Did Christ at the cross end all the laws?

[Freth]

Evidence that God didn't give two laws, and evidence that the law of God is binding, is found in the book of Revelation; the The Revelation of Jesus Christ:

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
​

Commandment keeping:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have [conditional] right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

Commandment breaking defined as consisting of abominations to God and/or sins from the Ten Commandments:

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
​

I don't understand why Christians get hung up on Paul when Jesus spells it out in clear language, directly from God, subsequent to Paul's writings.

 

[expos4ever]

Release from it as a means of salvation and justification

That is not what Paul actually says in Romans 7! He says we no longer serve according to the Law. How do you transform a statement that we no longer serve according to the law into a statement that we are no longer saved according to the Law.

Besides, where do you get the idea that scripture ever taught the Jew was "saved" by the Law. That would be a very odd state of affairs since the Law was exclusive to the Jews - could no Gentile be saved?

 

[expos4ever]

For starters, in Paul's proscription of circumcision (ceremonial law) as necessary for salvation (Galatians 5:2-4).

How does this support your assertion that there were different categories of laws?

 

[Clare73]

That is not what Paul actually says in Romans 7! He says we no longer serve according to the Law. How do you transform a statement that we no longer serve according to the law into a statement that we are no longer saved according to the Law.

We no longer serve under the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:10), we died to the law, to its power to condemn (Romans 7:4), we serve in the new way, under the Spirit, where the requirements of the law are met in us, not by us (Romans 8:4) as promised in the new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34), as we keep in step with the Spirit (Galatians 5:25).

Besides, where do you get the idea that scripture ever taught the Jew was "saved" by the Law.

Probably from the same place Paul got it, when he said, "No one will be declared righteous (saved) in his sight by observing the law." (Romans 3:20)

That would be a very odd state of affairs since the Law was exclusive to the Jews -
could no Gentile be saved?

Gentiles could be saved the same way the Jews were saved, by faith in the promise (Jesus Christ, Genesis 15:5-6).

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

"Did Christ at the Cross end all the laws?"

Can I presume you mean all Jewish laws as found in the Old Testament, Torah?

If so I don't think it is relevant to most of us since most of us are not Jews, never were Jews and do not intend to become Jews. We are what they called gentiles. Why all this debate that doe snot involves us? "All the laws" were for the Jews.

 

[Clare73]

How does this support your assertion that there were different categories of laws?

Ceremonial laws (which kept the Jews separate from the Gentiles) were abolished on the cross (Ephesians 2:15), including circumcision.

The Decalogue was upheld (Romans 3:31) and placed on its right footing, as a means of sanctification, and fulfilled in Christ's law (Romans 13:8-10) of Matthew 22:37-40.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As regenerated Christians the Holy Spirit guilds us in all truth which includes the will of the Father. He most certainly tells those who are under the Mosaic law that it must be followed perfectly with no pause or change. Break one guilty of all, the " bond woman". But there is a better way through the " free woman", circumcision of the heart. We now walk in this Statute. Love. Through love all of the Commandments are fulfilled. This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

Thanks for sharing. I guess I don’t see in scripture that says God’s law is the Jewish law. I know this is a common teaching, but its not one seen in my Bible.

In the New Covenant God makes with the house of Israel and Judah He writes His laws in our hearts and minds. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10. God never made a covenant with the Gentiles, only Israel because in scripture Israel is synonymous with God’s people. I would not want to write myself out of the covenant and the promises. According to Paul, there is no Jew or Gentile if we are in Christ. Galatians 3:28-29 Colossians 3:11 Gentiles are grated in to God’s Israel Romans 11:11-24. Praise God!

God bless!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)

The "written code" is the Torah. We are not supposed to observe the explicitely worded commandments anymore (which includes the 10 commandments). Instead Jesus says in John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

As Paul confirms: "Love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:10).

So instead of obeying the written commandments we draw principles from them to learn how to love God and other people according to God's will.

If you wanted to put the "law of the New Covenant" into words it would be this: "Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and your neighbour as yourself". This includes all of Jesus' commandments (and the 10 commandments, too).

If we are to serve in the new way though the Spirit wouldn’t we be obeying the law that is written in our hearts by God in the New Covenant? Hebrews 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33. The Spirit is given when we obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 2:38, Acts 5:32. Jesus never came to destroy God’s laws, but came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:41 which means make greater not lesser. Jesus often quoted directly from the Ten Commandments and there is no scripture that says the Ten Commandments have been deleted. Instead James quotes directly from the Ten stating if you break one of the commandments you break them all James 2:10-12. Paul tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. John tells us this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 and Jesus quoted directly from the Ten on multiples occasions. Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19. The saints are shown keeping the commandments of God right until the Second Coming of Jesus, although as predicted only a remnant. Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15

I am not sure if the scriptures match your conclusion of God’s law. I don’t know how you can love God with all your heart and soul and worship other gods, or bow to idols, murder, steal or break any of these commandments God wrote with His own finger, placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells, which is also revealed in heaven. Revelation 11:19

God bless!

