Children of wrath by nature vs Vessels of Wrath

[testifier_uk]

The exalted believe in a permenant salvation, it is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ that teaches exaltation.


To obey the Gospel is to make yourself be last, to be first ( just like I said above about, make yourself a fool to be wise)


Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Mark 9: 36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

Luke 9:48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Matthew 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.




Matthew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

 

[testifier_uk]

All Israel is saved for they are not all Israel which are of Israel, but all children of the spirit are Israel...




Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[testifier_uk]

You also discussed about all people being children of wrath.


The Apostles exhort us for reason, because the word of truth brings us to God.


So iof anyone does not show ability to hear, how are they being drawn near God right now, but are instead showing speed to speak ?


That IS THE WRATH OF MAN, it is NOT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

Lay aside all of the naughtiness, and receive with MEEKNESS the engrafted word able to save your souls...



James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[testifier_uk]

Believers really need to look to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) for the high prize of our calling to be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ) to attend the marriage Supper in Heaven which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Jesus Christ. Yes. we all need to pray that we would not be ensnared by the acres of this life that we would not want to leave when He comes Luke 21:33-36

So our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and what we sow towards; the works of the flesh as heresy is a work of the flesh, or the fruits of the Spirit, will be judged on what is on that foundation.

May those who hope in the Lord Jesus Christ ( 1 john 3:3 ) rests in Him to finish His work in us to His glory.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Sin needs to be set aside permanently, buried with Him in baptism and dead to sin to be risen with the Lord ( quickened in the Spirit)


Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;



The Lord delivers us from every evil work, because we believe the Lord HAS DELIVERED US FROM THIS PRESENT EVIL WORLD ( AND ITS WORKS)




2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

 

[Hark]

Sin needs to be set aside permanently, buried with Him in baptism and dead to sin to be risen with the Lord ( quickened in the Spirit)


Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;



The Lord delivers us from every evil work, because we believe the Lord HAS DELIVERED US FROM THIS PRESENT EVIL WORLD ( AND ITS WORKS)




2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Although I agree, for any that should slip up and sin, we are to ask Jesus for forgiveness and for His help not to do it again which is why we are to look to Him daily in helping us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race for the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House. 1 John 2:1-2 & Hebrews 12:1-2 & 1 John 1:3-9

 

[hedrick]

I find it harder to avoid what's in front of me. . .and that is for over 2,000 years only a remnant has been saved, and that their salvation is conditioned on belief (as it is with all mankind, thereby placing them on the same footing as the Gentiles), while they have persisted in unbelief. . .with the over-all outcome being only a remnant of all mankind has been saved since the cross.

What about the huge majority that have not for over 2,000 years? That's a lot of casualties.

In objecting to "if," are you not objecting to Paul's own words?
Paul does not say "when," he says "if they do not persist in unbelief."
How can you call that "clear that it's when"?

He could have said "when," but he chose not to say it. . .wonder why?

We're still in the now, when there's a remnant.

"So that you may not claim to be wiser than you are, brothers and sisters,i I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved;"

The when is "until the full number of the Gentiles have come in."

My understanding would be that Paul envisioned that all Jews would come to faith. 11:13 seems to see salvation as contingent on faith.

Romans doesn't explicitly discuss what happens to non-Christians. Rom 3 implies some leeway for a kind of faith that doesn't fully understand. Thus I wouldn't write off all Jews. But for purposes of understanding Rom 9 - 11 I think we need to assume that God will save all of Israel by bringing all of Israel to faith, and that this hasn't happened yet.

 

[testifier_uk]

Although I agree, for any that should slip up and sin, we are to ask Jesus for forgiveness and for His help not to do it again which is why we are to look to Him daily in helping us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race for the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor. Hebrews 12:1-2

Proverbs 3:23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

Proverbs 4:12 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

 

[testifier_uk]

The god of this world blinds all people, Jews and Gentiles, blindness in part was done away with, wen all are blinded, otherwise it would not make sense..


Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


This is proof, we are not appointed to wrath, so of course all can believe now, but who does believe that I see. All you guys seem to do is speak swiftly and not hear at all, even Gods word correcting you on everything. I guess strife/divisions/debate/disputes and wrath is too loved..



1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[Hark]

Proverbs 3:23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

Proverbs 4:12 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Look at the prayer Jesus taught us to pray daily.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

So if any believer out there finds he or she cannot go thru a day without sinning, don't give up; just trust Jesus Christ to forgive you and to trust Him to help us not to commit that sin again along with all other sins daily.

 

[testifier_uk]

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Look at the prayer Jesus taught us to pray daily.

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

So if any believer out there finds he or she cannot go thru a day without sinning, don't give up; just trust Jesus Christ to forgive you and to trust Him to help us not to commit that sin again along with all other sins daily.

Required to be born again, here are all born again verses for you, it is called looking forward pressing forward towards Christ ( not backwards into disbelief which is sin:


Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 John 3: 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.




Some ( Christians forsaken the right way/false teachers as told) have ceased from sin,m some CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN..




1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;


2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

 

[testifier_uk]

Yes trust Jesus, but why trust the ones who Jesus predicted?


