks of "the law", is it
a) only the 10 commandments or
b) all commandments except the 10 commandments or
c) all of the Torah?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'll ask you directly:
When the New Testament speaks of "the law", is it
a) only the 10 commandments or
b) all commandments except the 10 commandments or
c) all of the Torah?

The law is a generic term, it could mean the law of Moses, it could mean the law of God it could be the law of sin reading in context helps understand which law is being referred to. The commandments of God include the Ten Commandments personally written by God’s own finger.

 

[Guojing]

Where does Jesus mention the Law of Moses in the last verse of Matthew?

He don't need to, here are the commands he told the 11 regarding the Law of Moses

Matthew 5:17-19
Matthew 23:2-3

So if the risen Christ told them to teach others to obey EVERYTHING he commanded them, everything means everything, would you agree?

If Peter had your impression, that certain laws were abolished at the cross, he would not have so much difficulty in eating unclean animals at Acts 10, which was years after the cross.

 

[Guojing]

And did you notice that Jesus never commanded his disciples to keep the Mosaic Law?

Although Jesus spoke about the Mosaic Law many times with the Jews, he never specifically told His disciples to keep them. Jesus gave his disciples many instructions, and what is termed a new commandment in John 13:34-35 and Matthew 22:34-40.

He did, you just choose to ignore them.

Matthew 5:17-19
Matthew 23:2-3

If Peter had your impression, that "Jesus never commanded his disciples to keep the Mosaic Law", he would not have so much difficulty in eating unclean animals at Acts 10:14, which was years after the cross.

And he certainly would not have told Cornelius Acts 10:28

 

[Guojing]

Are you saying you don’t believe the blood of Christ is sufficient for the forgiveness of sins and we should still kill animals and have food offerings for the forgiveness of sins despite Hebrews 10, Col 2:14?

I did say that the Law no longer applies in the middle of Acts right? So of course I believe that is sufficient for us NOW.

I am just telling you, if you were a Jew living post cross and hearing what the risen Christ instructed the 11 THEN, at the end of Matthew, you will not go away with any impression that "the cross ended any laws".

If Peter had your impression, that certain laws were abolished at the cross, he would not have so much difficulty in eating unclean animals at Acts 10, which was years after the cross.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

And did you notice that Jesus never commanded his disciples to keep the Mosaic Law?

Love God and your neighbor is Torah from Leviticus and Deuteronomy...

 

[Guojing]

Circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments and is part of the law of Moses. Paul made this distinction - Circumcision is nothing, uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19

Circumcision goes way back to Abraham, before Moses even existed (Genesis 17:14)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Circumcision goes way back to Abraham, before Moses even existed (Genesis 17:14)

Which doesn’t change that circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I did say that the Law no longer applies in the middle of Acts right? So of course I believe that is sufficient for us NOW.

I am just telling you, if you were a Jew living post cross and hearing what the risen Christ instructed the 11 THEN, at the end of Matthew, you will not go away with any impression that "the cross ended any laws".

If Peter had your impression, that certain laws were abolished at the cross, he would not have so much difficulty in eating unclean animals at Acts 10, which was years after the cross.

According to the New Covenant, there is no Jew or Gentile if one is in Christ, so all the laws applies to everyone if one is grafted into the promises of God’s Israel.

 

[Guojing]

According to the New Covenant, there is no Jew or Gentile if one is in Christ, so all the laws applies to everyone if one is grafted into the promises of God’s Israel.

That is another point you are making here.

But would you agree that, from how he behaved at Acts 10, Peter never thought "certain laws were abolished at the cross"?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That is another point you are making here.

But would you agree that, from how he behaved at Acts 10, Peter never thought "certain laws were abolished at the cross"?

If one thought his vision was literal, but it wasn’t and the vision was explained…

Acts 10: 17 Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate.

Acts 10: 19 While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are seeking you. 20 Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.”

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Acts 10:42 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Acts 10: 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.