Which of these eschatology houses will get washed away suddenly?

[claninja]

You are avoiding the obvious! Read this below.

Jesus said Luke 21:25-28, 36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative] … Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall (or mello or hereafter) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

When and what is this referring to?

As stated in my previous post , wouldn’t “all these things” refer not only the events of the of the destruction of Jerusalem but also to the things prior like “persecution earthquakes, wars, etc…”?

In its primary sense I believe it refers the 1st century Christian’s deliverance from the oppressive legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism through Christ coming in judgement upon Israel in 66-70ad.

see commentaries below, which agree. This is not to “prove” my position right. This is only to demonstrate that my position is orthodox and NOT exclusive to preterism:

Ellicot’s commentary On luke 21:28
“in its primary meaning here it points to the complete deliverance of the disciples from Jewish persecutions in Palestine that followed on the destruction of Jerusalem.”

Matthew Henry on Luke 21:28
“When Christ came to destroy the Jews, he came to redeem the Christians that were persecuted and oppressed by them; and then had the churches rest. When he comes to judge the world, he will redeem all that are his from their troubles”

Barnes notes on Luke 21:28
“It shall be fully established when the Jewish policy shall come to an end; when the temple shall be destroyed, and the Jews scattered abroad. Then the power of the Jews shall be at an end; they shall no longer be able to persecute you, and you shall be completely delivered from all these trials and calamities in Judea.”

Jamieson-fauset on Luke 21:28
“redemption—from the oppression of ecclesiastical despotism and legal bondage by the total subversion of the Jewish state and the firm establishment of the evangelical kingdom (Lu 21:31).”

gill on Luke 21:28
“for your redemption draweth nigh; not the redemption of their souls from sin, Satan, the law, the world, death, and hell; for that was to be obtained, and was obtained, before any of these signs took place; nor the redemption of their bodies at the last day, in the resurrection, called the day of redemption; for this respects something that was to be, in the present age and generation; see Luke 21:32 but the deliverance of the apostles and other Christians, from the persecutions of the Jews, which were very violent, and held till these times, and then they were freed from them: or by redemption is meant, the Redeemer, the son of man, who shall now come in power and glory, to destroy the Jews, and deliver his people”

Bengels on Luke 21:28
“Deliverance from the miseries which befell the Jews. [So long, to wit, as the shadows of the Levitical law, along with the City and Temple, were standing, the kingdom of GOD, or the free exercise of the Christian religion, did not as yet enjoy unrestricted scope.”

Pulpit commentary on Luke 21:28
“There is no doubt that the first reference in this verse is to the earlier part of the prophecy - the fate of the city and the ruin of the Jewish power. "Your redemption" would then signify "your deliverance from the constant and bitter hostility of the Jewish authority." After A.D. and the fall of Jerusalem, the growth of Christianity was far more rapid than it had been the first thirty or forty years of its It had no longer to cope with the skilfully ordered, relentless opposition of its deadly Jewish foe. Yet between the lines a yet deeper meaning is discernible. In all times the earnest Christian is on the watch for the signs of the advent of his Lord, and the restless watch serves to keep hope alive, for the watcher knows that that advent will be the sure herald of his redemption from all the weariness and painfulness of this life. Luke 21:28”

 

[sovereigngrace]

As stated in my previous post , wouldn’t “all these things” refer not only the events of the of the destruction of Jerusalem but also to the things prior like “persecution earthquakes, wars, etc…”?

In its primary sense I believe it refers the 1st century Christian’s deliverance from the oppressive legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism through Christ coming in judgement upon Israel in 66-70ad.

see commentaries below, which agree. This is not to “prove” my position right. This is only to demonstrate that my position is orthodox and NOT exclusive to preterism:

Ellicot’s commentary On luke 21:28
“in its primary meaning here it points to the complete deliverance of the disciples from Jewish persecutions in Palestine that followed on the destruction of Jerusalem.”

Matthew Henry on Luke 21:28
“When Christ came to destroy the Jews, he came to redeem the Christians that were persecuted and oppressed by them; and then had the churches rest. When he comes to judge the world, he will redeem all that are his from their troubles”

Barnes notes on Luke 21:28
“It shall be fully established when the Jewish policy shall come to an end; when the temple shall be destroyed, and the Jews scattered abroad. Then the power of the Jews shall be at an end; they shall no longer be able to persecute you, and you shall be completely delivered from all these trials and calamities in Judea.”

