Which Law Paul?

[HARK!]

Nope. . ."All who rely on observing the law are under a curse (eternal death)." (Galatians 3:10)

Again, which law?

Romans 8 (CLV)
1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nope. . ."All who rely on observing the law are under a curse (death)." (Galatians 3:10) "The law is death" is short version for: "the curse of the law is death," which curse all those who relied on observing the law were under "(Galatians 3:10).

Nope. The context and subject matter of Galatians 3:10 says nowhere that the "Law is death". Unless you think Paul is contradicting himself when he says "the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good and then continues by saying "is that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. - Romans 7:12-13.

The context and subject matter of Galatians 3:10 says nowhere that "the law is death". Paul agreeing with what Paul says in Romans 7:12-13 says "the wages of sin is death" in Romans 6:23. As posted earlier all the law does is give us the knowledge of what sin is when we break Gods' law *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and 1 John 3:4. Lets take a look at the context and subject matter of Galatians 3:10 which says "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Note; nowhere does it say anywhere that "the law is death"! The context and subject matter is to those who are seeking their salvation through the works of the law because all the law does is give us a knowledge of what sin is because all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *Romans 3:9-20 and the wages if sin is death *Romans 6:23. Therefore we cannot be made righteous by keeping the law because we have already sinned and broken the law (Romans 3:19). According to the scriptures sin is death not the law (Romans 6:23). The law simply gives us the knowledge of what sin is when the law is broken (Romans 7:7). Paul specifically states that the law is holy, just and good and not death in Romans 7:12-13.

Take Care.

 

[HARK!]

"The law is death" is short version for: "the curse of the law is death," which curse all those who relied on observing the law were under "(Galatians 3:10), from which curse Jesus redeemed us (Galatians 3:13).

Paul outlines his expressions of laws in his letter to the Romans.


The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)

Now certainly you aren't working under the assumption that Paul is equating the Torah (God's Law) to (The Law of Sin and Death) transgression of (God's Law)?

What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that!

 

[HARK!]

I already responded to that in the post above -- it is the same "gentile" group as in Acts 15. And there Peter says it is a gentile such as the Roman Centurion - Cornelius, except in his case he is not a pagan gentile at the time he converts to Christianity..

So is he speaking to the Ger Toshav, or the Ger Tzedek? Which makes more sense to you?

 

[HARK!]

Agreed - but Paul does say his teaching was being included and received as the "Word of God" -- but I agree that 2 Tim 3 is a reference to the OT text primarily since Paul says Timothy had been taught from it from childhood and so also Timothy's grandmother.

Paul taught almost exclusively from the TaNaK...you know....the same scripture that many try to say that Paul was saying had been abolished.

The irony is astounding.

 

[Clare73]

Revelation 2 is specifically addressing the Church at Ephesus this was a Church under Paul's teachings until they all turned away from him. Ephesus was the Capital of Asia.
(CLV) 2Ti 1:15 - Of this you are aware, that all those in the province of Asia were turned from me, of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
Did they turn from him; because he was telling them that they could no longer eat meat sacrificed to idols?

Those days were long gone.
They probably couldn't find him (1:7), chained (1:16, 2:9) and rotting in that cold Roman dungeon (4:13).

1 Corinthians 8 is only 13 verses long. Verse 1 seems to reveal the subject of this chapter.

Since it's such a short chapter; maybe you can walk me through, verse by verse to explain what in the world Paul is talking about here; and then harmonize it with what Yahshua said to the Church at Ephesus in Revelation 2.

I look forward to your scholarly dissection.

Why harmonize it with Revelation 2?
Ephesus lost its first love. They hated the Nicolaitans, a heretical sect who believed that religious liberty meant they could practice idolatry and immorality.

(CLV) 1Co 8:1
Now concerning the idol sacrifices: We are aware that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, yet love builds up.

idolatrous sacrifices = food sacrificed to idols,
knowledge = vv. 2-6,
love builds up = the Christian should love his brother who doubts.

