Not under law: Not under its condemnation or its commands?

[Clare73]

I thought Jesus forgave the people that crucified Him. Forgive them for they know what they are doing.

Yes, that was the soldiers, or whoever, actually nailed him to the cross.
They were just doing their job, they weren't involved in the politics of it all, they didn't know they were crucifying the Lord of Glory.

Jesus loved us so much that He became one of us and that was while we were His mortal enemies.

The entire universe and everything in it belongs to Jesus. We were created for Him.
Of course He loves everyone.

Just doesn't sound like it to me in John 8:44-47; Luke 11:50-51 (43-53).

If you have done something wrong and your mother loses her temper with you. Calls you names and administers punishment, and warns you strongly.
That then means that your mother no longer loves you.

Are you paralleling that to the texts in John and Luke above?

Saul was destroying the infant church and does that mean that Jesus hated Paul?

Paul repented.

Did the Jewish leaders responsible for having him murdered repent?

Did the Jews you rejected him repent?

Do the Jews, or anyone else, who reject him today repent?

 

[klutedavid]

Yes, that was the soldiers, or whoever, actually nailed him to the cross.
They were just doing their job, they weren't involved in the politics of it all, they didn't know they were crucifying the Lord of Glory.

Just doesn't sound like it to me in John 8:44-47; Luke 11:50-51 (43-53).

Are you paralleling that to the texts in John and Luke above?
Paul repented.

Did the Jewish leaders responsible for having him murdered repent.

Did the Jews you rejected him repent.

Do the Jews today repent of rejecting him?

So your saying that God hates them all?

Jesus in the past destroyed humanity in a flood.

Do you think for one moment that you are special, and God would not have destroyed you?

Jesus broke the Sabbath law and claimed to be equal with God. That is heresy and blasphemy according to the Jews. I agree with them on that point. They had no idea that the Creator Himself was standing in front of them.

How could they know who Jesus was?

Peter did not know who Jesus was until it was revealed to Him.

Paul had no idea who Jesus was until Jesus appeared to him.

Who can blame the Jews?

Remember that we are saved by grace and we were under the sentence of death.

I cannot point the finger at anyone else.

By the way, the soldiers beat Him up and put a thorny crown on his head.

No one is ever innocent.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hmm....what standards does God use to judge His children? We, as children, cannot comprehend the answer as God's mind and experience is larger than our Cosmos.

Hello again Sky, actually, God had all of His breathed words (the words that He wanted us to have anyway) written down in a Book (you may have heard of it ), and He did so in a way that is perspicuous to most who have the ability to read.

Of course, I am well aware of the fact that you already know this.

So, do you believe (along with the Bible) that there 'is' a basis for God's judgment and condemnation of "ignorant" unbelievers (those who are ignorant of the Law of Moses, that is), or do you believe that their ignorance means that God will never be able to condemn them, even though He says that He can and will do so in the Bible?

Salvation by ignorance is an interesting concept. If it's possible, one has to wonder why the Father thought it necessary to send His only begotten Son down here to die that horrible death on the Cross for us, rather than just hanging out with Him in Heaven and letting all of us die in our ignorance down here (and be saved from our evil deeds as a result of being ignorant of the Law of Moses ).

--David

Romans 2
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law unto themselves, even though they do not have the Law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
.​

 

[SkyWriting]

Hello again Sky, actually, God had all of His breathed words (the words that He wanted us to have anyway) written down in a Book (you may have heard of it ), and He did so in a way that is perspicuous to most who have the ability to read.

Of course, I am well aware of the fact that you already know this.

So, do you believe (along with the Bible) that there 'is' a basis for God's judgment and condemnation of "ignorant" unbelievers (those who are ignorant of the Law of Moses, that is), or do you believe that their ignorance means that God will never be able to condemn them, even though He says that He can and will do so in the Bible?

Salvation by ignorance is an interesting concept. If it's possible, one has to wonder why the Father thought it necessary to send His only begotten Son down here to die that horrible death on the Cross for us, rather than just hanging out with Him in Heaven and letting all of us die in our ignorance down here (and be saved from our evil deeds as a result of being ignorant of the Law of Moses ).

--David

Romans 2
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law unto themselves, even though they do not have the Law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
.​

Yes.

 

[SkyWriting]

It doesn't require special training to expel open sin.

I'm afraid it does. A lot of specialness.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Matthew 23:28
So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

John 8:15
You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.

 

[St_Worm2]

Yes.

So, you agree with Cypher then, yes,

​

While that may not be "Christian", it is, well, something...........

 

[SkyWriting]

Hello again Sky, actually, God had all of His breathed words ....

How many of the 66 Bible writers make that claim?

 

[SkyWriting]

So, you agree with Cypher then, yes,

​

While that may not be "Christian", it is, well, something...........

Yes

 

[Clare73]

So your saying that God hates them all?
Jesus in the past destroyed humanity in a flood.
Do you think for one moment that you are special, and God would not have destroyed you?
Jesus broke the Sabbath law and claimed to be equal with God. That is
heresy and blasphemy according to the Jews. I agree with them on that point.

Surely you don't disagree with Jesus' answer regarding breaking the Sabbath in that situation. . .

They had no idea that the Creator Himself was standing in front of them.
How could they know who Jesus was?
Peter did not know who Jesus was until it was revealed to Him.
Paul had no idea who Jesus was until Jesus appeared to him.
Who can blame the Jews?

Well. . . both Jesus and the apostles did:

Jesus said they were not the children of God nor Abraham, as they claimed, but children of the devil because they sought to kill him (John 8:38-47).