Jamieson-fauset on Luke 21:28
“redemption—from the oppression of ecclesiastical despotism and legal bondage by the total subversion of the Jewish state and the firm establishment of the evangelical kingdom (Lu 21:31).”

gill on Luke 21:28
“for your redemption draweth nigh; not the redemption of their souls from sin, Satan, the law, the world, death, and hell; for that was to be obtained, and was obtained, before any of these signs took place; nor the redemption of their bodies at the last day, in the resurrection, called the day of redemption; for this respects something that was to be, in the present age and generation; see Luke 21:32 but the deliverance of the apostles and other Christians, from the persecutions of the Jews, which were very violent, and held till these times, and then they were freed from them: or by redemption is meant, the Redeemer, the son of man, who shall now come in power and glory, to destroy the Jews, and deliver his people”

Bengels on Luke 21:28
“Deliverance from the miseries which befell the Jews. [So long, to wit, as the shadows of the Levitical law, along with the City and Temple, were standing, the kingdom of GOD, or the free exercise of the Christian religion, did not as yet enjoy unrestricted scope.”

Pulpit commentary on Luke 21:28
“There is no doubt that the first reference in this verse is to the earlier part of the prophecy - the fate of the city and the ruin of the Jewish power. "Your redemption" would then signify "your deliverance from the constant and bitter hostility of the Jewish authority." After A.D. and the fall of Jerusalem, the growth of Christianity was far more rapid than it had been the first thirty or forty years of its It had no longer to cope with the skilfully ordered, relentless opposition of its deadly Jewish foe. Yet between the lines a yet deeper meaning is discernible. In all times the earnest Christian is on the watch for the signs of the advent of his Lord, and the restless watch serves to keep hope alive, for the watcher knows that that advent will be the sure herald of his redemption from all the weariness and painfulness of this life. Luke 21:28”

Stop your avoidance! That is your ongoing pattern. Also, your hiding behind commentators, albeit, selectively quoting them to support your error.

What was the "redemption" Jesus talked about that "draweth nigh" [Gr. eggizō] and when did it arrive?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

It's Redundant and unnecessary, and antithetical to the character and nature of God to insist He purposefully led millennia worth of Christians into believing and expecting a falsehood, just so they could have "motivation" that they already had plenty of anyway, and which ended up leading an untold number of Christians to fall away from the faith when that expectation failed to materialize for them.

I truly don't understand your perspective at all. Who exactly has fallen away as a result of Christ not returning in their lifetimes? Can you name even one person who has fallen away for that reason? You made other comments about me speculating on things. That's exactly what you're doing. Looking forward to Christ's return, whenever it happens, gives people hope because once He does return it will usher in the perfect, eternal new heavens and new earth where sin and death will no longer exist. Is that not encouraging to you and not a reason to look forward to His return, whether He returns in your lifetime or not? Again, I don't understand your perspective whatsoever.

What about those who Paul and Peter wrote to that died before 70 AD? Were they lied to since He didn't return in their lifetimes? That's the kind of logic you're using. How exactly does it harm anyone to look forward to His return and watch and be ready for it if He doesn't return in their lifetimes? You have yet to explain that. You're claiming that they somehow fall away if He doesn't return in their lifetimes, but why would that be the case? And, again, who exactly has ever fallen away for that reason?

 

[grafted branch]

Who exactly has fallen away as a result of Christ not returning in their lifetimes? Can you name even one person who has fallen away for that reason?

I did when I believed Harold Camping many years ago. When Christ didn’t return as expected I became very skeptical and was embarrassed about the “gospel” that I shared with others. I was mocked by many friends and acquaintances.

It took many years before I even read the Bible again. I can only thank God that He has lead me back to examine the scriptures once again.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I did when I believed Harold Camping many years ago. When Christ didn’t return as expected I became very skeptical and was embarrassed about the “gospel” that I shared with others. I was mocked by many friends and acquaintances.

