Shadow of the mark

Spiritual Jew

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I agree. They've modified many Mosaic laws to suit their tastes now, such as the passover observance, & several rules about what's kosher food. It won't be a TRUE temple of God anyway, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it.
This is such complete nonsense that you think both Paul (in 2 Thess 2) and John (in Revelation 11) would call something that isn't a true temple of God "the temple of God". It's also complete nonsense that you think Jesus would call a future fake temple of God "the holy place".
 
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Hammster

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This is such complete nonsense that you think both Paul (in 2 Thess 2) and John (in Revelation 11) would call something that isn't a true temple of God "the temple of God". It's also complete nonsense that you think Jesus would call a future fake temple of God "the holy place".
That’s a good point. I’ve never thought of it that way.
 
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jgr

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God will allow it to be built so the AOD can take place in it. How long God will allow it to exist, I have no idea.

Holy God will allow no such thing.

The abomination of desolation advanced on Jerusalem in 70 AD. (Luke 21:20).

But dispen seducers will continue to deceive and be deceived. (2 Timothy 3:13)
 
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Timtofly

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No. We are talking about Revelation and about its timeframe - "soon".
How can both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation both be soon if there are 40 years between them, and that is being very liberal in a dating sense. Most would say over 60 years.
 
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Timtofly

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Nothing about Jesus “returning” to do this. Also what does zechariah mean when he says the lord will fight “as when he fought in the day of battle”?

Can you point to any examples previous to Zachariah where the Lord “fought in the day of battle” so we can examine the Scriptures and understand what Zachariah means?

Clearly Zachariah is encouraging us to look at the previous examples of how the Lord fought in the day of battle, so we can understand what this battle he is describing would be like. Clearly Zachariah is saying, the way the Lord previously fought his enemies is the same way he will do so in this battle.

Can you point me to any of those previous examples?
"And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha."
 
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parousia70

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"And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. And Elisha prayed, and said, Lord, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the Lord opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the Lord, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha."

Cool.
How about this one:

2 Samuel 22:8-16

8 Then the earth shook and trembled;
The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
Because He was angry.
9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
With darkness under His feet.
11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
13 From the brightness before Him
Coals of fire were kindled.

14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice.
15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered,
At the rebuke of the Lord,
At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.
 
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Hammster

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I take the Second Coming as literal, and to the Mt. Of Olives.
Does it literally have to happen that way? Or is there imagery in those verses?
 
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trophy33

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How can both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation both be soon if there are 40 years between them, and that is being very liberal in a dating sense. Most would say over 60 years.
Jesus said that some of His generation will still be alive, He did not use the term "soon". He said that in around 30 AD.

The book of Revelation said the things written in it will happen soon. It was written later after Jesus, in 60's AD.
 
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robycop3

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Hold on. Is this literal or figurative? You seem to switch back and forth with ease, so I need to know. Let’s start with the head wound. Where do you find it and how do you know it’s literal?
Rev. 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


While the beast signifies both the man & his empire, the same ones of Rev. 17.which will make war with the Lamb(Jesus) and lose. Apparently, the man will receive what should be a fatal head wound, but will recover, which will cause many people to worship him, as well as worship Satan, at least indirectly.

If you're old enough to remember the JFK assassination, think what a miracle it would seem if he had recovered from a bullet wound that blew a quarter of his brain out. That's how people will view the survival of the beast.
 
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parousia70

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If you're old enough to remember the JFK assassination, think what a miracle it would seem if he had recovered from a bullet wound that blew a quarter of his brain out. That's how people will view the survival of the beast.
Nah, not today.
People by and large, will either not care or simply find it not too strange.
People today expect the unexpected.
Nothing is marveled over anymore.
Folks are largely desensitized to any sort of shocking events or “miracles” anymore.

Any purported head wound healing like that will maybe be looked at as interesting when it first happens, then Within a day or so nobody will care. People today just wouldn’t spend much time “marveling” over a mere medical oddity.
 
