• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How a Giant Space Habitat could be built incrementally and accumulate from village to nation.

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,632
2,401
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟195,051.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Mars: I've always been a fan of Mars because I think I could more easily imagine how such a thing could grow from a village of 500 to a town of 10,000 to a city of millions to a planet of billions. That is, much more immediate benefits. People living there and having lives, but growing and accumulating in economy, culture, and infrastructure.

My misconception: The O'Neil cylinder - a huge steel can 32km long and 8km wide spun up so people can live with spin-grav on the inside, always seemed the opposite to me. I thought it had to be built and thoroughly completed before anyone could move in. But it's like building the whole of New York City before the first person moves in. Also, think about the financing! It's like building thousands of air-craft carriers in one go, on a MASSIVE mortgage, before you get your first paying customer! I imagined a tin can with everyone living in the inside spun up wall as the 'ground'. We'll call this the Centre. The Centre is sealed off from the radiation and vacuum of space - and the whole region is filled with air and gardens and even ecosystems and rivers and shallow lakes. If this perfectly climate controlled interior is where people live, how on earth do you built it in bits? It has to be delivered in one go.

The tin can myth. I had been influenced by retro-futurist art that mostly emphasised living inside the finished Centre. Like it was just a giant tin-can. Viewed like that, we can forget how vast and thick the walls of this habitat could be. But the walls themselves are probably better thought of as giant spinning space-stations in their own right. They would be steel decks many stories tall (or thick?), more like air-craft carriers than the wall of a tin can.

Construction zones are dangerous. Imagine the safety implications of living in a construction zone in zero gravity? This is why I thought we'd have a city of a million on Mars well before a full O'Neill Cylinder was built. A city on a planet has gravity. It keeps stuff in place. Drop a spanner? It's there. On the ground. Crash a truck? Poor building falls down. But that building didn't explode into some kind of Kessler Syndrome if you're building an O'Neill cylinder around a planet. Which is why, come to think of it, we should only build them around asteroids with low enough gravity to not cascade into a disaster like that. Let's not create a snowballing cascading chain-reaction of shards of metal travelling at 9km per second to shred our habitat and people to death! My point: living near a construction zone is dangerous enough, but living near one in zero gravity could be really interesting. I honestly could not visualise how to do this incrementally.

Tube-rings are the answer. The following image is where it all clicked for me. It's less art, and more a construction manual. I finally get it. Tubes. Added together. Accumulating. Growing an economy with an attractive lifestyle as you go, but with accumulating benefits for all as you do grow. Build it like this, and each tube is a viable space-station in its own right. The whole thing accumulates. The village lives in the 'walls' of what will become an O'Neill Cylinder - and as we add more tubes it becomes a town, city, and finally a full nation.


Accumulating rings

What would it feel like to live there? Let's orientate ourselves to this thing. It's spinning around, so let's call the outside steel deck pulling your feet towards it 'Down'. Going in towards the Centre is going 'Up' to the top floor. You live inside these tube-rings - each of them several stories tall.

Outside is covered in steel decking and meters of asteroid dirt 'glued' to the surface probably with just frozen water. This protects against cosmic radiation, solar radiation, and even micrometeorite impacts. Drones could fly over or camera towers could stick out that scan around, monitoring which areas might need some more dirt to be glued to the ring. So that's outside, under your feet. It also protects you from any loose spanner or tug boat that might go off course and crash.

The Rings are like living inside an aircraft carrier custom build for civilian comfort. These are attractive enough places to live in their own right. There might be big malls or parks in the tube rings themselves. After all, we're talking about building the first O'Neil cylinders here. We're imagining a few decades from now, well before the solar system economy is huge enough to have a factory assembly building these behemoths for more custom-built worlds for the human race to expand into.

So in these early days, the ring habitats have got to be functional AND fun, while the next stage of rings are built.

