It's Sad That So Many Christians Consider Themselves "New Testament" Christians

[trophy33]

It does however tell us that they gathered on the first day of the week:

Yes, but its also not a commandment, just their habit.

Christians are not commanded to keep any day - neither Sabbath, nor Sunday.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, I am saying that when we say New Covenant, we mean the one Jesus established with his disciples during the Last Supper. There seems to be some misunderstanding about it from the SDA side.

Also, I am saying that you have no verse from the New Testament saying that Christians should keep weekly sabbath like the ancient Jews were instructed before Christ.

I don’t think the misunderstanding is on this side. Perhaps you can quote where Jesus tells the disciples they are to teach something different than what Jesus taught or the example that Jesus left for us. I noticed you didn’t provide scripture for any of your claims including that any of the Ten Commandments (which includes the 4th) has been deleted, we don’t see that in any of the scriptures, but we do see Jesus and the disciples teaching and keeping the commandments of God. I am sticking with scripture on this one, but we are entitled to our opinion, I just prefer not to go with opinions over the Word of God. Scripture references: Luke 4:16-22, Acts 18:4, Luke 13:10, Luke 23:56, Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44, Acts 15:21, Acts 17:2, 1 Cor 7:19, John 15:10, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 2:3-5, James 2:10-12, Romans 2:13, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17, Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:17-30, Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20, 1 John 2:4

It’s a lot of scripture one has to ignore to make your statements work. Also we cannot debate the 4th commandment on this forum per the forum rules.

God bless.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It does however tell us that they gathered on the first day of the week:

Acts 20:7
Verse Concepts
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

Source: 15 Bible verses about The First Day Of The Week

They broke bread daily, which does not change any of the commandments of God as noted in scripture.

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

So other than dietary laws and 10 Commandments, which specific laws should I be keeping that are relevant to 21st century urban America?

 

[The Narrow Way]

That was a very thoughtful (and interesting) exposition on this topic. I can see what you're saying and even though at the moment I can't say I'm convinced, you have given me pause to study the Scriptures more deeply on this subject and I will keep in mind your well stated points. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out for me to further ponder over and to pray about.

Be blessed, sister!

Thank you for your post, I've enjoyed our discussion very much

 

[1watchman]

As I said before: "a mind persuaded against its will, is of the same opinion still"; so I will stand on what I have shared, and leave this debate; praying for all of us. --1watchman.

 

[trophy33]

I noticed you didn’t provide scripture for any of your claims including that any of the Ten Commandments (which includes the 4th) has been deleted

Not sure what you mean by deleted. We simply do not live under the old covenant.

Do you really need a verse for that we live under the new covenant, again? You have been given so many verses by so many people in so many threads that I do not see it useful to repeat them over and over. I thought you read what people wrote and remember the verses.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not sure what you mean by deleted. We simply do not live under the old covenant.

What do you think Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10 mean?

Do you really need a verse for this, again? You have been given so many verses by so many people that I do not see it useful to repeat them over and over. I thought you read what people wrote and remember the verses.

True, I have never once said we are under the Old Covenant. All the laws did not end in the New Covenant and now we are free to sin as seen from the scriptures I have posted many times.

 

[trophy33]

True, I have never once said we are under the Old Covenant. All the laws did not end in the New Covenant and now we are free to sin as seen from the scriptures I have posted many times.

New covenant - new rules, new form.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

New covenant - new rules, new form.

What do you think Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:33 means?

What do you think this means?

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

And

1 John 2:5But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

They broke bread daily, which does not change any of the commandments of God as noted in scripture.

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart.

Which is why much of the Church retains the practice of Daily Mass; but when Scripture makes a specific point about something, traditional Christianity has always taken note as specifics make an event specific. Regardless of how often we worship together, it is quite clear that we are "specifically" to do so on the first day of the week; that is Sunday, specifically. Another example of the historic Church following specifics: This past friday the Church historically celebrated the the Incarnation on that date (Feast of the Annunciation); Scripture mentions it, it is specific so the Church observes it.

