It's Sad That So Many Christians Consider Themselves "New Testament" Christians

[HARK!]

The New Testament writers included approximately 250 express Old Testament quotations, and if one includes indirect or partial quotations, the number jumps to more than 1,000.

...and then there is the most quoted book in the Bible, which has been removed from most Bibles:

Enoch is the most quoted, or eluded to, book in the Bible; but it's not in the Bible. Enoch is quoted, or eluded to in the B'rit Chadasha over 100 times.

Psalms is quoted 68 times in the Bible.

The Book of Enoch

 

[Blade]

I understand what your saying but.. "sad" is not the right word. They believe in the lord JESUS Christ who is coming soon.. the song playing now lol. How wonderful awesome PRAISE GOD is that! Truth I don't know "many" that say they are NT Christian's. To keep going.. I don't one

 

[trophy33]

When Jesus said, ~

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:29.
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WHAT were the "Scriptures" He was referring to? Clearly, it had to be the Old Testament as the New Testament was not yet written.

The influence of the Old Testament is seen throughout the New Testament. The New Testament writers included approximately 250 express Old Testament quotations, and if one includes indirect or partial quotations, the number jumps to more than 1,000. It is clear that the writers of the New Testament were concerned with demonstrating the continuity between the Old Testament Scriptures and the faith they proclaimed. They were convinced that in Jesus the Old Testament promises had been fulfilled. Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament - Holman Bible Dictionary -
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Instead of being NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANS, we should just be BIBLE Christians The same God inspired both the Old and the New Testament .

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Even though NT writers quoted the OT a lot, it was mainly to prove that Jesus is Christ and that the Promise has come.

For us today there is really not much use for many things from the OT, because the OT correlates with the Old Covenant and also with lifestyle we can no longer live.

But some moral principles still apply in the New Covenant era, too. And to somebody, details from the history of Israel can be interesting, how people lived in ancient times and what problems they had and what wars they had with whom.

 

[d taylor]

If the scriptures testify to Christ and eternal life is in him, then it seems we should be followers of Christ. The scriptures are a means to an end and Christ is that end. To treat the scriptures as an end in themselves is idolatry. Idolatry is sad.

It is funny that she posted a verse that says exactly that. If The Bible is not pointing a person to The Messiah, then they are missing the main purpose of The Bible.
A person can follow all the laws, repent all sins away, be baptized 1000 times, confess Christ 100's of times. but if they are not trusting in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life then it sure looks like they are doing exactly this: You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

 

[public hermit]

I think you are proving my point. God’s Word answers God’s Word and there are no contradictions in God’s Word, just misunderstandings.

Which is why Jesus always taught through the scriptures and referred us back “it is written”. God bless.

I'm not proving your point, but that's okay. I know from experience that what I am saying is difficult to grasp for those whose trust is in inerrancy. Be that as it may be, God is gracious.

 

[expos4ever]

If the implication here is that the Law of Moses is still in effect, I suggest the scriptural evidence is clear: it is no longer in effect.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not proving your point, but that's okay. I know from experience that what I am saying is difficult to grasp for those whose trust is in inerrancy. Be that as it may be, God is gracious.

Not really, but we can agree to disagree. God bless and take care.

 

[DragonFox91]

I'm glad you brought this up OP! A lot of churches I've attended place all their emphasis on the New Testament. It's not that the OT isn't there, but I find it concerning when it's scarcely mentioned other than the occasional Psalm, the Exodus story, or Creation. ALL of Scripture is to be used b/c all of it points to Christ. It helps to understand the big picture. There's a lot of value God has revealed to Christians in the OT you don't get in the NT. The NT doesn't make sense w/out the OT. Every time I flip thru the OT I find something relevant.

On the flip side, I've attended churches that focus TOO much on the OT. We don't need a year straight of sermons spent on Genesis for example.

If the implication here is that the Law of Moses is still in effect, I suggest the scriptural evidence is clear: it is no longer in effect.

There's more in the OT then the Law of Moses.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

There's more in the OT then the Law of Moses.

Yes, so you will want to pick and choose?

 

[expos4ever]

There's more in the OT then the Law of Moses.

I completely agree. And I agree that many Christians ignore the Old Testament. However, I suspect there are those in this thread that believe the Law is still in force.

 

[The Narrow Way]

Does that mean you think we should also follow Jewish law as emphasized in the 'Old Testament".?

The only thing that has changed is the CEREMONIAL LAWS that all pointed FORWARD to Jesus....when He came, and died on the cross, those laws were done away with, as they served their purpose of pointing everyone to HIM, THE LAMB. All the other laws (God's laws, not the man-made ones) are still intact. The Jews were His special people then, and we are, as Christians, today. The same laws He gave them to keep them healthy and happy, apply to us today. Nothing has changed.

 

[expos4ever]

The only thing that has changed is the CEREMONIAL LAWS that all pointed FORWARD to Jesus.....

