Messed Up People and The Religious

[Christsfreeservant]

There is a popular meme on Facebook that says, “I’d rather attend church with messed up people who love God, than religious people who dislike messed up people.”

The Messed Up

So, what is this saying? And what do the Scriptures say about this? First of all, let’s look at what the phrase “messed up” means:

Mess – chaos, confusion, disorder, disarray, disaster, trouble
Messed up – failed, ruined, abortive, futile, miss the mark (sin)

So, if you quote this, what you are saying is that you would rather attend church (meaning the fleshly and worldly gatherings of the institutional church, not the body of Christ) with people who are failed, ruined, abortive, who have missed the mark, i.e. who are still living in sin, and who are not walking in holiness and righteousness according to the Spirit but who are still walking (in conduct, in practice) according to the flesh.

And so you are also stating that these who are messed up, i.e. who are still living in sin, according to the flesh, who are living failed and ruined lives, are those who love God. And we’ll discuss that in a few minutes. But then you are saying that you would rather be in “church” with people who are still living in sin than you would be with people who are religious.

The Religious and Love for God

So, let’s define “religious.”

Religious – spiritual, sacred, devout, moral, virtuous, reverent, holy, godly, faithful, loyal, reliable, professers of faith in Jesus Christ, worshipers of God, pure, undefiled, unspotted from the world, merciful, loving

Okay, then let’s go back to the part about “who love God.” So, what does the Bible teach about love for God? It says that if we love God that we will obey his commandments. And love means to prefer what God prefers, which is what is holy, righteous, morally pure, upright, faithful, and honest, etc. And it means to obey his choices in his power. And if we do not obey him, we do not love him, and we do not know him, and we don’t have eternal life with him. So, the “messed up” do not love God.

[Jn 8:51; Jn 14:15-24; Jn 15:10; Rom 6:16; Heb 5:9; 1 Pet 1:2; Jas 1:21-25; 1 Jn 2:3-6, 15; 1 Jn 3:4-10, 18, 24; 1 Jn 4:19-20; 1 Jn 5:2-3; 2 Jn 1:6]

The Religious and the Disliked

Now, let’s look at the word “dislike.”

Dislike – hate, loathing, displeasure, detest, disapprove, displeased

Okay, now I want to go back and look at “religious” along with “dislike,” for I think this can go several different ways. You can be falsely religious, i.e. you can be devout, dedicated, and loyal to the wrong things or to a false god. And that can be loyalty and devotion to any man-made religion, which includes not just legalists who follow a set of man-made rules and who look down on anyone who doesn’t follow their rules, but it includes followers of the cheap grace gospel whose religion tells them that they don’t have to repent of their sins or obey the Lord or submit to his Lordship.

And they are looking down on the religious who are following the Lord with wholehearted devotion, which is exactly what this meme is depicting. So, the “messed up” are “disliking” those they deem to be “religious,” which often is not the true legalists, but it is those who are following the Lord in purity of devotion to him and who are walking in his ways and in his truth and who are exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness and who are calling people to repentance and obedience and to make Jesus their master.

But the truly religious, I mean those who are truly following Jesus with their lives don’t “dislike” the “messed up.” They love them, and they weep over them, and they grieve because they are “messed up,” and so they speak the truth in love to them, and they expose Satan’s lies to them, and they share with them the truth of the gospel because they love them, and because they want them to be free from their chains and from their addiction to sin, and they want to see them walk in victory over darkness and in holiness and in righteousness and to have true salvation from sin and eternal life with God.

The Church

And then let’s look at the definition of “church.” The word in the Greek is “ekklēsía,” which means: “People called out from the world and to God.” “The universal (total) body of Christ (of believers in Christ) whom God calls out from the world and into his eternal kingdom.” “Belonging to the Lord.” (source: Strong's Greek: 1577. ἐκκλησία (ekklésia) -- an assembly, a (religious) congregation).

This is also what it means to be holy or to be saints. It means to be unlike (different) from the world because we are being made into the likeness of Christ. We are called out from the world and unto God. And if we are unlike the world, and if we are called out from the world, then we shouldn’t be defined as the “messed up,” but we should be defined as the “religious” who are holy, righteous, godly, morally pure, and unspotted from the world.