 

[Freth]

Thanks for sharing. I guess I don’t see in scripture that says God’s law is the Jewish law. I know this is a common teaching, but its not one seen in my Bible.

In the New Covenant God makes with the house of Israel and Judah He writes His laws in our hearts and minds. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10. God never made a covenant with the Gentiles, only Israel because in scripture Israel is synonymous with God’s people. I would not want to write myself out of the covenant and the promises. According to Paul, there is no Jew or Gentile if we are in Christ. Galatians 3:28-29 Colossians 3:11 Gentiles are grated in to God’s Israel Romans 11:11-24. Praise God!

God bless!

And then there are statements like this, which cannot be ignored:

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
​

This is paralleled in first angel's message:

Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
​

Look at what happens if we combine the two together:

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter, the everlasting gospel. Fear God, fear God, worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And keep His commandments, and give glory to Him. For this is the whole duty of man; them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue and people. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil; for the hour of his judgment is come.​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And then there are statements like this, which cannot be ignored:

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
​

This is paralleled in first angel's message:

Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

Excellent point Freth!

Yes and similar to James:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

and Jesus:

Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, (direct quote from Exodus 20:13) and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.

And in Hebrews:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The solution? Obey God on His terms, not ours. The commandments of God are not meant to be burdensome:

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

And Jesus promises us a Helper for those who want to obey so we don’t have to do it alone.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you anotherHelper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you

God bless!

 

[Freth]

Excellent point Freth!

Yes and similar to James:

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

and Jesus:

Matthew 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, (direct quote from Exodus 20:13) and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.

And in Hebrews:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The solution? Obey God on His terms, not ours. The commandments of God are not meant to be burdensome:

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

And Jesus promises us a Helper for those who want to obey so we don’t have to do it alone.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you anotherHelper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you

God bless!

Check out the revision (above). I put the two together into one. Very strong stuff.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Check out the revision (above). I put the two together into one. Very strong stuff.

I agree, very powerful.

I pray for Jesus to come soon! No more tears, no more sin, no more sickness, just being with Jesus and spending eternity exploring everything He has created.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

If we are to serve in the new way though the Spirit wouldn’t we be obeying the law that is written in our hearts by God in the New Covenant? Hebrews 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33. The Spirit is given when we obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 2:38, Acts 5:32. Jesus never came to destroy God’s laws, but came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:41 which means make greater not lesser. Jesus often quoted directly from the Ten Commandments and there is no scripture that says the Ten Commandments have been deleted. Instead James quotes directly from the Ten stating if you break one of the commandments you break them all James 2:10-12. Paul tells us what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. John tells us this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3 and Jesus quoted directly from the Ten on multiples occasions. Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19. The saints are shown keeping the commandments of God right until the Second Coming of Jesus, although as predicted only a remnant. Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15

I am not sure if the scriptures match your conclusion of God’s law. I don’t know how you can love God with all your heart and soul and worship other gods, or bow to idols, murder, steal or break any of these commandments God wrote with His own finger, placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells, which is also revealed in heaven. Revelation 11:19

God bless!

Serving in the Spirit we do obey God's law - but it's a lot more than just the 10 commandments. The Holy Spirit teaches us in a lot more things than what the 10 commandments cover. One thing that is very clear though is this: the "10 commandments" are not separated from "the law" in the Bible. Both Old and New Testament only know "the law" and refer to the Torah as a whole.

You say Jesus quoted the 10 commandments, but let's look at it: Jesus lists these laws (Mt 5:17-43):
- you shall not murder
- you shall not commit adultery
- if you divorce you have to give her a certificate
- do not break your oath
- eye for eye and tooth for tooth
- love your neighbour and hate your enemy

How many of these laws are from the 10 commandments? Two out of six. Jesus definitely didn't refer to the 10 commandments only when he spoke of "the law".

Living under the New Covenant is actually a lot harder than living under the 10 commandments. As I said in my previous post, Jesus gave us a new commandment, which is love. And now we may not only not murder someone but we may not even be angry with someone.

I don’t know how you can love God with all your heart and soul and worship other gods, or bow to idols, murder, steal or break any of these commandments

I would suggest you take the time to read my previous comment again very carefully, because I explained how we cannot break these laws without being under the 10 commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Serving in the Spirit we do obey God's law - but it's a lot more than just the 10 commandments. The Holy Spirit teaches us in a lot more things than what the 10 commandments cover. One thing that is very clear though is this: the "10 commandments" are not separated from "the law" in the Bible. Both Old and New Testament only know "the law" and refer to the Torah as a whole.