2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[testifier_uk]

The Lords prayer is, thy Kingdom come, and the Lords Kingdom did come, it is within us..


Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:


We obtained an inheritance when the Lord does His will now on earth as in heaven


Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:



Our daily bread is Jesus, He gave His flesh for us


John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


He forgave us ALL TRESSPASSES BY NAILING THEM TO HIS CROSS

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;



Jesus had to first suffer being tempted, then was able to succour us from temptation..


Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

 

[testifier_uk]

That is belief in the Kingdom and the power and the glory when you Know they are Christs...


Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

 

[testifier_uk]

Sin is hurting others, are are instead called to lay our lives down for others, light and darkness have no communion together, but the shameful things are reproved, not approved ( it is not scriptural at all)..


Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

 

[testifier_uk]

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[testifier_uk]

We need to know Jesus ( we know Him not before born again and sinning)


His love needs go be perfected in us, sinning is not perfect ,love, but it is hatred..


1 John 2:My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[testifier_uk]

Take the whole chapter of Hebrews 12, and the sin is what besets many, many are defiled ( sinning) and are told, how Esau found no place of repentance, as this is failing the grace of God, by turning it into lasciviousness as predicted to be done and encouraged/taught nosw



Hebrews 12:Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[testifier_uk]

That is them denying the power of the kingdom also ( when the prayer taught is thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory FOR EVER. AMEN..


Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.





Amen is the Lord Jesus Christs name also, not to be taken in vain..





Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

 

[Clare73]

We're still in the now, when there's a remnant.

"So that you may not claim to be wiser than you are, brothers and sisters,i I want you to understand this mystery: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved;"

Can "all Israel" really mean "all Israel" when probably millions since the time of Christ have not been saved?
Unless "not all Israel is Israel" also comes in here.
In the NT, are not only those in Christ the Israel of God?

The when is "until the full number of the Gentiles have come in."
My understanding would be that Paul envisioned that all Jews would come to faith. 11:13 seems to see salvation as contingent on faith.
Romans doesn't explicitly discuss what happens to non-Christians.

Because it's about righteousness from God, but it does treat of them in Romans 8:5-9.

Rom 3 implies some leeway for a kind of faith that doesn't fully understand. Thus I wouldn't write off all Jews. But for purposes of understanding Rom 9 - 11 I think we need to assume that God will save all of Israel by bringing all of Israel to faith, and that this hasn't happened yet.

I see Romans 3 as leaving leeway for no one, "all are unrighteousness, no one is righteous, not even one."
Righteousness for salvation is only from God by faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21-22).

I'm not seeing any actual carve-out for Israel. They have been placed on the same footing as all mankind, salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Not all Israel is Israel (Romans 9:6).

In Romans 9, I see Paul vindicating God's righteousness in rejecting Israel, by demonstrating God's pattern of separation/choice in his dealing with Israel:
"separation" (Isaac and Ishmael) based on God's choice of/promise to Sarah,
"separation" (Jacob and Esau) based on nothing but God's absolutely sovereign choice,
and now "separation" again (based on belief and unbelief),
fulfilling his promise to Israel in a believing remnant only, with God's choice of the Gentiles in their stead (Romans 11:19) . . .which is likewise a type/shadow of God's future greater choosing and separating in the new covenant (Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11; Romans 8:29-30).

 

[Hark]

Required to be born again, here are all born again verses for you, it is called looking forward pressing forward towards Christ ( not backwards into disbelief which is sin:

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

That is not how we are born again and that verse has nothing to do with salvation.

Your reference below does. Note the emboldened portion of that reference that it is by believing n Him, even in His name, is how we are saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Salvation is no by the will of man nor by the will of the flesh

Your reference below leaves much out on how one is born again.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus asked Jesus this question of how this can come about and Jesus explained to him that after His ascension which is after His crucifixion, anyone that believes in Him will be saved.

John 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Discipleship is separate from salvation; Jesus warned that not every believer that receives the seed will bear fruit.

1 John 3: 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The apostle John was addressing believers that were believing that sin was no longer sin to them and that they could live in sin for why he was correcting them that we are to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son as we are to confess our sins if we commit them.

To imply that we can never sin is denying the Lord's prayer we are to pray daily.

Some ( Christians forsaken the right way/false teachers as told) have ceased from sin,m some CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN..

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

I agree but not every believer has been discipled, taught in the word to bear fruit so that their joy may be full. Some sow to the flesh foolishly in reaping corruption while others are offended by the scripture in the ace of the evolution theory for why some no longer believe. Some worry in the face of the cares of this life for why they do not bear fruit but none of these negates their salvation; but they are at risk of being denied by Him unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily per Hebrews 12:1-2.

So there is a race to be run by faith in Jesus Christ in helping us to follow Him as this involves laying aside every weight & sin daily.

To say that a believer can never sin again after they have been saved is denying the Lord's prayer.

No one will believe you that you have never sinned after salvation. Putting off doing a good deed is sin and not just making boastful plans for tomorrow.

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Your emphasis on the believer to never sin in order to be born again and thus saved is void of our hope in Christ for following Him as well as denying Him that we are saved simply by believing in Him as the scripture plainly testifies. Discipleship is required for bearing fruit; not for obtaining salvation.