So, the church is not a building or a church denomination or an organization or a corporation or a business which is being marketed to the world. The church is the called out of God, who are living lives which are separate from the world because they are being conformed into the likeness of Christ. And that church can meet any day of the week at any hour in any location.

Summary of the “Messed up” Meme

So, back to the meme itself. If we now read the meme in light of what we just learned here we can’t help but see the fallacy in the whole thing. For, “church” is the body of Christ of people who are holy and who are called out of the world and unto God, to live godly and righteous lives. They are not the “messed up,” although they are certainly not perfect. But if they are living in spiritual adultery against the Lord, they are “messed up.” But the church, as a whole, should not be “messed up.”

The “messed up” are those who are living in sin, in disobedience to the Lord, who are failing to keep God’s commandments, and so they don’t love God. And the Scriptures teach that if this is how we live, in practice, that we don’t know God and that we will not inherit eternal life with God. They do show us, though, that it is possible for Christians to get far away from God and to need to be brought back to God via repentance, but if they do not repent, then they will not inherit eternal life with God.

And lastly, the truly religious are those who are walking in faithful obedience to the Lord, who are doing what he commands, and who are walking in holiness, righteousness, moral purity, honesty, and faithfulness, etc. And if this is where they are, they don’t “dislike” the “messed up,” but they love them and they are weeping over them and they are praying for their salvation and/or for them to return to the Lord. And so they are speaking the truth in love to them in hopes they will repent and obey the Lord.

[Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Eph 4:17-24; 1 Pet 2:24; 1 Co 6:9-10, 19-20; 2 Co 5:10, 15; Tit 2:11-14; Jas 1:22-25; Rom 12:1-2; Eph 2:8-10; Gal 5:16-21; Eph 5:3-6; Gal 6:7-8; Rom 2:6-8; Matt 7:21-23; Heb 10:26-27; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10]

How Can I Keep From Singing

By Eithne Ni Bhraonain / Nicky Ryan / Roma Ryan

My life goes on in endless song
Above earth’s lamentation,
I catch the sweet, though far-off hymn
That hails a new creation.

Through all the tumult and the strife
I hear the music ringing,
It finds an echo in my soul.
How can I keep from singing?

What though my joys and comfort die?
The Lord my Savior liveth.
What though the darkness gather round?
Songs in the night He giveth.

No storm can shake my inmost calm,
While to that refuge clinging.
Since Christ is Lord of heaven and earth,
How can I keep from singing?

Caution: This link may contain ads

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There is a popular meme on Facebook that says, “I’d rather attend church with messed up people who love God, than religious people who dislike messed up people.”

The Messed Up

So, what is this saying? And what do the Scriptures say about this? First of all, let’s look at what the phrase “messed up” means:

Mess – chaos, confusion, disorder, disarray, disaster, trouble
Messed up – failed, ruined, abortive, futile, miss the mark (sin)

So, if you quote this, what you are saying is that you would rather attend church (meaning the fleshly and worldly gatherings of the institutional church, not the body of Christ) with people who are failed, ruined, abortive, who have missed the mark, i.e. who are still living in sin, and who are not walking in holiness and righteousness according to the Spirit but who are still walking (in conduct, in practice) according to the flesh.

And so you are also stating that these who are messed up, i.e. who are still living in sin, according to the flesh, who are living failed and ruined lives, are those who love God. And we’ll discuss that in a few minutes. But then you are saying that you would rather be in “church” with people who are still living in sin than you would be with people who are religious.

The Religious and Love for God

So, let’s define “religious.”

Religious – spiritual, sacred, devout, moral, virtuous, reverent, holy, godly, faithful, loyal, reliable, professers of faith in Jesus Christ, worshipers of God, pure, undefiled, unspotted from the world, merciful, loving

Okay, then let’s go back to the part about “who love God.” So, what does the Bible teach about love for God? It says that if we love God that we will obey his commandments. And love means to prefer what God prefers, which is what is holy, righteous, morally pure, upright, faithful, and honest, etc. And it means to obey his choices in his power. And if we do not obey him, we do not love him, and we do not know him, and we don’t have eternal life with him. So, the “messed up” do not love God.