He declared them guilty and condemned them to damnation when he declared that the blood of all the righteous from Abel to Zacarias was on their heads (Matthew 23:29-36),
because in seeking to murder him, the Prophet who was to come (Deuteronomy 18:17-19; John 1:21, John 6:14), and subsequently to murder his apostles (Matthew 23:33-34),
they were endorsing all such murders committed by their forefathers (Matthew 22:30-32)
and, therefore, would suffer the penalty for those murders.

The apostles likewise taught that the Jews were guilty of murdering Jesus (Acts 2:22-23, 3:12-15, 5:28, 7:51-53), declaring them guilty of murdering the Holy and Righteous One, the author of life.

It seems to me that Jesus did not love "all" unconditionally.

Remember that we are saved by grace and we were under the sentence of death.

I cannot point the finger at anyone else.
No one is ever innocent.

It's not about pointing fingers, it's about having a Biblical view of matters, rather than a non-Biblical view.

By the way, the soldiers beat Him up and put a thorny crown on his head.

We don't know that it was the same soldiers who were outside the city on Calvary.
It could well have been a separate detachment whose job was to execute the criminals who were sentenced in Jerusalem and then sent out to Calvary for their execution by a different group of soldiers.

 

[Clare73]

I'm afraid it does. A lot of specialness.

Open sin is just that. . .sin that is out in the open. . .there is no ignorance regarding either its occurrence or its sinfulness.

 

[SkyWriting]

Open sin is just that. . .sin that is out in the open. . .there is no ignorance regarding either its occurrence or its sinfulness.

You are just making BAD stuff up. Where are these outrageous ideas coming from?

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

Matthew 23:28
So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Proverbs 31:30
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

 

[Clare73]

You are just making BAD stuff up. Where are these outrageous ideas coming from?

Review the thread. . .it is presented there.

 

[SkyWriting]

Review the thread. . .it is presented there.

Review the scriptures. Hidden sin is not different from "open sin" an imaginary phrase of language. In fact any visible sin is a speck in the sea compared to the whole of sin in a persons life.

Matthew 5:22 NLT
But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment!

 

[FanthatSpark]

Jesus says, I only add to the law with one command... Treat others as yourself.


Now.... Would you like one of those laws broken upon our flesh and/or mind?

Hope this simplifies all that above. Noice meme of cypher too, lol.

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus says, I only add to the law with one command... Treat others as yourself.


Now.... Would you like one of those laws broken upon our flesh and/or mind?

Hope this simplifies all that above. Noice meme of cypher too, lol.

I don't wish people to imagine my sins nor do I ask them to bow before my judgment of theirs.

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Titus 3:2
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

 

[SkyWriting]

I'm instead asking if we're dead to the law of Moses but now married to Christ.

Correct. We are under Grace and subject to secular law.

 

[Clare73]

Review the scriptures. Hidden sin is not different from "open sin". . .an imaginary phrase of language. In fact any visible sin is a speck in the sea compared to the whole of sin in a persons life.

Matthew 5:22 NLT
But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment!

It is when it comes to judging sin in the body (assembly).

The context is 1 Corinthians 5. You might want to read it before opining.

 

[SkyWriting]

It is when it comes to judging sin in the body (assembly).

The context is 1 Corinthians 5. You might want to read it before opining.

We don't judge before Christ returns.

 

[Clare73]

We don't judge before Christ returns.

The NT disagrees with you.

We don't judge to eternal condemnation, but we do judge to excommunication from the body (assembly).
(1 Corinthians 5)

 

[keiw]

Hello! Various passages of Scripture suggest we're not under the law, which I understand to be the law of Moses. Do these passages suggest that its commands are no longer binding on us today?

Acts of the Apostles 15 seems to be about circumcision and keeping the law of Moses in general (Acts of the Apostles 15:5). The decision made seems to suggest that the commands of the law itself (e.g., circumcision) are no longer binding, but that we instead must follow a new set of commands.

Galatians 3:24-25 suggests we're no longer under the law just like how a child is no longer under a custodian. Does this suggest that the authority of the law can no longer command us, as opposed to the meaning being simply that the law can't punish us anymore? For example, when a child is no longer under a custodian, the result isn't merely that they can't be punished or condemned by the custodian; it's that they no longer have to obey the custodian as well.

Also, Romans 7:4 says we've become dead to the law. If the comparison of Romans 7:4 is between a husband and wife (Romans 7:1-3), how a wife is under the law of her husband (not just his condemnation but under his authority, right?) until he dies, then would this suggest that once we're dead to the law, we're no longer under its authority, and thus we don't have to follow it anymore (i.e., as opposed to it meaning that we only can't be punished or condemned by it but still must obey it)?

Do these passages suggest that we no longer are obligated to obey the commands of the law (at least some of them), rather than meaning we simply can't be punished by the law but still must obey it. (And again, I'm understanding "the law" as meaning "the law of Moses".)

Note: I'm not advocating for antinomianism: I'm instead asking if we're dead to the law of Moses but now married to Christ (and thus, need to obey Him, not the law of Moses).

It teaches in the NT that Law would be written on ones heart. That defines the new covenant= LOVE. Like this. If one has the love Jesus spoke of, that heart wouldnt even consider stealing from their brothers, cheating on their mate, coveting their brothers things, etc,etc,etc all the way down the line. Its all under real love in ones heart.
Now living in a world like this that can be hard sometimes to apply that kind of love in every situation. Pride can get in ones way easily. Its always wise to think first before one reacts to certain things. Probably the best way would be to ask oneself- What would Jesus do? We arent perfect though. It takes a bigger manor woman to walkaway from certain situations than let onespride win. The world that may be watching might laugh at you, but Jesus who is watching would be smiling that you put him first over self. And if being laughed at is the persecution we must endure, it is nothing compared to what Jesus had to endure.
I think the Moasic law was done away with when Jesus brought the new covenant. Its always best to apply Jesus.