The Sabbath timing in the first century AD

[trophy33]

Hi there,

I disagree. It re-enforces all the other scripture we have about the Sabbath commandment. There is no scripture in all of the bible that states the 4th commandment is deleted from the Ten or the Ten commandments are no longer a requirement for everyday Christian living. There is no scripture stating that the Sabbath is no longer "the holy day of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13 and now God blessed/sanctified/made holy another day in it's place. This is a man-made teaching leading people away from God's Truth and breaking one of God's commandments. Jesus warns us about this exact scenario when we obey mans traditions over God's commandments. Matthew 15:3-9.

Let us stay in Luke 23:56.

Do you agree that its not a proof of anything, before we move forward?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Source? Are they not "the two tablets of covenant law"? That would mean they are written for those under that covenant.

A covenant is an agreement. The agreement was changed, not the laws. Which is why you have God writing His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant. Hebrews 8:10, Jeremiah 31:33 and why we see the Ten Commandments repeated in the New Testament for everyday Christian living. It is still a sin to break the Ten Commandments in the New Covenant as shown in Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7, 1 John 3:4, James 2:10-12, Matthew 19:17,

There are a lot of laws, far more than 10. Are you prepared to say you not only keep but also teach all of them? Jesus tells us he came to fulfill not destroy. Those are very different focuses but they share a common product.

Agreed, there are more laws than the Ten Commandments, but that is certainly part of God's laws. Jesus used the word "fulfilled" to not mean the opposite i.e. destroy or no longer required and shown in context to Matthew 5:19. Fulfill means to fill-full. When I fulfill my wedding covenant it means I am keeping it, not disregarding so I can commit adultery and thats no longer a sin.

You have got that backwards. Hebrews tell us the reverse. But if we are to take it in the order you suggest we are incapable of rest "just as God did". The 4th commandment is not for individuals it's for entire households where even the animals rest. The thing with animals is that they have no authority to take rest and rest needs to be given to them from one with authority. Likewise we cannot take rest ourselves, we need to be given the rest by the one with authority to do so. Baked right in the 4th commandment is a powerful salvation metaphor.

No, I very clearly showed you the meaning verse by verse. All I receive from you in an opinion not backed by the scriptures.

The Sabbath day is indeed on the seventh day.

Great! We agree on something.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let us stay in Luke 23:56.

Do you agree that its not a proof of anything, before we move forward?

I already said I did. It reinforces all other scripture about God's promise. I don't read the bible to look for ways for scripture to contradict scripture.

 

[trophy33]

I already said I did. It reinforces all other scripture about God's promise. I don't read the bible to look for ways for scripture to contradict scripture.

Can you see in the text that they did not even believe in the resurrection?

They knew nothing about the New Covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Can you see in the text that they did not even believe in the resurrection?

Please post scripture...at this time Jesus did not rise. If there was going to be a change in one of God's commandments, Jesus would have said something, we already know there is not a change in the commandments because the heaven and earth is still here Luke 16:17 and Jesus talks about the Sabbath being kept before His Second Coming Matthew 24:20 and the Sabbath continues to be the Lords chosen day to worship for all eternity Isaiah 66:22-23.

 

[trophy33]

Please post scripture...at this time Jesus did not rise.

The Scripture is still the same we are talking about - Luke 23:56.

If they believed in the resurrection, they would not come to the tomb with the intention to embalm his dead body.

 

[Deafsilence]

You obviously did not read my post, otherwise you would have read it is impossible for the Ten commandments including the Sabbath commandment to be nailed to the cross. You might want to reread my post.

The Sabbath is still a commandment after Jesus died, Luke 23:56, Jesus talked that the Sabbath would be kept before His second coming for His end time saints. Matthew 24:20, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 and the saints will be keeping the Sabbath for eternity as the Lords Day of worship thus saith the Lord Isaiah 66:22-23 as promised by God. Exodus 31:16

And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16:17. Heaven and earth are still here, so is God's law.

Ignoring the Truth does not make it go away. We will have to agree to disagree

God bless

You should be keeping the Sabbath day EVERYDAY if your a Christian. Because the Sabbath is Christ. If Christ is in you - then you abide in the Sabbath. This means you no longer do your works, you do His works.

 

[Deafsilence]

From the Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Barnabas (translation Roberts-Donaldson)

CHAPTER XV.--THE FALSE AND THE TRUE SABBATH.

Further, also, it is written concerning the Sabbath in the Decalogue which [the Lord] spoke, face to face, to Moses on Mount Sinai, "And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart." And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them." The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, "Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh day." This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Moreover, He says, "Thou shalt sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God hath sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Scripture is still the same we are talking about - Luke 23:56.

If they believed in the resurrection, they would not come to the tomb with the intention to embalm his dead body.

I don't know what was in their minds and its probably not best to assume something that's not written. God is in charge of His Word, the Sabbath was a commandment before Jesus died and after Jesus died. We have the apostles keeping the Sabbath long after Jesus died following the commission that Jesus gave them to follow exactly what He taught.

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

Paul said what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

God bless.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

From the Epistle of Barnabas
The Epistle of Barnabas (translation Roberts-Donaldson)

CHAPTER XV.--THE FALSE AND THE TRUE SABBATH.

Further, also, it is written concerning the Sabbath in the Decalogue which [the Lord] spoke, face to face, to Moses on Mount Sinai, "And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart." And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them." The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, "Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh day." This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Moreover, He says, "Thou shalt sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God hath sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.