[Jn 8:51; Jn 14:15-24; Jn 15:10; Rom 6:16; Heb 5:9; 1 Pet 1:2; Jas 1:21-25; 1 Jn 2:3-6, 15; 1 Jn 3:4-10, 18, 24; 1 Jn 4:19-20; 1 Jn 5:2-3; 2 Jn 1:6]

The Religious and the Disliked

Now, let’s look at the word “dislike.”

Dislike – hate, loathing, displeasure, detest, disapprove, displeased

Okay, now I want to go back and look at “religious” along with “dislike,” for I think this can go several different ways. You can be falsely religious, i.e. you can be devout, dedicated, and loyal to the wrong things or to a false god. And that can be loyalty and devotion to any man-made religion, which includes not just legalists who follow a set of man-made rules and who look down on anyone who doesn’t follow their rules, but it includes followers of the cheap grace gospel whose religion tells them that they don’t have to repent of their sins or obey the Lord or submit to his Lordship.

And they are looking down on the religious who are following the Lord with wholehearted devotion, which is exactly what this meme is depicting. So, the “messed up” are “disliking” those they deem to be “religious,” which often is not the true legalists, but it is those who are following the Lord in purity of devotion to him and who are walking in his ways and in his truth and who are exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness and who are calling people to repentance and obedience and to make Jesus their master.

But the truly religious, I mean those who are truly following Jesus with their lives don’t “dislike” the “messed up.” They love them, and they weep over them, and they grieve because they are “messed up,” and so they speak the truth in love to them, and they expose Satan’s lies to them, and they share with them the truth of the gospel because they love them, and because they want them to be free from their chains and from their addiction to sin, and they want to see them walk in victory over darkness and in holiness and in righteousness and to have true salvation from sin and eternal life with God.

The Church

And then let’s look at the definition of “church.” The word in the Greek is “ekklēsía,” which means: “People called out from the world and to God.” “The universal (total) body of Christ (of believers in Christ) whom God calls out from the world and into his eternal kingdom.” “Belonging to the Lord.” (source: Strong's Greek: 1577. ἐκκλησία (ekklésia) -- an assembly, a (religious) congregation).

This is also what it means to be holy or to be saints. It means to be unlike (different) from the world because we are being made into the likeness of Christ. We are called out from the world and unto God. And if we are unlike the world, and if we are called out from the world, then we shouldn’t be defined as the “messed up,” but we should be defined as the “religious” who are holy, righteous, godly, morally pure, and unspotted from the world.

So, the church is not a building or a church denomination or an organization or a corporation or a business which is being marketed to the world. The church is the called out of God, who are living lives which are separate from the world because they are being conformed into the likeness of Christ. And that church can meet any day of the week at any hour in any location.

Summary of the “Messed up” Meme

So, back to the meme itself. If we now read the meme in light of what we just learned here we can’t help but see the fallacy in the whole thing. For, “church” is the body of Christ of people who are holy and who are called out of the world and unto God, to live godly and righteous lives. They are not the “messed up,” although they are certainly not perfect. But if they are living in spiritual adultery against the Lord, they are “messed up.” But the church, as a whole, should not be “messed up.”

The “messed up” are those who are living in sin, in disobedience to the Lord, who are failing to keep God’s commandments, and so they don’t love God. And the Scriptures teach that if this is how we live, in practice, that we don’t know God and that we will not inherit eternal life with God. They do show us, though, that it is possible for Christians to get far away from God and to need to be brought back to God via repentance, but if they do not repent, then they will not inherit eternal life with God.

And lastly, the truly religious are those who are walking in faithful obedience to the Lord, who are doing what he commands, and who are walking in holiness, righteousness, moral purity, honesty, and faithfulness, etc. And if this is where they are, they don’t “dislike” the “messed up,” but they love them and they are weeping over them and they are praying for their salvation and/or for them to return to the Lord. And so they are speaking the truth in love to them in hopes they will repent and obey the Lord.

[Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Eph 4:17-24; 1 Pet 2:24; 1 Co 6:9-10, 19-20; 2 Co 5:10, 15; Tit 2:11-14; Jas 1:22-25; Rom 12:1-2; Eph 2:8-10; Gal 5:16-21; Eph 5:3-6; Gal 6:7-8; Rom 2:6-8; Matt 7:21-23; Heb 10:26-27; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10]

How Can I Keep From Singing

By Eithne Ni Bhraonain / Nicky Ryan / Roma Ryan

My life goes on in endless song
Above earth’s lamentation,
I catch the sweet, though far-off hymn
That hails a new creation.

Through all the tumult and the strife
I hear the music ringing,
It finds an echo in my soul.
How can I keep from singing?

What though my joys and comfort die?
The Lord my Savior liveth.
What though the darkness gather round?
Songs in the night He giveth.

No storm can shake my inmost calm,
While to that refuge clinging.
Since Christ is Lord of heaven and earth,
How can I keep from singing?

Good post and music. I listen to his and other who do similar.

..............

Sorry I had to post a few more

God bless.

 

[bèlla]

I’ve heard this before and it never rung true. It honestly felt defeatist. As if being a wreck is s badge of honor. It’s also an excuse for inaction and usually accompanied with ‘real’ and ‘true’ monikers.

The Lord doesn’t leave us as-is. He gets into the nooks and crannies that enable us to be more like Him and see life from His perspective.

No one gets it right perfectly. But an earnest want to live as He says is necessary. He steers us aright and removes the blinders. We begin to see beyond the obvious.

The closer we grow to Him the more we’ll recognize the difference between what He said and what occurs in the church. We won’t be misled by adornment or empty words. We’ll know the truth and it holds us to the path we’re called to walk.

It’s a wondrous thing when His spirit enlightens us. God bless.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

I’ve heard this before and it never rung true. It honestly felt defeatist. As if being a wreck is s badge of honor. It’s also an excuse for inaction and usually accompanied with ‘real’ and ‘true’ monikers.

The Lord doesn’t leave us as-is. He gets into the nooks and crannies that enable us to be more like Him and see life from His perspective.

No one gets it right perfectly. But an earnest want to live as He says is necessary. He steers us aright and removes the blinders. We begin to see beyond the obvious.

The closer we grow to Him the more we’ll recognize the difference between what He said and what occurs in the church. We won’t be misled by adornment or empty words. We’ll know the truth and it holds us to the path we’re called to walk.

It’s a wondrous thing when His spirit enlightens us. God bless.

Bella, thank you. I agree. We need to be people of discernment for deception is everywhere. They dress it up to make it sound good and it tickles itching ears but it is a lie from hell trying to convince people that evil is good and that good is evil.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Good post and music. I listen to his and other who do similar.

..............

Sorry I had to post a few more

God bless.

Thank you, LGW. Glory to God. Thank you for the music selections. I will look at these later.

 

[bèlla]

Bella, thank you. I agree. We need to be people of discernment for deception is everywhere. They dress it up to make it sound good and it tickles itching ears but it is a lie from hell trying to convince people that evil is good and that good is evil.

Once a person succumbs to deception they grow hostile to the truth and push against it. They prefer ideas that mirror their own and the desires of their heart. Every nibble leads them further from God.

Keep sharing Sue. I haven’t experienced the hardships you’ve had with the church. But your message resonates. I’ve seen a lot and had my own encounters that echo your statements.

I knew something was wrong and I couldn’t be around it. I didn’t understand the reason. But I wasn’t at peace within. Over time I realized it was the absence of the Lord and the presence of a different spirit that contradicted His.

It’s dull and lifeless and bears no fruit. It leaves a lot of broken hearts and shattered hope in its path. Many question or turn away from God. Believing He’s at fault.

Building your faith on a lie is grievous. It always topples.

God bless and keep you. I pray you’re well and in good health.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Once a person succumbs to deception they grow hostile to the truth and push against it. They prefer ideas that mirror their own and the desires of their heart. Every nibble leads them further from God.

Keep sharing Sue. I haven’t experienced the hardships you’ve had with the church. But your message resonates. I’ve seen a lot and had my own encounters that echo your statements.

I knew something was wrong and I couldn’t be around it. I didn’t understand the reason. But I wasn’t at peace within. Over time I realized it was the absence of the Lord and the presence of a different spirit that contradicted His.

