Preterism, both full & partial, are false.

[Maria Billingsley]

OK, please tell us why you think the great trib has already occurred. Remember, it's to be worldwide, and some of its events are set forth in Rev. 16.

Sure let's look at this by using the rule of hermeneutics.
The great tribulation appears in Matthew and Revelation. I have noted the who,what,where,when and why. This is a simple plain reading of scripture without a Dispensational lens.
Matthew:
Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the(where) buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things?(what) Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives (who) the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the(when) end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them:(why) “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver (who) you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore(when) when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
(when) Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Who was Jesus Christ of Nazareth speaking to: His Apostles.
Where was He speaking to them: In front of the Temple and at the Mt of Olives.
When was He speaking to them: First century Jerusalem and in the Apostels generation.
What was He speaking about: The end of the Temple age.
Why did He tell them this: The Apostels asked Him when the end of the age would be. He gave them several warnings as well as the escape route into the mountains.

This would be a partial Preterist view.
Blessings.

 

[Bob_1000]

How silly ! Jesus didn't say"Let the reader understand" just to fill space!

He meant “let the reader understand”, not “let the reader IGNORE the written words and make the words mean whatever he wants them to mean”.

 

[robycop3]

Sure let's look at this by using the rule of hermeneutics.
The great tribulation appears in Matthew and Revelation. I have noted the who,what,where,when and why. This is a simple plain reading of scripture without a Dispensational lens.
Matthew:
Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the(where) buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things?(what) Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives (who) the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the(when) end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered and said to them:(why) “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver (who) you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore(when) when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
(when) Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Who was Jesus Christ of Nazareth speaking to: His Apostles.
Where was He speaking to them: In front of the Temple and at the Mt of Olives.
When was He speaking to them: First century Jerusalem and in the Apostels generation.
What was He speaking about: The end of the Temple age.
Why did He tell them this: The Apostels asked Him when the end of the age be. He gave them several warnings as well as the escape route into the mountains.

This would be a partial Preterist view.
Blessings.

Nice try, but He also said, "Whoever reads, let him understand." Jesus knew His words would be written down for future generations to read.

So THIS reader understands the AOD spoken of by Daniel to be in the 160s BC when Seleucid ruler Antiochus Epiphanes entered the temple, set up a statue of Zeus in it, sacrificed a pig upon the altar, & replaced the priests with those of his own choosing.

We see a similar set of events set forth in Rev. 13. After the earlier one in the old temple, it did NOT occur again in it before it was destroyed. Thus, a new temple must be built in Jerusalem for it to occur in.

 

[robycop3]

He meant “let the reader understand”, not “let the reader IGNORE the written words and make the words mean whatever he wants them to mean”.

And that's EXACTLY what you're doing! You CANNOT get by the FACT that those events simply haven't yet occurred!

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Nice try, but He also said, "Whoever reads, let him understand." Jesus knew His words would be written down for future generations to read.

So THIS reader understands the AOD spoken of by Daniel to be in the 160s BC when Seleucid ruler Antiochus Epiphanes entered the temple, set up a statue of Zeus in it, sacrificed a pig upon the altar, & replaced the priests with those of his own choosing.

We see a similar set of events set forth in Rev. 13. After the earlier one in the old temple, it did NOT occur again in it before it was destroyed. Thus, a new temple must be built in Jerusalem for it to occur in.

Well, I am just laying this out through the plain reading of scripture. I am very familiar with your view as I held it for several decades. Thanks for engaging!

 

[Bob_1000]

And that's EXACTLY what you're doing! You CANNOT get by the FACT that those events simply haven't yet occurred!

Prove from the Bible, not your opinion, that Jesus didn’t return with all power and glory when he rose from the dead. What is Jesus LACKING in power and glory and authority right now?

Prove that redemption didn’t happen at the cross.

Prove that Jesus returns in water vapor rather than with his saints.

Prove that the abomination that made Jerusalem desolate wasn’t murdering Jesus.

 

[trophy33]

You entirely forgot, or purposely ignored, Jesus' words,"whoso readeth, let him understand". Jesus knew all His words would be written for future generations to read.

And you ignored Jesus' saying that the AOD was spoken of by Daniel the prophet. And we know the events of that AOD by Antiochus Epiphanes.
NEXT PITCH!

The words are not of Jesus, but of the gospel writer.

Problem solved.

 

[ozso]

Scripture plainly sets forth what must occur in the future.

Why become deeply enmeshed regarding future events you probably won't see in your earthly lifetime?