(CLV) 1Co 8:2
If anyone is presuming to know anything, he knew not as yet according as he must know.

The man who thinks he knows something does not know as he ought to know; i.e.,
that all human knowledge is limited. Only God knows it all.

(CLV) 1Co 8:3
Now if anyone is loving God, this one is known by Him.

Knowledge tempered with love toward God shows that one is known and loved by God as one of God's own redeemed.
And if you remember how God loves you, you will love.

(CLV) 1Co 8:4
Then, concerning the feeding on the idol sacrifices: We are aware that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except One.

idol is nothing = it's not a real god and possesses no power,

(CLV) 1Co 8:5
For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords,

For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords),

(CLV) 1Co 8:6
nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him.

nevertheless there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things come and from whom we live;
and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

This is the knowledge of v.1 we possess.

(CLV) 1Co 8:7
But not in all is there this knowledge. Now some, used hitherto to the idol, are eating of it as an idol sacrifice, and their conscience, being weak, is being polluted.

not in all = not everyone knows this, that an idol has no personal reality,
used hitherto to the idol = some are still accustomed to idols,
eating of it as an idol sacrifice = when they eat such food they think of it as being sacrificed to a true idol,
their conscience is weak, it is polluted = those who think of an idol as being real cannot rid themselves of this idea. Therefore, they think that in eating meat sacrificed to idols they are involving themselves in pagan worship and have sinned against Christ.

(CLV) 1Co 8:8
Now food will not give us a standing with God, neither, if we should not be eating are we in want, nor if we should be eating are we cloyed.

Food does not bring us near to God
are we in want = we are no worse if we do not eat,
are we cloyed = we are no better if we do eat,

(CLV) 1Co 8:9
Now beware lest somehow this right of yours may become a stumbling block to the weak.

right of yours = exercise of your freedom--be careful that it does not become a stumbling block to the weak,

(CLV) 1Co 8:10
For if anyone should be seeing you, who |has knowledge, lying down in an idol's shrine, will not the conscience of him who |is weak be |inured to the eating of the idol sacrifices?

If anyone seeing you, who have this knowledge (of freedom)
lying down in an idol's shrine = eating in an idol's temple (they reclined),
whose conscience is weak = believe eating meat sacrificed to idols is involving themselves in idol worship,
be inured to the eating of idol sacrifices = be hardened (emboldened) to eat what has been sacrificed to idols?

(CLV) 1Co 8:11
For the weak one is perishing also by your knowledge; the brother because of whom Christ died.

So this weak brother is destroyed by your knowledge (of the truth), for whom Christ died.

(CLV) 1Co 8:12
Now in thus sinning against brethren, and beating their weak conscience, you are sinning against Christ.

Now in sinning against your brother in this way, and wounding his weak conscience, you are sinning against Christ.

(CLV) 1Co 8:13
Wherefore, if food is snaring my brother, I may under no circumstances be eating meat for the eon, lest I should be snaring my brother.

If what I eat causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

Summary:
Eating food sacrificed to idols is not idolatry, as the informed conscience knows (vv. 2-6) .
The Nicolaitans, however, took it to the next level, and believed that religious freedom allowed them to practice both idolatry and its sexual immorality.

1 Corinthians 8 is about eating food sacrificed to idols not being idolatry.
It's about brothers with a weak (uninformed) conscience thinking that it is idolatry and, therefore, for them it is sin, because they are violating their conscience.
It's about mature brothers not allowing their freedom in Christ to lead immature brothers to violate their conscience, which is sin for the immature brothers, as well as sinning against Christ for the mature brothers.

 

[Fervent]

Again, which law?

Romans 8 (CLV)
1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

The law of sin and death, which Paul told us how to identify earlier. You know, the one that brought sin to life and killed Paul. Which law is that? The one that contains the words "you shall not covet." Hmm...that sounds really familiar. Almost straight out of the law written on tablets of stone. Like...the 10 commandments...almost. Almost.