You say Jesus quoted the 10 commandments, but let's look at it: Jesus lists these laws (Mt 5:17-43):
- you shall not murder
- you shall not commit adultery
- if you divorce you have to give her a certificate
- do not break your oath
- eye for eye and tooth for tooth
- love your neighbour and hate your enemy

How many of these laws are from the 10 commandments? Two out of six. Jesus definitely didn't refer to the 10 commandments only when he spoke of "the law".

Living under the New Covenant is actually a lot harder than living under the 10 commandments. As I said in my previous post, Jesus gave us a new commandment, which is love. And now we may not only not murder someone but we may not even be angry with someone.



I would suggest you take the time to read my previous comment again very carefully, because I explained how we cannot break these laws without being under the 10 commandments.

Of course there are more laws than the Ten Commandments, but the Ten Commandments are the only law that was both personally written by God’s finger, spoken by God’s voice, placed in the ark of the covenant, in the Most Holy of God’s Temple which is also revealed in Heaven. Revelation 11:19

Jesus quoting from the Ten means the Ten are still intact. The Ten Commandments came in a until of Ten, not nine or eight. Exodus 34:28 and Jesus quoted more than just two commandments. He quoted all the commandments verbatim (6) which deal with how we are to love our neighbor Matthew 19:17-19, plus one of the law of Moses dealing with loving our neighbor. Jesus also quoted directly from the Ten and than said we should break the least of these commandments Matthew 5:19 so I think least means all of them.

Which is why all Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Covenant for everyday Christians living. Love is actually not a new commandment, it was the way God always intended us to obey His commandments shown right in the Ten- showing mercy to thousands, who love Me and keep My commandments Exodus 20:6, which Jesus repeated verbatim. John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

God bless.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I would really like to understand what you're saying.

This part here

It sounds like

There are laws written by God, the ten commandments. And nothing else is written directly by God, as far as we know.

Then there are the laws handwritten by Moses, which is everything else from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

Is that what you're saying? If not, please clarify.

God personally only wrote the Ten Commandments Exodus 31:18, Exodus 34:28. Only the Ten was placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple which is also revealed in heaven. Revelation 11:19

All the other laws God spoke to Moses and Moses wrote by his hand in a book and was placed on the outside of the ark.

Is this what you are asking?

 

[Leaf473]

God personally only wrote the Ten Commandments Exodus 31:18, Exodus 34:28. Only the Ten was placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple which is also revealed in heaven. Revelation 11:19

All the other laws God spoke to Moses and Moses wrote by his hand in a book and was placed on the outside of the ark.

Is this what you are asking?

Yes, that's what I was asking so far.

And then this part:

What ended was only the law of Moses contained in ordinances. Eph 2:15 that was handwritten not God-written by Moses 1 Cor 33:8

It sounds like everything written by Moses ended at the cross.

Again, is that what you're saying? If not, please clarify.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, that's what I was asking so far.

And then this part:

It sounds like everything written by Moses ended at the cross.

Again, is that what you're saying? If not, please clarify.

No, the scriptures says only the law contained in ordinances.

If you go to my op, there are other categories- laws, commandments, statues, ordinances. Scriptures says only the law contained in ordinances ended and goes in detail what those ordinances are. The Levitical sacrificial system, becuase Jesus became our perfect Sacrifice for the forgivness of sins. Hebrews 10, Col 2:14-17 not the Ten Commandments, not the rest of the law of Moses like love thy God with all our heart, or the health laws etc.

 

[Leaf473]

No, the scriptures says only the law contained in ordinances.

If you go to my op, there are other categories- laws, commandments, statues, ordinances. Scriptures says only the law contained in ordinances ended and goes in detail what those ordinances are. The Levitical sacrificial system, becuase Jesus became our perfect Sacrifice for the forgivness of sins. Hebrews 10, Col 2:14-17 not the Ten Commandments, not the rest of the law of Moses like love thy God with all our heart, or the health laws etc.

So... only the Levitical sacrificial system ended at the cross. Everything else from Genesis to Deuteronomy is still in place.

Is that what you're saying? And again, if not, please clarify.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So... only the Levitical sacrificial system ended at the cross. Everything else from Genesis to Deuteronomy is still in place.

Is that what you're saying? And again, if not, please clarify.

The ceremonial laws ended which includes the Levitical sacrificial system with Jesus as our Sacrifice. Circumcision ended, replaced by baptism in the New Covenant.

 

[Leaf473]

The ceremonial laws ended which includes the Levitical sacrificial system with Jesus as our Sacrifice. Circumcision ended, replaced by baptism in the New Covenant.

So... are you saying circumcision ended because it was a handwritten ordinance?