Stages: Let's say they build new sections 4 rings wide - somewhere safe away from the main habitat. When completed, they ever so gently tug-boat it in and dock with the main rings. But when do they start to fill the Centre - so mums and dads can take their kids up to enjoy the vast parks there? Would it be every time a new mile of rings had been added? All they have to do is put the steel decking over the ends and then you can terraform the Centre. If you're lucky enough to live in the main habitat, you just catch a lift 'Up' to enjoy them. They would probably feel like vast rooftop gardens - except without a view of the city below. If you're living in a new ring on the outside of the Centre and hasn't been sealed in yet, don't worry. You catch a train to your neighbour's ring and go 'Up' to enjoy the Centre. And as each new terraformed Centre was finished, would they leave the steel inner walls in place as a safety measure until the whole thing was finished? After all, it's still a construction zone. Then when finished, they start dismantling the Central Walls - creating the one huge Central ecology we've all dreamed about for so long.

TBM: Or some imagine a continuous spiral building process like a Tunnel Boring Machine, continually spiralling out. The other side of the O'Neil Cylinder has a big dock for space tugs to unload asteroid dirt. A conveyor belt chugs this stuff down to the smelting factory and forge. Finished components and steel plates are trained across the rings to the construction site - and fed into the ring building machine. This avoids having people constructing in zero g, and can run more intuitive process and factories like we do here on earth.

So now I'm open to both Mars and Belters both having a viable race to the first city of a million people. And it's exciting to not have a clue who will win.

For more try these





 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Shemjaza

Petros2015

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2016
5,205
4,426
53
undisclosed Bunker
✟318,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
So now I'm open to both Mars and Belters both having a viable race to the first city of a million people. And it's exciting to not have a clue who will win.

What if we just did it in a VR and just pretended we did it for real?
It's probably cheaper and you could probably actually do it.
 
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
42,801
13,600
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟869,379.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Man has not been able to find a way for man to rule over other men
here on earth. They would just take our problems up there with them.

At least they wouldn't have to put up with global warming/climate change anymore. Just have to hope their atmosphere doesn't escape.
 
Upvote 0

Shemjaza

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2006
6,469
4,008
47
✟1,116,864.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
Man has not been able to find a way for man to rule over other men
here on earth. They would just take our problems up there with them.
True, but we'd take our successes up there as well.

Humans are flawed, but also wonderful.
 
Upvote 0

Shemjaza

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2006
6,469
4,008
47
✟1,116,864.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
At least they wouldn't have to put up with global warming/climate change anymore. Just have to hope their atmosphere doesn't escape.
They'd be pretty dependent on resupply from the surface of the Earth... I don't think climate crisis inspired anarchy would be conducive to regular space launches.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Man has not been able to find a way for man to rule over other men
here on earth. They would just take our problems up there with them.
You either allow men to open the outer doors or do it with artificial intelligence. I don't like either option and a mistake is a pretty serious thing in space.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,632
2,401
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟195,051.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
They'd be pretty dependent on resupply from the surface of the Earth... I don't think climate crisis inspired anarchy would be conducive to regular space launches.
In a future that actually had the economy to start building O'Neill Cylinders - we would probably be mining super-metallic asteroids like Psyche. This one asteroid could supply the human race with many hundreds of thousands of times the metal we have mined so far. There's also gold in them thar hills! Gold and platinum and rare earths that can help in the journey to wean us off fossil fuels. They might fire out a few dozen Starships to Psyche every year when we swing past it on the fast inner lane, but don't forget that many gifts would also be raining down from the sky as we zoomed past.
 
Upvote 0

Shemjaza

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2006
6,469
4,008
47
✟1,116,864.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
In a future that actually had the economy to start building O'Neill Cylinders - we would probably be mining super-metallic asteroids like Psyche. This one asteroid could supply the human race with many hundreds of thousands of times the metal we have mined so far. There's also gold in them thar hills! Gold and platinum and rare earths that can help in the journey to wean us off fossil fuels. They might fire out a few dozen Starships to Psyche every year when we swing past it on the fast inner lane, but don't forget that many gifts would also be raining down from the sky as we zoomed past.
The asteroids are full of gold, platinum and even more valuable resources... but they are very low on food, soil, animals and other products of Earth that humans need to live.