 

[Clare73]

Thank you for asking.

You pit the Spirit against the Law; but Paul says the Law is of the Spirit.

Talk is cheap. . .

You said the law does not make us perfect (righteous).

I said the Spirit does make us righteous.

You get to demonstrate that my statement is not Biblical.

 

[HARK!]

Those days were long gone.
They probably couldn't find him (1:7), chained (1:16, 2:9) and rotting in that cold Roman dungeon (4:13).

However, I see prophecy as figurative, so prophecy will have to be excluded from anything I examine as didactical.

Days long gone, or prophecy? Can we get a decision?

Why harmonize it with Revelation 2?

I'm convinced of the whole counsel of Paul which does not set Scripture against itself.

Again, can we get a decision?

 

[Clare73]

Which law?

Romans 8 (CLV)
1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Caesar's law, right?

The Mosaic law given by God, which they couldn't keep according to God's requirements, so it condemned them to eternal death, being unable to give them eternal life, for which it was not given any way.

 

[Clare73]

Days long gone, or prophecy? Can we get a decision?

Again, can we get a decision?

What are we deciding?

Adequate Biblical explanation, please.

 

[HARK!]

Talk is cheap. .

So now Paul's assertions are cheap talk? Is this an attempt to evade the fact that Paul said that the Law is of the the Spirit?

I said the Spirit does make us righteous.

How does it do that?

You get to demonstrate that my statement is not Biblical.

You get to go first.

Please prove that the law is not of the Spirit, with YHWH's word.

 

[HARK!]

The Mosaic law given by God, which they couldn't keep according to God's requirements

Says who?

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Jb 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz. Job was his name. This man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and keeping away from evil.

(CLV) Php 3:6
in relation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in relation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Dt 30:11
For this instruction that I am enjoining on you today, it is neither too difficult for you, nor is it too far off.

 

[Clare73]

Paul outlines his expressions of laws in his letter to the Romans.
The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)

Now certainly you aren't working under the assumption that Paul is equating the Torah (God's Law) to (The Law of Sin and Death) transgression of (God's Law)?

What, then, shall we declare? That the law is sin? May it not be coming to that!

Should I just start at Genesis 1:1 and exegete all the way to Jude 25?

Give the verses where each of these laws are found, that I may examine them.

 

[HARK!]

What are we deciding?

I'm trying to decide whether or not your seemingly conflicting statements are more difficult to understand than Paul's letters; but that's just me.

 

[Clare73]

So now Paul's assertions are cheap talk? Is this an attempt to evade the fact that Paul said that the Law is of the the Spirit?
How does it do that?
You get to go first.
Please prove that the law is not of the Spirit, with YHWH's word.

When you demonstrate that my statement is not Biblical, (post #68), we will move to the next thing on the table.

 

[HARK!]

Should I just start at Genesis 1:1 and exegete all the way to Jude 25?

Nope, this thread is about Paul's uses of the word Law.

Give the verses where each of these laws are found, that I may examine them.

I provided a link to a study on this subject in the OP. I would encourage you to read it over, in context, for proper hermeneutics.

 

[Clare73]

When you demonstrate that my statement is not Biblical, (post #68), we will move to the next thing on the table.

I sense insincerity here.
I was not insincere with you in post #66, giving you a full and complete response, with no dodging.

Those are the conditions required.

 

[Clare73]

Nope, this thread is about Paul's uses of the word Law.

I provided a link to a study on this subject in the OP. I would encourage you to read it over, in context, for proper hermeneutics.

I'm engaging with you, not a video.

If you aren't up to it, just say so.

 

[HARK!]

When you demonstrate that my statement is not Biblical, (post #68), we will move to the next thing on the table.

Perhaps you should review (Burden of Proof). Where did I make a statement that your statement is not Biblical? Please quote me.

..But first, without putting the cart before the horse, I would ask that you respond to the request that I made first.