It took many years before I even read the Bible again. I can only thank God that He has lead me back to examine the scriptures once again.

I'm talking about the belief that He could return in someone's lifetime, but not necessarily. You're talking about someone telling you that He would return in your lifetime at a certain time, right (I'm not familiar with Harold Camping)? That's a completely different scenario than what I'm talking about. I'm only saying that it wouldn't cause someone to fall away if they believed He could return in their lifetime, but didn't.

 

[grafted branch]

I'm talking about the belief that He could return in someone's lifetime, but not necessarily. You're talking about someone telling you that He would return in your lifetime at a certain time, right (I'm not familiar with Harold Camping)?

Yes, that’s correct Harold Camping taught Jesus would return May 2011.

That's a completely different scenario than what I'm talking about. I'm only saying that it wouldn't cause someone to fall away if they believed He could return in their lifetime, but didn't.

I’m not like some people here who have always belonged to a church. I don’t really want to give a testimonial but here’s how eschatology affected me, maybe you can see why focusing on the timing of Christ’s future coming can lead people astray.


As a child I attended some Vacation Bible Schools and when one of the neighbor kids invited me to go camping with his church group I went and learned some things. I “accepted Jesus into my heart” but I didn’t really know any theology.

When I was in my late 20’s, one night I was going through the radio channels and listened to “open forum” where Harold Camping would answer questions live on the air. It was interesting and I ended up listening every evening to the program. He was an Amil who believed in TULIP, I learned a lot of theology from him. I started looking for a church I could go to.

Harold Camping was deceived and taught that Jesus would return in May 2011. When someone is truly deceived they don’t know it else they really aren’t deceived. I think Harold Camping was trying to be completely honest. He would say things like “ I’m just telling people how I understand the Bible” and “ if I don’t warn people then their blood will be on me”. He didn’t receive a salary for his work, he lived off the proceeds from his construction business that he sold. When I look back there was nothing unorthodox other than his date setting.

I was deceived at that time, I believed Harold Camping when he said the church has gone apostate, the world is getting ready to be judged, the end is near. He had his laundry list of reasons why and they all seemed true and matched his eschatology.

After the date came and went I thought all his theology was wrong, I didn’t know where truth was. To this day if I try to talk to some of my family members about the Bible they say “remember when you thought Jesus was going to come” and they are not interested in hearing what I have to say.


I understand now that date setting is a big red flag. If someone says I think we’re in Satan’s little season or the 2 witnesses are currently being overcome it’s also a red flag. This may not be date setting but if Christ doesn’t come, at some point people are going to question your theology and may never again want to believe the Bible.

I’m ok with just saying Jesus is coming some day, that’s true, I just think there can be negative side effects when we go too much beyond that.

 

[parousia70]

Yes, that’s correct Harold Camping taught Jesus would return May 2011.

I’m not like some people here who have always belonged to a church. I don’t really want to give a testimonial but here’s how eschatology affected me, maybe you can see why focusing on the timing of Christ’s future coming can lead people astray.


As a child I attended some Vacation Bible Schools and when one of the neighbor kids invited me to go camping with his church group I went and learned some things. I “accepted Jesus into my heart” but I didn’t really know any theology.

When I was in my late 20’s, one night I was going through the radio channels and listened to “open forum” where Harold Camping would answer questions live on the air. It was interesting and I ended up listening every evening to the program. He was an Amil who believed in TULIP, I learned a lot of theology from him. I started looking for a church I could go to.

Harold Camping was deceived and taught that Jesus would return in May 2011. When someone is truly deceived they don’t know it else they really aren’t deceived. I think Harold Camping was trying to be completely honest. He would say things like “ I’m just telling people how I understand the Bible” and “ if I don’t warn people then their blood will be on me”. He didn’t receive a salary for his work, he lived off the proceeds from his construction business that he sold. When I look back there was nothing unorthodox other than his date setting.

I was deceived at that time, I believed Harold Camping when he said the church has gone apostate, the world is getting ready to be judged, the end is near. He had his laundry list of reasons why and they all seemed true and matched his eschatology.

After the date came and went I thought all his theology was wrong, I didn’t know where truth was. To this day if I try to talk to some of my family members about the Bible they say “remember when you thought Jesus was going to come” and they are not interested in hearing what I have to say.