For traditional Christians, when something is specifically noted; it is wise to treat it as a directive. On the other hand, it seems that our Lord was always in hot water for not observing the sabbath properly.

His rising from the tomb on the first day of the week, is significant and specific, so the Church prioritizes the observation of Easter on the day that same day of the week. There is a historic prayer that mentions that the Lord has consecrated that day for our use by His rising.

So, to keep things on track and on topic, Churches that refused to observe the resurrection on the first day of the week as Scripture directs, may not be OT Christians, but they are stuck somewhere in between; not fully observing what is very clear in Scripture, should be observed.

Sorry if my opinions touch a nerve, but really, is it not good and proper to strive to observe the examples of our Lord, and the Apostles? Groups that chose not to, IMO fall outside of "the Apostolic Church" portrayed in the Scriptures.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Which is why much of the Church retains the practice of Daily Mass; but when Scripture makes a specific point about something, traditional Christianity has always taken note as specifics make an event specific. Regardless of how often we worship together, it is quite clear that we are "specifically" to do so on the first day of the week; that is Sunday, specifically. Another example of the historic Church following specifics: This past friday the Church historically celebrated the the Incarnation on that date (Feast of the Annunciation); Scripture mentions it, it is specific so the Church observes it.

For traditional Christians, when something is specifically noted; it is wise to treat it as a directive. On the other hand, it seems that our Lord was always in hot water for not observing the sabbath properly.

His rising from the tomb on the first day of the week, is significant and specific, so the Church prioritizes the observation of Easter on the day that same day of the week. There is a historic prayer that mentions that the Lord has consecrated that day for our use by His rising.

So, to keep things on track and on topic, Churches that refused to observe the resurrection on the first day of the week as Scripture directs, may not be OT Christians, but they are stuck somewhere in between; not fully observing what is very clear in Scripture, should be observed.

Sorry if my opinions touch a nerve, but really, is it not good and proper to strive to observe the examples of our Lord, and the Apostles? Groups that chose not to, IMO fall outside of "the Apostolic Church" portrayed in the Scriptures.

You did not hit a nerve at all, why would you think that? God gives us all free will and we can choose to keep the commandments of God or not. For me as my personal choice it is something I choose to obey, because I don’t see any scriptures that shows any of the commandments of God are deleted or changed, I noticed you did not provide that in your post either. Jesus did warn us though that we should obey the commandments of God over man’s traditions and when doing so it is worshipping in vain, so that seems like a pretty big warning in my eyes. Matthew 15:3-9

Unfortunately I can not get into any more specifics due to the forum rules so if you wish to discuss further I would invite you to open a new thread in the Sabbath and Law forum to discuss this specifically, so we can really look at the scriptures at this important topic. I am happy to start the new thread if you want.

 

[trophy33]

What do you think Hebrews 8:10 and Jeremiah 31:33 means?

Heb 8 means three things:
a) the new Covenant is superior (Heb 8:6)
b) the new Covenant is different (Heb 8:9)
c) the old Covenant is outdated (Heb 8:13)

And Heb 8:10 specifically means that the New Covenant does not have some written form (set of rules), but is in our hearts.

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

It means what it says - Jesus suffered for us so we should also be willing to suffer for Him.

Why should it mean something else than what it says?

And
1 John 2:5But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Again, it means just what the text/context says - We should love each other as Jesus told us and showed us.

 

[pescador]

So other than dietary laws and 10 Commandments, which specific laws should I be keeping that are relevant to 21st century urban America?

You shouldn't be keeping any of the OT laws if you're a Christian. True Christians have died to the law.

"So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4, NET v2.1

"For through the law I died to the law so that I may live to God." Galatians 2:19

(and the same principle is found elsewhere in Scripture)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Heb 8 means three things:
a) the new Covenant is superior (Heb 8:6)
b) the new Covenant is different (Heb 8:9)
c) the old Covenant is outdated (Heb 8:13)

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you here on a, b c. A covenant is an agreement, that is what changed.

And Heb 8:10 specifically means that the New Covenant does not have some written form (set of rules), but is in our hearts.

