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Has anyone read this and what are your thoughts?
Friends of God - Wikipedia
and contradictory to directions in Scripture regarding doing "deeds" and "good works".
i.e. "Faith without works is dead" (James 2)
I'll have to listen to the whole document to see if I agree with that assessment; a lot of the mystics of those periods were misinterpreted and this was a common accusation levelled against them. When they said something similar to "I no longer need to do these things" I think what they meant was "I simply do them naturally now because my nature has been changed or I no longer need to choose to do them, the choice has been removed"
Unfortunately, if this was true, it did not prevent them from being accused of being heretics (as was Eckhart) and then (sometimes) burned at the stake. Marguerite Porete was of a similar school/theology at the time and it didn't end well.
I'm... not certain that Luther was the staunchest defender of James...
(though he may not have been as against it as he has sometimes been accused of being)
The “Epistle of Straw”: Reflections on Luther and the Epistle of James - The Gospel Coalition
At any rate I haven't listened to the whole Theologica Germanica but I'll keep Philip Schaff's commentary in mind to see if I agree with him, or he's the sort that likes campfires.
Thanks for posting this.
"It resembles the famous work of Thomas a Kempis in exhibiting Christian piety as an humble imitation of the life of Christ on earth, but goes beyond it, almost to the very verge of pantheism, by teaching in the strongest terms the annihilation of self-will and the absorption of the soul in God. Without being polemical, it represents by its intense inwardness a striking contrast to the then prevailing practice of religion as a mechanical and monotonous round of outward acts and observances."
Philip Schaff: History of the Christian Church, Volume VII. Modern Christianity. The German Reformation - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
On face value, Theologica Germanic seems out there in the mystic/monastic/ascetic realm and contradictory to directions in Scripture regarding doing "deeds" and "good works". It appealed to Luther likely because he was superstitious, mystical, and nationalistic. Ultimately for him the Reformation 'movement' of protesting, semper reformanda etc, was more practical and pressing in his time. Popular.
i.e. "Faith without works is dead" (James 2)
BIBLE VERSES ABOUT DOING GOOD DEEDS
I'll have to listen to the whole document to see if I agree with that assessment; a lot of the mystics of those periods were misinterpreted and this was a common accusation levelled against them. When they said something similar to "I no longer need to do these things" I think what they meant was "I simply do them naturally now because my nature has been changed or I no longer need to choose to do them, the choice has been removed"
Unfortunately, if this was true, it did not prevent them from being accused of being heretics (as was Eckhart) and then (sometimes) burned at the stake. Marguerite Porete was of a similar (perhaps pre-cursor) school/theology at the time and it didn't end well.
I'm... not certain that Luther was the staunchest defender of James...
(though he may not have been as against it as he has sometimes been accused of being)
The “Epistle of Straw”: Reflections on Luther and the Epistle of James - The Gospel Coalition
At any rate I haven't listened to the whole Theologica Germanica but I'll keep Philip Schaff's commentary in mind to see if I agree with him, or he's the sort that likes campfires.
When I took a class on Reformation History, this was one of the precursors for the Reformation itself.
Friends of God - Wikipedia
How so?
Annihilism is something that I picked up on too. I am weary therefore. Nevertheless, how do you interpret, "It is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me and the life I live I live by the faith of the Son of God...."?
Theologia Germanica said:All things work together to deepen the sense of the corruptness of the church to lead men onwards from their physical to spiritual wants, to awaken reflection on the judgements of God and to fix their eyes on the indications of the future" (28:00)
[/QUOTE]Maybe someone will correct me but "the annihilation of self-will and the absorption of the soul in God" is not "annihilism" or "annihilationism", but about annihilation/eradication/nullification of "self-will".
Hence the author's dichotomy of "physical" vs "spiritual". The phrasing speaks volumes on context and motivation.
Gal 2 is appropriate to quote since Gal 2:16 offers a clue: "...by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed (episteusamen) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ..."
The verb episteusamen (ἐπιστεύσαμεν) when parsed is aorist active indicative - 1st Person Plural. Which is "active", as opposed to "annihilation of self-will" (inactive). --- But aorist expresses things that happen in general, without asserting a time. "It can describes something that simply is regardless of any time reference (“gnomic”)." (Mounce)
"Used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ: πιστεύω τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ εἶναι Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, Acts 8:37 Rec.; ἐπιστεύθη (was believed on (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39, 1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152))) ἐν κόσμῳ, 1 Timothy 3:16. the phrase πιστεύειν εἰς τόν Ἰησοῦν, εἰς τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ, etc., is very common; properly, to have a faith directed unto, believing or in faith to give oneself up to, Jesus, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f); (Buttmann, 174 (151))):"
Thayers G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
The object of faith/belief being Christ; the completion/manifestation/solidification/realisation of faith/belief; Yeshua being "salvation". He is the end of the "faith" per se, the "omega". Reaching him is the goal the destination of faith. How then can faith possibly be inactive? Perhaps though for a moment only, symbolically/ritually/meditatively/prayerfully in Sabbath "rest". It's both spiritual and physical. Both presently and eternally. Entering into Sabbath rest is metaphorical for entering into Christ's eternal rest. Like a child into a mother's womb, and being "born again" as promised to Nicodemus. Not 9mos and eventual death, but "everlasting to everlasting" (Ps 103:17). Christ being "Everlasting light" (Isa 60:20)
But the Medieval/Reformation/Germanic/Euro concept of God was a superstitious (heathen) concept of token offerings in exchange for mercy. e.g. malnourished peasant farmers, crop failure, polluted German water, low infant mortality, terrified of "the Grim Reaper", Bubonic plague, terrifying gargoyles... God to them was understood/depicted as a cruel almost malignant deity; an angry Zeus/Jupiter/Odin.-- A timely post since this era mirrors our Pandemic Age.