 

[Hammster]

But then there's the reality of the limits of 1st-century knowledge. God said knowledge will greatly increase.

So are you abandoning proper hermeneutics? Just wanting to know.

 

[jgr]

THE beast/antichrist, the most-antichrist of all time, has not yet come. There have been, and are, many false prophets. But THE most-false of all false prophets, the beast's deputy, hasn't come, either.

So you are defending your falsified futurized antichrist, contrived by an apostate 16th-century Jesuit counter-reformationist, contrary to 1 John 2:18,22 and 2 John 1:7.

If you can cite Scripture which disproves 1 John 2:18,22 and 2 John 1:7, please do so.

There is no "beast/antichrist, the most-antichrist of all time" in Scripture.

That is a figment of dispensational hallucination.

 

[robycop3]

Prove from the Bible, not your opinion, that Jesus didn’t return with all power and glory when he rose from the dead. What is Jesus LACKING in power and glory and authority right now?

Easy! The first ones to see Him when He was resurrected were the women who went to His tomb that morning. No mention of great glory. he evidently appeared much the same to them as He'd appeared before.

Prove that redemption didn’t happen at the cross.

I never said it didn't.

Prove that Jesus returns in water vapor rather than with his saints.

He and the saints that will come with Him shall be in the clouds.

Prove that the abomination that made Jerusalem desolate wasn’t murdering Jesus.

My, MY, you like to twist things around! You know full well the Scriptures read "abomination of desolation", not desolation of Jerusalem.
Jesus mentions the AOD spoken of by Daniel, and I posted its events earlier. No desolation of J in that event. Wasn't a bit hard to prove!

 

[robycop3]

The words are not of Jesus, but of the gospel writer.

Problem solved.

But the words wouldn't be there if Jesus didn't want'em there.

 

[robycop3]

Why become deeply enmeshed regarding future events you probably won't see in your earthly lifetime?

Because it's important to both silence skeptics and to give people hope.

 

[robycop3]

So are you abandoning proper hermeneutics? Just wanting to know.

We must remember we're viewing Scriptural narrations with hindsight. We must remember the small database the 1st century people had.

 

[robycop3]

So you are defending your falsified futurized antichrist, contrived by an apostate 16th-century Jesuit counter-reformationist, contrary to 1 John 2:18,22 and 2 John 1:7.

Actually, he comes from Scripture.

If you can cite Scripture which disproves 1 John 2:18,22 and 2 John 1:7, please do so.

There are still antichrists coming, that is, anyone not FOR Christ. What's wrong is your INTERP. The end was that of Jerusalem (temporarily) andthe temple, and the relative freedom of the Jews.

There is no "beast/antichrist, the most-antichrist of all time" in Scripture.

That is a figment of dispensational hallucination.

So, 2 Thess. 2:3-4 is wrong, and also Rev. 13, 16, & 20?

 

[jgr]

Actually, he comes from Scripture.

Actually, he comes from dispensational hallucinations.

Originating from a falsified futurized antichrist, contrived by an apostate 16th-century Jesuit counter-reformationist.

The end was that of Jerusalem (temporarily) andthe temple, and the relative freedom of the Jews.

Paste associated verses and highlight the word "antichrist" in each one.

So, 2 Thess. 2:3-4 is wrong, and also Rev. 13, 16, & 20?

Paste the verses and highlight the word "antichrist" in each one.

 

[Hammster]

We must remember we're viewing Scriptural narrations with hindsight. We must remember the small database the 1st century people had.

They had all they needed. So we should also have all we need. Scripture interprets scripture, unless you want to have a dispensational view. Then anything can interpret scripture.

 

[ozso]

Because it's important to both silence skeptics and to give people hope.

Hope of what?

 

[trophy33]

But the words wouldn't be there if Jesus didn't want'em there.

So they are there. It proves nothing.

 

[Berean Tim]

I looked up 'great tribulation' in the scripture. It really only occurs in Matthew's gospel.

Matthew 24:19-21
But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation.

Looks to me anyway, that Jesus is referring to the demolition of the temple and Jerusalem.

If Jesus was about to return, why would Jesus say 'But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath'. If it was the end of all things He would not say that.

Obviously, Jesus is talking about the judgement of Israel.

I reject your interpretation of the 'great tribulation' as a world wide event.

Try reading both Matthew 24 and Luke 21, there are two distinct end time events. One Israel and one the world.

If it's only Israel, why were the Thessalonians so worried about it. They were quite a distance from Israel. 2 Thessalonians 2