On what basis do you conclude this? Paul makes no such qualification when, in Galatians, he declares the Law has been set aside:

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

 

[The Narrow Way]

On what basis do you conclude this? Paul makes no such qualification when, in Galatians, he declares the Law has been set aside:

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

What LAW do you think he's referring to? The 10 Commandments? You think it's OK to MURDER, STEAL, LIE now?

 

[HARK!]

On what basis do you conclude this? Paul makes no such qualification when, in Galatians, he declares the Law has been set aside:

No he doesn't; but even if he did; who is your Master, Paul or Yahshua?

Here is what Yahshua said.:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Here is what Paul said.:

(CLV) 2Ti 3:16
All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,

When Paul wrote this, the only thing that was considered to be scripture was the TaNaK.
What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

Here is what Yahshua said.:

(CLV) Mt 28:19
Going, then, disciple all the nations (Gentiles), baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

(CLV) Mt 28:20
teaching them to be keeping none of some of all, whatever I direct you. And lo! I am with you all the days till the conclusion of the eon! Amen!"

 

[expos4ever]

No he doesn't;

Yes, he does.

Not only in Galatians 3, but here in Romans 7, Paul sets the Law aside, and does not qualify his statement in any way. In particular he says this:

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code

and not this:

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the ceremonial component of law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code

 

[HARK!]

Yes, he does.

Not only in Galatians 3, but here in Romans 7, Paul sets the Law aside, and does not qualify his statement in any way. In particular he says this:

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code

Paul didn't contradict Yahshua. This is a misunderstanding of what Paul was attempting to convey.

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

Paul is not schizophrenic.

(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

Paul is not schizophrenic.

(CLV) Ro 7:22
For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,


Paul is not schizophrenic.

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

Paul is not a liar.


(CLV) Ac 21:24
Taking these along, be purified together with them, and bear their expenses, that they should be shaving their heads, and all will know that what they have been instructed concerning you is nothing, but you also are observing the elements and you yourself are maintaining the law.

Paul is not a deceiver.

(CLV) Ac 24:14
"Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

Paul is not a liar.

(CLV) Php 3:6
in relation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in relation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.

Paul is not a liar.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Paul is not a hypocrite.

 

[expos4ever]

What LAW do you think he's referring to? The 10 Commandments? You think it's OK to MURDER, STEAL, LIE now?

Of course I do not think that it's ok to murder, steal, and lie.

But that is not a reason to think we are under the Law of Moses. Do you need a law to tell you that it is not OK to murder if you have the indwelling Spirit?

Paul is quite clear: the Law of Moses belongs in the past.

 

[expos4ever]

Here is what Yahshua said.:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Ok, let's talk about this.

Jesus was a product of his times and culture and we in the modern west have been careless in understanding the implications. On a surface reading, Luke 16:17 is indeed a challenge to those of us who think the Law of Moses has been retired. Those who hold the opposing view have their own challenges to face, such as Ephesians 2:15 (and Romans 7) which declare the abolition of the Law of Moses. Here is Matthew's version:

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

How can one read this text and think that the Law of Moses has been set aside, given that heaven and earth are still here?

There is a way to faithfully read this text and still claim that Law of Moses was retired 2000 years ago as Paul so forcefully argues (e.g. Eph 2:15): In Hebrew culture, “end of the world” language was commonly used metaphorically to invest commonplace events with theological significance.

This is not mere speculation – we have concrete evidence. Isaiah writes:

10For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light

What was going on? Babylon was being destroyed, never to be rebuilt. There are other examples of use of “end of the world” imagery to describe much more “mundane” events within the present space-time manifold.

So it is possible that Jesus is not referring to the destruction of matter, space, and time as the criteria for the retirement of the Law. But what might He mean here? What is the real event for which “heaven and earth passing away” is an apocalyptic metaphor?

It is Jesus’ death on the Cross where He proclaims “It is accomplished”. Note how this dovetails perfectly with the 5:18 declaration that the Law would remain until all is accomplished. Seeing things this way allows us to honour the established tradition of metaphorical end-of-the-world imagery and to take Paul at his word in his many statements which clearly denote the work of Jesus as the point in time at which Law of Moses was retired.

 

[expos4ever]

(CLV) 2Ti 3:16
All scripture is inspired by God, and is beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, for discipline in righteousness,

This is hardly an argument that the Law of Moses is still in effect. As Paul argues, the Law played a role in salvation, but that role is now over:

Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian

People have to engage in rather complex histrionics to make this text not say what it obviously does: we are no longer under the Law.

The assertion that the Law has been set aside does not invalidate the broader truth that we can learn things about God and righteousness from the Law. The laws of the USA do not apply to me, a Canadian. Does that mean there is nothing valuable I can learn from them? Of course not.

 

[Hvizsgyak]

Did Jesus Abolish the Law of Moses or Not? | Catholic Answers

This may help. Alot of what was said was correct but we are all like two boats passing in the night. Missing each other's points. God bless us all so we will see the lights of the passing ships.