It’s dull and lifeless and bears no fruit. It leaves a lot of broken hearts and shattered hope in its path. Many question or turn away from God. Believing He’s at fault.

Building your faith on a lie is grievous. It always topples.

God bless and keep you. I pray you’re well and in good health.

Bella, thank you. Glory to God. I agree with you. Not too many people are seeing this, though, which is so very sad. Many are deceived because "men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil."

Thank you for your inquiry after my health. I am fair. Have some head congestion at the moment, but not severe. Still dealing with a knee that is lacking in strength, but God has said that his grace is sufficient and that I am just to trust him, so I am, and I know the Lord is allowing this for his purposes and for his glory, so I rest in him.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Bella, thank you. Glory to God. I agree with you. Not too many people are seeing this, though, which is so very sad. Many are deceived because "men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil."

Thank you for your inquiry after my health. I am fair. Have some head congestion at the moment, but not severe. Still dealing with a knee that is lacking in strength, but God has said that his grace is sufficient and that I am just to trust him, so I am, and I know the Lord is allowing this for his purposes and for his glory, so I rest in him.

Keep in mind here though, Jesus already told us that these things were going to happen before His second coming through His Word.

God bless

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Keep in mind here though, Jesus already told us that these things were going to happen before His second coming through His Word.

God bless

Yes, that is one of the things I try to point out to people but they still many of them don't see it or won't see it. I will ask them if they believe what the Bible teaches. Of course they answer yes. So then when I point out that what it says is going to happen is happening, then I usually get no response. Many of them don't want to accept that what was foretold in the Scriptures is actually happening.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, that is one of the things I try to point out to people but they still many of them don't see it or won't see it. I will ask them if they believe what the Bible teaches. Of course they answer yes. So then when I point out that what it says is going to happen is happening, then I usually get no response. Many of them don't want to accept that what was foretold in the Scriptures is actually happening.

Yes I can understand what your saying here. I love Gods Word (excuse the pun to my avatar). I get sad when sharing scripture sometimes and those I share them too do not seem to be interested or try to explain them away and read a different meaning into them. I pray for everyone here though and have met some really nice people that love to talk about God's Word like I do though so all is not too bad.

God bless

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Yes I can understand what your saying here. I love Gods Word (excuse the pun to my avatar). I get sad when sharing scripture sometimes and those I share them too do not seem to be interested or try to explain them away and read a different meaning into them. I pray for everyone here though and have met some really nice people that love to talk about God's Word like I do though so all is not too bad.

God bless

I always take courage in that Scripture that says that God's word will not return void (or empty) but will accomplish the purpose for which God sent it. Even if they are not listening now, they are still hearing the Word of God, and it will not return empty/void. We never know how God is using his word in people's lives, and even if they may resist it now, later they may receive it. Our assignment from God is just to speak it and it is the Spirit's job to convict people's hearts and to turn them to God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I always take courage in that Scripture that says that God's word will not return void (or empty) but will accomplish the purpose for which God sent it. Even if they are not listening now, they are still hearing the Word of God, and it will not return empty/void. We never know how God is using his word in people's lives, and even if they may resist it now, later they may receive it. Our assignment from God is just to speak it and it is the Spirit's job to convict people's hearts and to turn them to God.

Yes exactly right! Because of this I now see that sharing scripture is not a waste of time. It is a seed planting time. If the seed is not planted nothing can grow right? So even if we plant (share) Gods' Word today and nothing happens it does not mean that something will not germinate and grow tomorrow. There is lots to learn in the parable of the sower.

God bless

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Good post and music. I listen to his and other who do similar. God bless.

I love the harmonies in all of these songs you posted on here. So much of what is being sung in modern day gatherings of the church is all in unison with no music to read. I grew up singing the hymns at home, in the car on trips, with my friends on the front porch, with my mom playing them on the piano, and at church gatherings. So I learned to read music early on and to sing various parts, too. I have sung in many different groups over the years but now my voice is not in good shape, but I still try. But I love to hear the parts and the harmonies. So, thank you for sharing these with me.

 

[GDL]

First of all, let’s look at what the phrase “messed up” means

Always a good read, Sue. Prayerfully you're not just "preaching to the choir, as they say, and those who need the truth you speak, He is sending to read your posts.