I understand now that date setting is a big red flag. If someone says I think we’re in Satan’s little season or the 2 witnesses are currently being overcome it’s also a red flag. This may not be date setting but if Christ doesn’t come, at some point people are going to question your theology and may never again want to believe the Bible.

I’m ok with just saying Jesus is coming some day, that’s true, I just think there can be negative side effects when we go too much beyond that.

Thank you for having the courage to share this testimony.

This is the rub. The majority of evangelical futurists here on this board, and indeed in this country, are not merely saying - and teaching - that Jesus MIGHT come in our generation (which is, of course, NOT what the apostles taught their flocks to believe), they are instead boldly declaring “Ours IS the last generation, Jesus WILL come in our lifetimes”… even claiming it WILL BE “within a decade” or so, as, “it IS the last hour”…(which, ironically, is EXACLTY what the apostles taught THEIR flocks to believe).

I’ve been posting here for two decades and I can’t count the number of members I’ve interacted with who’ve told me me “Mark my words we don’t have more than 5-10 years” Only to have those 5–10 years pass with nothing… Unsurprisingly, most of those members are no longer posting here, and those that remain have simply moved the goalposts, willfully ignoring, and hoping no one remembers, their previous false testimony..

This has of course happened countless times in the past 2 millennia, leaving untold numbers of well meaning, honest Christians struggling to find faith again, Or worse yet, leaving the faith altogether after the projected timeframe they’ve been taught “shall not pass before He comes”, indeed passes, once again, as it always has, without fail, 100% of the time, without His coming…

The above doesn’t even take into account the direct result of endtimes hysterias that cause evangelical Christians to abdicate their duties to America and neglect their children's futures. Evangelicals certain of a 1981 rapture gave up on America. Boy were they foolish. One of them, J.Vernon McGee, used to say: "you don't polish brass on a sinking ship." This was his excuse for abandoning America and our children's future. To that preacher, the present life was useless and he expected the rapture to come before he died. He was deadly wrong, and you and I are still here picking up the pieces after his neglect and his generation's neglect.

Thank you again for humbly and eloquently sharing a real world, personal example of the devastating, potentially eternal consequences, of holding such a fraudulent belief, that many of our readers will surely benefit from hearing.

 

[claninja]

Stop your avoidance! That is your ongoing pattern.

I guess I’m not sure how I am avoiding your question. I did answer the question in post 161. I stated:

“In its primary sense I believe it refers the 1st century Christian’s deliverance from the oppressive legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism through Christ coming in judgement upon Israel in 66-70ad.”

Also, your hiding behind commentators, albeit, selectively quoting them to support your error.

as I clearly stated before, but for some reason you continue to not understand, I’m not using commentators to “prove” my position right. I’m only using them to demonstrate my position is not only orthodox, but also not exclusive to preterism.

The commentators I posted agreed the “primary” sense refers to 1st century Christians being redeemed from the oppression of legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism. Some of the commentators I posted believe it solely about 70ad and Christ coming in judgement upon Israel , like Gill, while some believe it primarily 66-70ad, but could point to the future coming of Christ like Pope’s commentary.

What was the "redemption" Jesus talked about that "draweth nigh" [Gr. eggizō] and when did it arrive?

as stated in post 161:

“In its primary sense I believe it refers the 1st century Christian’s deliverance from the oppressive legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism through Christ coming in judgement upon Israel in 66-70ad.”

I’ll even add the gathering of the church into the wedding feast following Israel’s destruction is included in this “redemption”.

Matthew 22:7-10 The king was enraged, and he sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the crossroads and invite to the banquet as many as you can find.’So the servants went out into the streets and gathered everyone they could find, both evil and good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.


Now, what evidence do you have the the apostles believed the coming of Christ “had drawn near”, or was only “in a little while”, DECADES (plural as you put it) prior to 70ad?

 

[sovereigngrace]

I guess I’m not sure how I am avoiding your question. I did answer the question in post 161. I stated:

“In its primary sense I believe it refers the 1st century Christian’s deliverance from the oppressive legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism through Christ coming in judgement upon Israel in 66-70ad.”




as I clearly stated before, but for some reason you continue to not understand, I’m not using commentators to “prove” my position right. I’m only using them to demonstrate my position is not only orthodox, but also not exclusive to preterism.