As rich as the new lords of space would be, they'd be even more dependent on a stable Earth than the ancient rulers of our planet.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,632
2,401
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟195,051.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The asteroids are full of gold, platinum and even more valuable resources... but they are very low on food, soil, animals and other products of Earth that humans need to live.

As rich as the new lords of space would be, they'd be even more dependent on a stable Earth than the ancient rulers of our planet.
Sure the original fleets of Starships going out to mine these rocks would be dependent on dried foods from back home. But there's CHON in those asteroids - Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. That can be mined and with enough solar power or even fusion if we have it by then, they'll be able to grow all the food they need. In dirt, that they increasingly make themselves. And these crops will have the perfect, tailor made climate, water, etc and be vastly more productive than anything out on a farm here on earth.

THEN there's futuristic stuff like this - which we should get an answer on in a few years.

Have you heard of Ferming? Think of it as electric food that bypasses photosynthesis. Electricity splits water and feeds hydrogen to bacteria - with a few fertilisers. Here's George Monbiot eating a pancake made from the stuff. Lab-grown food is about to destroy farming – and save the planet | George Monbiot They claim it will scale up to grow protein cheaper than soybeans by 2025, and that it will cook all the proteins and fats and carbs we need, and even arrive in different flavours. They want to cook up an alternative kind of fish-finger with omega-3's, or something like a chicken nugget. It could replace livestock and wheat and corn farms. All that's required are much smaller gardens for fruit and veg and herbs and spices for flavour and texture woven into this factory stuff. It could be the biggest jump in human food since we invented farming 10,000 years ago! Solar Foods - Wikipedia
The Chinese are working on another route - a chemical way to cook up sugary starches used for both food and cardboard etc. In keeping with the "Ferming" above, I call this one "Starching".
They sound like some gifts from Science Fiction. Worth keeping an eye on!

Here's a video of Ferming products.

If it can be mass produced in space and turned into yummy meat-pattie alternatives, or even just all the high protein pasta they need, imagine what it could do for world hunger here on earth?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shemjaza
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The asteroids are full of gold, platinum and even more valuable resources... but they are very low on food, soil, animals and other products of Earth that humans need to live.

As rich as the new lords of space would be, they'd be even more dependent on a stable Earth than the ancient rulers of our planet.

Most long term plans include growing plants in space.

Few dogs or cats yet.


iss046e001336.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Shemjaza
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

On August Recess
Mar 11, 2017
21,769
16,416
55
USA
✟413,093.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The Chinese are working on another route - a chemical way to cook up sugary starches used for both food and cardboard etc.

Food *and* cardboard. Now you have me sold!
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,231
10,127
✟283,969.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Man has not been able to find a way for man to rule over other men
here on earth. They would just take our problems up there with them.
So, you regret that your ancestors decided to move to North America, bringing their problems with them. We should have just stayed East Africa.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,231
10,127
✟283,969.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Common courtesy would have led me to expect that you would address my post, rather than indulge in sophomore philosophy. This is a discusion forum, not a blog. Go in peace.
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
2,004
861
Pacific north west
✟568,853.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Common courtesy would have led me to expect that you would address my post, rather than indulge in sophomore philosophy. This is a discusion forum, not a blog. Go in peace.

Sorry not sure what you mean by "sophomore philosophy".
My last post was [a bible verse] that shows the state of mans
heart in the O.P.. No matter where he lives it is deceitful.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,231
10,127
✟283,969.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Sorry not sure what you mean by "sophomore philosophy".
My last post was [a bible verse] that shows the state of mans
heart in the O.P.. No matter where he lives it is deceitful.
I mean that throwing in Bible quotes that fail to address either the OP, or the member you are replying to, comes across as amateurish and disrespectful. This is the Science section of the forum. Bible quotes may not be out of place here, but I suggest (urge) that they should be accompanied by at least a nod to the science and an explanation of how you feel they relate.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I mean that throwing in Bible quotes that fail to address either the OP, or the member you are replying to, comes across as amateurish and disrespectful.

No. It didn't.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,281
8,501
Milwaukee
✟411,038.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0