It's also prayerfully that many will see what you're doing here in defining words. So many just do not think about the words they speak, and they read or hear things and just lazily agree with them without reasoning what is actually being said.

Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians 3 in terms of being a master-builder - an architecton - and laying the only foundation - Jesus Christ (Jesus is the Christ) - that can be built upon. In following suit, I started checking foundations when I'm speaking to someone I don't know. I've found that many to most professing "believers" do not know what "Christ" means and that they cannot explain the word and title. If they could, they'd understand that we cannot be believing in this one with all authority in Heaven and on the earth that is His inheritance apart from willingly bowing the knee to Him and obeying what He says and commands. In Paul's more complete presentation of the Good News in Acts 13, he references Psalm 2 for people to get some explanation of who and what YHWH's Christ is. This is an architecton laying a solid foundation for those he would later be writing 1 Corinthians 15 to. IOW, they knew who YHWH's Christ was and what this title meant before they read this letter.

Our use of language is very weak. We think we know what we're saying, when in many instances we actually do not. And we frequently think we understand what someone else is saying, when in actuality we are defining certain words differently from one another and thus in essence speaking a different language.

Through such realizations I came to understand that some credentialed teachers who think and teach the false gospel you work to identify and correct, at the foundation of things, did/do not know the basics: what words like "salvation" and "faith" mean when God uses them. They were [unknowingly?] working hard to define "faith" wrongly, making it fit their errant theology. And I found through extensive and lengthy word studies, which are really just doing the basic and foundational exegetical work to understand how God uses a word, so we can think and speak as He does, that topics like "salvation" become clear and that many do not know what this vital word truly means and encompasses.

As usual, Sue, your work refreshes me. As does the work and comments of others who are in this discussion. It's nice to be in some high degree of accord with those who care about the Truth and who listen to the Spirit telling them something's wrong in certain surroundings (ekklesias).

 

[SamInNi]

“I’d rather attend church with messed up people who love God, than religious people who dislike messed up people.”

If I’m reading this correctly, I think I can relate to it.

We can’t conclude that the “messed up people” are resigned to being in that state. Certainly, in the world of religiosity, self-righteous folk probably have hearts that are far from God.

So, I’d rather be in a local body of Christ where members are honest with themselves, continually confronting their flesh, than be among the religious Pharisees (Luke 18:10-14) who say, “I am not like other people.”

 

[GDL]

“I’d rather attend church with messed up people who love God, than religious people who dislike messed up people.”

If I’m reading this correctly, I think I can relate to it.

We can’t conclude that the “messed up people” are resigned to being in that state. Certainly, in the world of religiosity, self-righteous folk probably have hearts that are far from God.

So, I’d rather be in a local body of Christ where members are honest with themselves, continually confronting their flesh, than be among the religious Pharisees (Luke 18:10-14) who say, “I am not like other people.”

Sure, it can be taken in a few ways, and I guess this is why the OP defined the words being used. So, define the words differently and it says something different, which was my earlier point regarding language. "Religion" is used both positively and negatively in the Text, depending upon how it's specified: by God or men.

One of the problems I see, and I think this OP addresses, is that "religion" or "religious" has come to be used mostly negatively. But it's not a wrong thing or bad word in itself and there are properly religious people who are improperly criticized for their proper religiosity by the irreligious, just like there are improperly religious people who are properly criticized for their improper religiosity by the properly religious.

So, I guess I'd like to be in a local body where the properly religious are learning and growing to be more and more properly religious and helping one another to become so. This in essence is the purpose of assembling discussed and commanded of us in Hebrews 10:24-25 where the immediate command is to pay close attention to one another (in assembly) to literally provoke/stimulate/stir up one another to love and good works, which in essence is spiritual maturity.

It's fascinating how these verses are twisted to criticize those who have come to not assemble with the continually irreligious who work to create a social club that is friendly to the unbeliever, maintaining at best an improper perpetual infancy in believers, and criticizing the properly religious as being Pharisaical.

We need to learn to think and speak like God in imitation of Him. All else is nonsense at best.

 

[GDL]

And after writing this:

We need to learn to think and speak like God in imitation of Him. All else is nonsense at best.