God specifically said He writes His laws in our hearts and minds. We obey not because it’s a commandments, we obey because of love. This concept is not new Psalms 40:9, Psalms 37:31, Isaiah 51:7 it was what God always intended, God did not break the old covenant, man did. His laws are still the same- it’s still a sin to break the commandments 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 James 2:10-12, Romans 7:7 even in the new covenant. We obey because we love, this IS love. 1 John 5:3. John 14:15, John 15:10. God’s laws are written in our minds so we remember to do them Romans 2:13, James 1:22, Revelation 22:14.

It means what it says - Jesus suffered for us so we should also be willing to suffer for Him.

Why should it mean something else than what it says?


Again, it means just what the text/context says - We should love each other as Jesus told us and showed us.

Jesus is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Jesus was tempted and overcame just like we can. Jesus kept the commandments of God John 15:10 as our example and came to do the will of His Father John 6:38 and did not come to destroy the laws, but to magnify. Matthew 5:17-30 Isaiah 42:21 and shows us an example taken directly from the Ten Commandments regarding murder. Jesus wants our thoughts and feelings changed from the inside out “law in the heart” so we can change thoughts of hate regarding our neighbor into thoughts of love and compassion. When we change our mindset, it changes our actions so the law, which still stands, will automatically be kept.

 

[trophy33]

A covenant is an agreement

Its a legal bond between parties.

God specifically said He writes His laws in our hearts and minds. We obey not because it’s a commandments, we obey because of love. This concept is not new Psalms 40:9, Psalms 37:31, Isaiah 51:7 it was what God always intended, God did not break the old covenant, man did. His laws are still the same- it’s still a sin to break the commandments 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 James 2:10-12, Romans 7:7 even in the new covenant. We obey because we love, this IS love. 1 John 5:3. John 14:15, John 15:10. God’s laws are written in our minds so we remember to do them Romans 2:13, James 1:22, Revelation 22:14.



Jesus is our example to follow. 1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Jesus was tempted and overcame just like we can. Jesus kept the commandments of God John 15:10 as our example and came to do the will of His Father John 6:38 and did not come to destroy the laws, but to magnify. Matthew 5:17-30 Isaiah 42:21 and shows us an example taken directly from the Ten Commandments regarding murder. Jesus wants our thoughts and feelings changed from the inside out “law in the heart” so we can change thoughts of hate regarding our neighbor into thoughts of love and compassion. When we change our mindset, it changes our actions so the law, which still stands, will automatically be kept.

Sorry, I cannot reply to 20 verses put together from various books and contexts. Do you have one or two you want to talk about in detail and in its context?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Its a legal bond between parties.

Whats does covenant mean?

2a : a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action

Sorry, I cannot reply to 20 verses put together from various books and contexts. Do you have one or two you want to talk about in detail and in its context?

You are welcome to pick one or two scriptures to talk about, but the Bible is one continues book, not 66 separate books, so when God reveals something in one chapter, it carries from chapter to another, instead of starting from scratch at each chapter or even each page. Let me know which scriptures you would like to talk about.

God bless.

 

[1an]

In the Old Testament they worshipped pagan gods and sacrificed their children to them. Solomon and Moses were the worst. The scriptures we should be searching are the Psalms and Prophets that tell of Christ's coming and a new dispensation under the new High Priest, namely Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the world.
.

 

[1an]

Whats does covenant mean?

2a : a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action


You are welcome to pick one or two scriptures to talk about, but the Bible is one continues book, not 66 separate books, so when God reveals something in one chapter, it carries from chapter to another, instead of starting from scratch at each chapter or even each page. Let me know which scriptures you would like to talk about.

God bless.

You are right to say that the Bible is continuous, it shows a wicked people who are given a second chance.
.

 

[Danthemailman]

The term “Christian” is found only in the New Testament.

Acts 11:26 - And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Acts 26:28 - Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.

1 Peter 4:16 - Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Now this does not mean that the Old Testament in general is irrelevant or insignificant, yet the old covenant has been made obsolete by the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13)