The commentators I posted agreed the “primary” sense refers to 1st century Christians being redeemed from the oppression of legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism. Some of the commentators I posted believe it solely about 70ad and Christ coming in judgement upon Israel , like Gill, while some believe it primarily 66-70ad, but could point to the future coming of Christ like Pope’s commentary.




as stated in post 161:

“In its primary sense I believe it refers the 1st century Christian’s deliverance from the oppressive legal bondage and persecution by apostate Judaism through Christ coming in judgement upon Israel in 66-70ad.”

I’ll even add the gathering of the church into the wedding feast following Israel’s destruction is included in this “redemption”.

Matthew 22:7-10 The king was enraged, and he sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the crossroads and invite to the banquet as many as you can find.’So the servants went out into the streets and gathered everyone they could find, both evil and good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.


Now, what evidence do you have the the apostles believed the coming of Christ “had drawn near”, or was only “in a little while”, DECADES (plural as you put it) prior to 70ad?

You know full well what I am pushing at, thus your careful avoidance.

From Jesus words re the redemption of His people to AD70 was clearly a long while, as you admit. 40 years is a long time. But this negates your whole imminent argument and 'short while' mantra. It was either a 'short while' or a 'long while'. You cannot have it both ways. You have been insisting for years that eggizō must be interpreted as near, close, imminent, and now you are recognizing that it can mean a long time in human terms (40 years).

 

[claninja]

You know full well what I am pushing at, thus your careful avoidance.

From Jesus words re the redemption of His people to AD70 was clearly a long while, as you admit. 40 years is a long time. But this negates your whole imminent argument and 'short while' mantra. It was either a 'short while' or a 'long while'. You cannot have it both ways. You have been insisting for years that eggizō must be interpreted as near, close, imminent, and now you are recognizing that it can mean a long time in human terms (40 years).

That has never been my argument. Therefore, sovereigngrace, you are either not understanding the partial preterist position that I hold, or you are willfully continuing to peddle a straw man argument against me.

I agree that 40 years, or a biblical generation, is a long time in human understanding.


however, i don’t believe the “at hand” or the “little while” time statements in regards to the coming of Christ in judgement upon Israel were written in 30ad as you seem to be propagating. I believe the “at hand” and “little while” time statements as found in 1 Peter 4:7, James 5:8-9, and Hebrews 10:37, were written in UNDER a decade away from 66-70ad, and possibly even during 66-70ad! That is completely different than what you are saying I believe!

 

[DavidPT]

I’ll even add the gathering of the church into the wedding feast following Israel’s destruction is included in this “redemption”.

Matthew 22:7-10 The king was enraged, and he sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city. Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited were not worthy. Go therefore to the crossroads and invite to the banquet as many as you can find.’So the servants went out into the streets and gathered everyone they could find, both evil and good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.


Now, what evidence do you have the the apostles believed the coming of Christ “had drawn near”, or was only “in a little while”, DECADES (plural as you put it) prior to 70ad?

Matthew 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Verse 7 is likely pertaining to what took place in 70 AD. Verse 8 is likely meaning that the wedding was ready at that time, soon after 70 AD. Verse 9 and 10 though, those verses are involving the entire NT church era, IOW, those verses involve at least 2000 years where this is being done throughout this 2000 years. In verse 10---and the wedding was furnished with guests---is meaning in the end of this age when all who will be brought into the kingdom have been brought into the kingdom.

Verse 11 is meaning the coming in the end of this age, not a coming that allegedly took place soon after 70 AD. Clearly, verse 9 and 10 involve a considerable amount of time to fulfill that. And how is it fulfilled? By the preaching of the gospel for one.

In Revelation 19 that is involving His coming in the end of this age, and in that chapter we are then told this---

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

There are not two weddings, there is only one wedding. This wedding was intitially ready in the first century except they which were bidden were not worthy. This then led to His servants going out to find guests for this wedding, which involves the NT church era and is still ongoing, as we speak. Why would anyone want to make verse 9 and 10 in Matthew 22 only about someone in the first century? Other centuries have followed after the first century. The first century wasn't the end of this age.