I don't go by man-made writings over God's Word.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You should be keeping the Sabbath day EVERYDAY if your a Christian. Because the Sabbath is Christ. If Christ is in you - then you abide in the Sabbath. This means you no longer do your works, you do His works.

God said we are to do "all thy work in six day" Exodus 20:9 the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. Exodus 20:10

We should worship God everyday (which is not the Sabbath) but we are still commanded to keep the seventh day Holy and full 24 hour period of Holy communion with our Creator and Savior, not speaking our words, but the Words of Christ, not doing our ways, but the ways of Christ Isaiah 58:13 and we are blessed when we obey Isaiah 58:14

I always think its best to obey the clear written instructions of God rather than adding our own ideas to God's Word, but we do have free will. God bless and take care.

 

[trophy33]

I don't know what was in their minds and its probably not best to assume something that's not written. God is in charge of His Word, the Sabbath was a commandment before Jesus died and after Jesus died. We have the apostles keeping the Sabbath long after Jesus died following the commission that Jesus gave them to follow exactly what He taught.

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

Paul said what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

God bless.

Again, let us stay in Luke 23:56 for now.

They were buying spices and other things for embalming his body and went to the tomb to do that. Then they have found out He was resurrected.

Do you agree they did not understand the things that were to come?

 

[Deafsilence]

I don't go by man-made writings over God's Word.

You do realize that the oldest known BIBLE (a compilation of the Christian Writings) included that writing don't you? See Codex Sinaiticus.

.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Again, let us stay in Luke 23:56 for now.

They were buying spices and other things for embalming his body and went to the tomb to do that. Then they have found out He was resurrected.

Do you agree they did not understand the things that were to come?

I already answered that, we do not know what was in their minds at that time and its not stated. They were obeying the commandments after Jesus died. If there was new instructions they would have known about it. If Jesus was going to change one of the commandments of God, Jesus would have stated so. Please quote the scripture where Jesus says you no longer have to obey one of the commandments of God. God wrote His commandments with His own finger, so only God can delete one of them. So if they were deleted, please post where Jesus says so.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You do realize that the oldest known BIBLE (a compilation of the Christian Writings) included that writing don't you? See Codex Sinaiticus.

.

It's not in the Holy Bible, like I stated I only go by God's written Word. We are told to not change one Word Proverbs 30:5-6 and Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Scripture is the true Word of God and I choose to stay in scripture so I am not deceived. You have free will.

 

[trophy33]

I already answered that, we do not know what was in their minds at that time and its not stated. They were obeying the commandments after Jesus died. If there was new instructions they would have known about it. If Jesus was going to change one of the commandments of God, Jesus would have stated so. Please quote the scripture where Jesus says you no longer have to obey one of the commandments of God. God wrote His commandments with His own finger, so only God can delete one of them. So if they were deleted, please post where Jesus says so.

If they did not understand even the resurrection yet, why do you post this verse as a proof that the Sabbath must be kept in the New Covenant?

These women were obviously not knowing the future of Christian theology yet.

 

[Deafsilence]

God said we are to do "all thy work in six day" Exodus 20:9 the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. Exodus 20:10

We should worship God everyday (which is not the Sabbath) but we are still commanded to keep the seventh day Holy and full 24 hour period of Holy communion with our Creator and Savior, not speaking our words, but the Words of Christ, not doing our ways, but the ways of Christ Isaiah 58:13 and we are blessed when we obey Isaiah 58:14

I always think its best to obey the clear written instructions of God rather than adding our own ideas to God's Word, but we do have free will. God bless and take care.

The 7th day to you then is the 7th day of the week defined by when the SUN dawns every 7 days as it rises in the east over the sphere of the Earth. Let me point out that the Sun and the Earth are not Spiritual entities. But we are to worship God in Spirit. God Sabbath is not dependent on the existence of non-spiritual entities. Remember the Lord says:

Mat_24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

You see if that if you believe the Sabbath is to be observed every 7th day of an earthly week, then your Sabbath is not enduring if the Earth can pass away because then that means no more way to determine when the day is for the 7th day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

If they did not understand even the resurrection yet, why do you post this verse as a proof that the Sabbath must be kept in the New Covenant?

These women were obviously not knowing the future of Christian theology yet.

One doesn't delete the other and I truth that God is in change of the Holy scriptures. You still didn't answer my question. Where does jesus talk about the Sabbath commandment being deleted? Surely, if there was such a change like this it would be there in scripture. God blessed only the seventh day Sabbath, what God blessed man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20. So where does Jesus tell us we do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment?

 

[trophy33]

One doesn't delete the other and I truth that God is in change of the Holy scriptures. You still didn't answer my question. Where does jesus talk about the Sabbath commandment being deleted? Surely, if there was such a change like this it would be there in scripture. God blessed only the seventh day Sabbath, what God blessed man cannot reverse Numbers 23:20. So where does Jesus tell us we do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment?

Again, stop jumping from place to place and from topic to topic and let us keep the discussion about the verse in question.

The women were obviously not knowing much, so why is their habit to be our example?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The 7th day to you then is the 7th day of the week defined by when the SUN dawns every 7 days as it rises in the east over the sphere of the Earth. Let me point out that the Sun and the Earth are not Spiritual entities. But we are to worship God in Spirit. God Sabbath is not dependent on the existence of non-spiritual entities. Remember the Lord says:

Mat_24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

You see if that if you believe the Sabbath is to be observed every 7th day of an earthly week, then your Sabbath is not enduring if the Earth can pass away because then that means no more way to determine when the day is for the 7th day.

I appreciate your opinion, but I will stick with scripture, and the only scripture you posted disagrees with your statements.