One's spirit is anthropomorphised in Scripture as living and active. The body too, albeit corrupted, dying along with everything else in the world.
On our current state, the Lord said, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (Mt 26:41) Likewise in Gal 5:16, "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
And the future: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev 11:15)
"Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. ... and this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6)
i.e. hope is not found in "separation of physical and spiritual" as but in "new creation", of both body and soul, a restoration of divine order as God originally willed for Adam at Eden. Magnified. Growth. Many people, many fruit. Alignment with God's will. "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
[/QUOTE]Maybe someone will correct me but "the annihilation of self-will and the absorption of the soul in God" is not "annihilism" or "annihilationism", but about annihilation/eradication/nullification of "self-will".
Hence the author's dichotomy of "physical" vs "spiritual". The phrasing speaks volumes on context and motivation.
Gal 2 is appropriate to quote since Gal 2:16 offers a clue: "...by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed (episteusamen) in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ..."
The verb episteusamen (ἐπιστεύσαμεν) when parsed is aorist active indicative - 1st Person Plural. Which is "active", as opposed to "annihilation of self-will" (inactive). --- But aorist expresses things that happen in general, without asserting a time. "It can describes something that simply is regardless of any time reference (“gnomic”)." (Mounce)
"Used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ: πιστεύω τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ εἶναι Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, Acts 8:37 Rec.; ἐπιστεύθη (was believed on (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39, 1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152))) ἐν κόσμῳ, 1 Timothy 3:16. the phrase πιστεύειν εἰς τόν Ἰησοῦν, εἰς τόν υἱόν τοῦ Θεοῦ, etc., is very common; properly, to have a faith directed unto, believing or in faith to give oneself up to, Jesus, etc. (cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f); (Buttmann, 174 (151))):"
Thayers G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
The object of faith/belief being Christ; the completion/manifestation/solidification/realisation of faith/belief; Yeshua being "salvation". He is the end of the "faith" per se, the "omega". Reaching him is the goal the destination of faith. How then can faith possibly be inactive? Perhaps though for a moment only, symbolically/ritually/meditatively/prayerfully in Sabbath "rest". It's both spiritual and physical. Both presently and eternally. Entering into Sabbath rest is metaphorical for entering into Christ's eternal rest. Like a child into a mother's womb, and being "born again" as promised to Nicodemus. Not 9mos and eventual death, but "everlasting to everlasting" (Ps 103:17). Christ being "Everlasting light" (Isa 60:20)
But the Medieval/Reformation/Germanic/Euro concept of God was a superstitious (heathen) concept of token offerings in exchange for mercy. e.g. malnourished peasant farmers, crop failure, polluted German water, low infant mortality, terrified of "the Grim Reaper", Bubonic plague, terrifying gargoyles... God to them was understood/depicted as a cruel almost malignant deity; an angry Zeus/Jupiter/Odin.-- A timely post since this era mirrors our Pandemic Age.
One's spirit is anthropomorphised in Scripture as living and active. The body too, albeit corrupted, dying along with everything else in the world.
On our current state, the Lord said, "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (Mt 26:41) Likewise in Gal 5:16, "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
And the future: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." (Rev 11:15)
"Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. ... and this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6)
i.e. hope is not found in "separation of physical and spiritual" as but in "new creation", of both body and soul, a restoration of divine order as God originally willed for Adam at Eden. Magnified. Growth. Many people, many fruit. Alignment with God's will. "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
I took T. G. as teaching that our being, our "I" ought to be done away with, so that we possess no will whatsoever. If not, if we remain distinct from God as creature from Creator, ...
Theologica Germanica said:For the beholding of the hidden things of God shalt thou forsake since for the things of the flesh and all of the senses can apprehend and all that reason of her own powers can bring forth that all things created an uncreated that reason is able to comprehend and know. And shall take thy stand upon utter abandonment of thyself and of knowing none of the aforesaid things enter into union into him who is an who is above all existence and all knowledge. Now if he did not hold this to be possible at his present time, why did he teach it and enjoin it on us in this present time. But it behooveth you to know that a master has said on this passage of saint dyonisis that it is possible and may happen to a man often that he may be accustom to look into eternity whenever he will. For when a thing is at first very hard for a man and strange and seemingly quite impossible, if he put all his strength and energy into it and persevere therein it will afterward grow quite light and easy which he at first thought quit out of reach…
... then I have no problem speaking about the will (defined as my wants and my desires) being annihilated and absorbed into God's will. That's the essence of faith. So long as I keep something for myself in contradistinction from my movement toward God, even if that something is good, I have lost God.
Luther himself said (I suppose repeating T. G. ) that we should be willing to go to hell if God wants us there. That is radical, true love and faith in the goodness of God. Christ possessed it, in that he took the curse of Adam upon himself.
Father Spyridon said:When he (Christ) says you must take up your cross and follow me he's talking about an inner change... There is a famous painting by Dali of Christ floating in the air, separate from the world. This heretical thinking. The cross must be grounded, based, planted in the earth, based and planted in our lives, for real, on a day to day basis, a living experience in our lives...
Father Spyridon said:The Book of Proverbs says to us "Change the wicked and they will be no more" (1:25)
Father Spyridon said:... but that the old man within us will die and the new man will live (1:43)
Father Spyridon said:... it is no longer I who live but Christ in me (1:49)