I read this:

Nonsense, Nonsense

Two witnesses...Same Spirit.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Sure, it can be taken in a few ways, and I guess this is why the OP defined the words being used. So, define the words differently and it says something different, which was my earlier point regarding language. "Religion" is used both positively and negatively in the Text, depending upon how it's specified: by God or men.

One of the problems I see, and I think this OP addresses, is that "religion" or "religious" has come to be used mostly negatively. But it's not a wrong thing or bad word in itself and there are properly religious people who are improperly criticized for their proper religiosity by the irreligious, just like there are improperly religious people who are properly criticized for their improper religiosity by the properly religious.

So, I guess I'd like to be in a local body where the properly religious are learning and growing to be more and more properly religious and helping one another to become so. This in essence is the purpose of assembling discussed and commanded of us in Hebrews 10:24-25 where the immediate command is to pay close attention to one another (in assembly) to literally provoke/stimulate/stir up one another to love and good works, which in essence is spiritual maturity.

It's fascinating how these verses are twisted to criticize those who have come to not assemble with the continually irreligious who work to create a social club that is friendly to the unbeliever, maintaining at best an improper perpetual infancy in believers, and criticizing the properly religious as being Pharisaical.

We need to learn to think and speak like God in imitation of Him. All else is nonsense at best.

Thank you! Well said.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

And after writing this:



I read this:

Nonsense, Nonsense

Two witnesses...Same Spirit.

Glory to God.

 

[chad kincham]

There is a popular meme on Facebook that says, “I’d rather attend church with messed up people who love God, than religious people who dislike messed up people.”

The Messed Up

So, what is this saying? And what do the Scriptures say about this? First of all, let’s look at what the phrase “messed up” means:

Mess – chaos, confusion, disorder, disarray, disaster, trouble
Messed up – failed, ruined, abortive, futile, miss the mark (sin)

So, if you quote this, what you are saying is that you would rather attend church (meaning the fleshly and worldly gatherings of the institutional church, not the body of Christ) with people who are failed, ruined, abortive, who have missed the mark, i.e. who are still living in sin, and who are not walking in holiness and righteousness according to the Spirit but who are still walking (in conduct, in practice) according to the flesh.

And so you are also stating that these who are messed up, i.e. who are still living in sin, according to the flesh, who are living failed and ruined lives, are those who love God. And we’ll discuss that in a few minutes. But then you are saying that you would rather be in “church” with people who are still living in sin than you would be with people who are religious.

The Religious and Love for God

So, let’s define “religious.”

Religious – spiritual, sacred, devout, moral, virtuous, reverent, holy, godly, faithful, loyal, reliable, professers of faith in Jesus Christ, worshipers of God, pure, undefiled, unspotted from the world, merciful, loving

Okay, then let’s go back to the part about “who love God.” So, what does the Bible teach about love for God? It says that if we love God that we will obey his commandments. And love means to prefer what God prefers, which is what is holy, righteous, morally pure, upright, faithful, and honest, etc. And it means to obey his choices in his power. And if we do not obey him, we do not love him, and we do not know him, and we don’t have eternal life with him. So, the “messed up” do not love God.

[Jn 8:51; Jn 14:15-24; Jn 15:10; Rom 6:16; Heb 5:9; 1 Pet 1:2; Jas 1:21-25; 1 Jn 2:3-6, 15; 1 Jn 3:4-10, 18, 24; 1 Jn 4:19-20; 1 Jn 5:2-3; 2 Jn 1:6]

The Religious and the Disliked

Now, let’s look at the word “dislike.”

Dislike – hate, loathing, displeasure, detest, disapprove, displeased

Okay, now I want to go back and look at “religious” along with “dislike,” for I think this can go several different ways. You can be falsely religious, i.e. you can be devout, dedicated, and loyal to the wrong things or to a false god. And that can be loyalty and devotion to any man-made religion, which includes not just legalists who follow a set of man-made rules and who look down on anyone who doesn’t follow their rules, but it includes followers of the cheap grace gospel whose religion tells them that they don’t have to repent of their sins or obey the Lord or submit to his Lordship.