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trophy33

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Nah, not today.
People by and large, will either not care or simply find it not too strange.
People today expect the unexpected.
Nothing is marveled over anymore.
Folks are largely desensitized to any sort of shocking events or “miracles” anymore.

Any purported head wound healing like that will maybe be looked at as interesting when it first happens, then Within a day or so nobody will care. People today just wouldn’t spend much time “marveling” over a mere medical oddity.
Also, in the world of CGI, virtual reality, holograms, movies etc. people cannot believe all they see, anymore.
 
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parousia70

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Also, in the world of CGI, virtual reality, holograms, movies etc. people cannot believe all they see, anymore.
Yup, There’s absolutely that too.
“Deepfake” is well known and understood.
People theses days are smart enough not to blindly believe even what they see with their own eyes.
The beast is gonna find a 21st century world so full of skeptics he’ll wish he had shown up in the first century like he was supposed to….
 
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trophy33

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trophy33

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Yup, There’s absolutely that too.
“Deepfake” is well known and understood.
People theses days are smart enough not to blindly believe even what they see with their own eyes.
Let us not forget cloning, doubles, twins...

If robycop3 thinks that what worked in the 1st century would work today, too, he is obviously mistaken. Half of the planet would not care at all and the other half would just see it as some temporal absurd news.
 
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robycop3

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This is such complete nonsense that you think both Paul (in 2 Thess 2) and John (in Revelation 11) would call something that isn't a true temple of God "the temple of God". It's also complete nonsense that you think Jesus would call a future fake temple of God "the holy place".
OK, then, what sanctuary do YOU suppose the beast will enter to proclaim himself God?
 
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robycop3

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Holy God will allow no such thing.
Apparently He WILL.

The abomination of desolation advanced on Jerusalem in 70 AD. (Luke 21:20).
No, that was part of the "days of vengeance". The AOD will be when the beast enters the temple & proclaims himself God. The pattern for this was set in the 160s BC when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus in the temple & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. That was the AOD mentioned by Daniel.

But dispen seducers will continue to deceive and be deceived. (2 Timothy 3:13)
But prets will continue with their illusions & guesswork.
 
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robycop3

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Nah, not today.
People by and large, will either not care or simply find it not too strange.
People today expect the unexpected.
Nothing is marveled over anymore.
Folks are largely desensitized to any sort of shocking events or “miracles” anymore.

Any purported head wound healing like that will maybe be looked at as interesting when it first happens, then Within a day or so nobody will care. People today just wouldn’t spend much time “marveling” over a mere medical oddity.
I beg to differ. if it's some well-known public figure. Few people marveled when, in the early 1900s, a Canadian road-builder survived having a steel tamping rod blasted thru his lower jaw & roof of his mouth til it protruded thru the top, of his head, & his surviving its removal, going on to recover & live an almost-normal life. Now, if that had been the POTUS or some world celebrity, the marvel woulda been enormous. So it shall be with the beast/antichrist, & lead many people to believe his claim to be God.
 
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trophy33

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I beg to differ. if it's some well-known public figure. Few people marveled when, in the early 1900s, a Canadian road-builder survived having a steel tamping rod blasted thru his lower jaw & roof of his mouth til it protruded thru the top, of his head, & his surviving its removal, going on to recover & live an almost-normal life. Now, if that had been the POTUS or some world celebrity, the marvel woulda been enormous. So it shall be with the beast/antichrist, & lead many people to believe his claim to be God.
It could work in the ancient Rome, when the concept of deity was pagan.

In Christian/muslim/jewish culture, the concept of God is trancendent above our reality and very different from some miraculous survival of head injury, you should know that. And in buddhist/hinduist/shintoist culture they have many gods so they would not care too much about such claims.
And there is probably no need to even mention atheists.

Your expectations simply do not fit our todays world/culture.
 
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