 

[sovereigngrace]

That has never been my argument. Therefore, sovereigngrace, you are either not understanding the partial preterist position that I hold, or you are willfully continuing to peddle a straw man argument against me.

I agree that 40 years, or a biblical generation, is a long time in human understanding.


however, i don’t believe the “at hand” or the “little while” time statements in regards to the coming of Christ in judgement upon Israel were written in 30ad as you seem to be propagating. I believe the “at hand” and “little while” time statements as found in 1 Peter 4:7, James 5:8-9, and Hebrews 10:37, were written in UNDER a decade away from 66-70ad, and possibly even during 66-70ad! That is completely different than what you are saying I believe!

You know I'm talking about Jesus words in Luke 21:25-28, 36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative] … Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall (or mello or hereafter) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

You admitted the fulfilment of this is referring to AD70? So, when did Jesus predict this?

 

[parousia70]

So, if I’m understanding you right @sovereigngrace, if I say today, “in 30 years my retirement will be near”, you take that to mean I’m saying “right now my retirement is near”.

do I have that correct?

 

[sovereigngrace]

So, if I’m understanding you right @sovereigngrace, if I say today, “in 30 years my retirement will be near”, you take that to mean I’m saying “right now my retirement is near”.

do I have that correct?

Full Preterists claim that

 

[claninja]

You know I'm talking about Jesus words in Luke 21:25-28, 36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh [Gr. eggizō - present active indicative] … Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall (or mello or hereafter) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

You admitted the fulfilment of this is referring to AD70? So, when did Jesus predict this?

correct, I believe this fulfilled, as stated multiple times now.

jesus predicted that “WHEN these things begin to occur, they would know their redemption is drawing near” prior to his crucifixion

 

[claninja]

Matthew 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Verse 7 is likely pertaining to what took place in 70 AD. Verse 8 is likely meaning that the wedding was ready at that time, soon after 70 AD. Verse 9 and 10 though, those verses are involving the entire NT church era, IOW, those verses involve at least 2000 years where this is being done throughout this 2000 years. In verse 10---and the wedding was furnished with guests---is meaning in the end of this age when all who will be brought into the kingdom have been brought into the kingdom.

Verse 11 is meaning the coming in the end of this age, not a coming that allegedly took place soon after 70 AD. Clearly, verse 9 and 10 involve a considerable amount of time to fulfill that. And how is it fulfilled? By the preaching of the gospel for one.

In Revelation 19 that is involving His coming in the end of this age, and in that chapter we are then told this---

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

There are not two weddings, there is only one wedding. This wedding was intitially ready in the first century except they which were bidden were not worthy. This then led to His servants going out to find guests for this wedding, which involves the NT church era and is still ongoing, as we speak. Why would anyone want to make verse 9 and 10 in Matthew 22 only about someone in the first century? Other centuries have followed after the first century. The first century wasn't the end of this age.

I believe:

1.) there are NOT 2 weddings.

2.) The wedding feast was ready in the first century

3.) the destruction of the original guests and their city refers to 70ad and the coming of the son of man on the clouds to judge Israel in 66-70ad.

4.) the servants being sent out to gather the good and the bad into the wedding feast following the destruction of the city = Jesus sending out his angels or “messengers” to gather the elect from the four winds following his coming on the clouds in judgement of israel

5.) the wedding feast is not yet full

 

[DavidPT]

5.) the wedding feast is not yet full

What does it then mean once the wedding feast is full?

 

[sovereigngrace]

correct, I believe this fulfilled, as stated multiple times now.

jesus predicted that “WHEN these things begin to occur, they would know their redemption is drawing near” prior to his crucifixion

So, would you consider 40 years imminent, quick and/or soon?

 

[claninja]

So, would you consider 40 years imminent, quick and/or soon?

40 years, in general, is not quick or soon from my perspective.

It seems 40 years is enough time for a generation to pass away

Numbers 32:13 And the Lord’S anger was kindled against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation that had done evil in the sight of the Lord was consumed.

 

[claninja]

What does it then mean once the wedding feast is full?

future coming? future judgement?