And they are looking down on the religious who are following the Lord with wholehearted devotion, which is exactly what this meme is depicting. So, the “messed up” are “disliking” those they deem to be “religious,” which often is not the true legalists, but it is those who are following the Lord in purity of devotion to him and who are walking in his ways and in his truth and who are exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness and who are calling people to repentance and obedience and to make Jesus their master.

But the truly religious, I mean those who are truly following Jesus with their lives don’t “dislike” the “messed up.” They love them, and they weep over them, and they grieve because they are “messed up,” and so they speak the truth in love to them, and they expose Satan’s lies to them, and they share with them the truth of the gospel because they love them, and because they want them to be free from their chains and from their addiction to sin, and they want to see them walk in victory over darkness and in holiness and in righteousness and to have true salvation from sin and eternal life with God.

The Church

And then let’s look at the definition of “church.” The word in the Greek is “ekklēsía,” which means: “People called out from the world and to God.” “The universal (total) body of Christ (of believers in Christ) whom God calls out from the world and into his eternal kingdom.” “Belonging to the Lord.” (source: Strong's Greek: 1577. ἐκκλησία (ekklésia) -- an assembly, a (religious) congregation).

This is also what it means to be holy or to be saints. It means to be unlike (different) from the world because we are being made into the likeness of Christ. We are called out from the world and unto God. And if we are unlike the world, and if we are called out from the world, then we shouldn’t be defined as the “messed up,” but we should be defined as the “religious” who are holy, righteous, godly, morally pure, and unspotted from the world.

So, the church is not a building or a church denomination or an organization or a corporation or a business which is being marketed to the world. The church is the called out of God, who are living lives which are separate from the world because they are being conformed into the likeness of Christ. And that church can meet any day of the week at any hour in any location.

Summary of the “Messed up” Meme

So, back to the meme itself. If we now read the meme in light of what we just learned here we can’t help but see the fallacy in the whole thing. For, “church” is the body of Christ of people who are holy and who are called out of the world and unto God, to live godly and righteous lives. They are not the “messed up,” although they are certainly not perfect. But if they are living in spiritual adultery against the Lord, they are “messed up.” But the church, as a whole, should not be “messed up.”

The “messed up” are those who are living in sin, in disobedience to the Lord, who are failing to keep God’s commandments, and so they don’t love God. And the Scriptures teach that if this is how we live, in practice, that we don’t know God and that we will not inherit eternal life with God. They do show us, though, that it is possible for Christians to get far away from God and to need to be brought back to God via repentance, but if they do not repent, then they will not inherit eternal life with God.

And lastly, the truly religious are those who are walking in faithful obedience to the Lord, who are doing what he commands, and who are walking in holiness, righteousness, moral purity, honesty, and faithfulness, etc. And if this is where they are, they don’t “dislike” the “messed up,” but they love them and they are weeping over them and they are praying for their salvation and/or for them to return to the Lord. And so they are speaking the truth in love to them in hopes they will repent and obey the Lord.

[Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 15:1-11; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Eph 4:17-24; 1 Pet 2:24; 1 Co 6:9-10, 19-20; 2 Co 5:10, 15; Tit 2:11-14; Jas 1:22-25; Rom 12:1-2; Eph 2:8-10; Gal 5:16-21; Eph 5:3-6; Gal 6:7-8; Rom 2:6-8; Matt 7:21-23; Heb 10:26-27; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6; 1 Jn 3:4-10]

How Can I Keep From Singing

By Eithne Ni Bhraonain / Nicky Ryan / Roma Ryan

My life goes on in endless song
Above earth’s lamentation,
I catch the sweet, though far-off hymn
That hails a new creation.

Through all the tumult and the strife
I hear the music ringing,
It finds an echo in my soul.
How can I keep from singing?

What though my joys and comfort die?
The Lord my Savior liveth.
What though the darkness gather round?
Songs in the night He giveth.

No storm can shake my inmost calm,
While to that refuge clinging.
Since Christ is Lord of heaven and earth,
How can I keep from singing?

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Except you make a point based on using literal dictionary definitions of words, instead of a point based on what the meme really means to people who say it.

I’ve never heard it or said it before now, but what it tells me, is the meme is talking about religious people such as the religious hypocrites that Jesus contended against called the Pharisees, and is not talking about the truly devout.