Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

[Der Alte]

All,
An alternative way of reading scripture than the above way is Lectio Divina (literally "divine reading"). It's a way of becoming immersed in the Scriptures very personally. It draws on the way Jews read the Haggadah, a text read during Passover that retells the Exodus story, where they try to imagine actually being there, relating to God at that time, and so in a sense reliving the experience rather than simply reciting the story.

The fallacy with this is every heterodox group around has their own "lectio Divina" and surprise, surprise their "divine reading" lines up perfectly with the teachings of their particular group.

A description from Wikipedia:
"In Western Christianity, Lectio Divina is a traditional monastic practice of scriptural reading, meditation and prayer intended to promote communion with God and to increase the knowledge of God's word. In the view of one commentator, it does not treat scripture as texts to be studied, but as the living word."

You have got to be kidding. Wiki is about as reliable as the scribbling on a public facility wall. Anybody can add, change, delete anything without review. I have done it, and undone it, to prove to skeptics a few times.

I'm sure we've all experienced the Bible as being the "living word". Sometimes when you read scripture a verse jumps off the page at you and seems to speak directly to your heart. Lectio Divina is sometimes described as reading scripture with the “ear of the heart.” and it's a way to connect to God. * * *

See first reply above.
How about this if one desires to read the most correct translation of the T'anakh/OT consult the Jewish Publication society [JPS] translation. Who better than the native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars who translated either the 1917 or 1985 edition know the correct translation of Hebrew words..
For Greek who better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible know the correct translation of the Greek words.
Both translations are available online free. Hew to the line and let the chips fall where they may.
OT
Breslov References & Citations - Genesis 1:1-31

Book of Shemot (Exodus)
NT
http://fortsmithorthodox.org/NEW TESTAMENT.pdf

 

[Lazarus Short]

I am sorry my friend but that is way to much copy and pasting for me to read.

I stand by what I posted.

Too bad, as I spent a lot of time and effort on that chapter, and it is one of the shorter chapters. Shall I boil it down for you?

 

[ozso]

.

 

[ozso]

You do what you want to do.

Now in reality..... you are a Universalist......is that not correct?

That is incorrect. Universalism a subject that I learned about. I learned about Native Americans too, but that doesn't make me one.

As such you have made the decision to believe that EVERYONE goes to heaven in the end which is exactly opposite of what Jesus Himself said.

Also incorrect.

Now why would me or anyone be "Demeaning" by stating what you believe?????

Because what you've been saying has been incorrect and insulting.

I am only stating the fact of what you have said. That is simply stating the truth.

No you have been coming to conclusions based on assumption.

Asking me to speak to you in a way that is acceptable to you is like asking me to not say "In Jesus name" at the end of a prayer in public.

If you're saying that you're unable to speak to others in a manner that's acceptable, then you should quit this forum or be banned, because speaking to and especially about others in an acceptable manner is clearly laid out in the terms and rules of this forum. I'm not asking for anything that you aren't already supposed to abide by.

 

[ozso]

Thank you for your thoughts. May I ask you this.......Jesus Christ is not mentioned anywhere in Genesis either or in the Creation story. With your logic then He does not exist. Does that make any sense to you at all.

The name Jesus Christ is not mentioned in Genesis, but the person himself is. Whereas when it comes to hell, neither the name of hell/hades nor the place itself is mentioned in Genesis.

 

[Der Alte]

The name Jesus Christ is not mentioned in Genesis, but the person himself is. Whereas when it comes to hell, neither the name of hell/hades nor the place itself is mentioned in Genesis.

Relevance?

 

[Major1]

The name Jesus Christ is not mentioned in Genesis, but the person himself is. Whereas when it comes to hell, neither the name of hell/hades nor the place itself is mentioned in Genesis.

Again as said to someone else......That is not the point.

You can not claim the WORD Hell is not in the Bible and then say the WORD Jesus is in Genesis.

 

[Major1]

That is incorrect. Universalism a subject that I learned about. I learned about Native Americans too, but that doesn't make me one.



Also incorrect.



Because what you've been saying has been incorrect and insulting.



No you have been coming to conclusions based on assumption.



If you're saying that you're unable to speak to others in a manner that's acceptable, then you should quit this forum or be banned, because speaking to and especially about others in an acceptable manner is clearly laid out in the terms and rules of this forum. I'm not asking for anything that you aren't already supposed to abide by.

I have not said ONE word that is banned by the forum rules.
I have not insulted one in any way.

Just because someone says that the things you say are not found in the Bible is NOT insulting.

It may be convicting and it may be challenging but it is certainly not insulting.

 

[Major1]

.

Excellant post!

 

[Major1]

Too bad, as I spent a lot of time and effort on that chapter, and it is one of the shorter chapters. Shall I boil it down for you?

I am sorry for your efforts but long is long.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I am sorry for your efforts but long is long.

I assume you've read your Bible - it is very long too, and with some very boring parts. Most of that [too] long post consisted of Bible verses, so I'm guessing it is my conclusions you do not want to read. Maybe you think I was finding too much fault with the KJV, and yes, I have some problems with it - I consider it to be a flawed masterpiece.

Read or don't read: your choice. But hey, what's not to like?

 

[ozso]

Again as said to someone else......That is not the point.

You can not claim the WORD Hell is not in the Bible and then say the WORD Jesus is in Genesis.

Lazarus Short said, "Hell is not mentioned in ANY of the places where the Creation is mentioned or described". I believe he meant the place rather than the specific word "hell". In other words, the place isn't mentioned in the list of things God created.

 

[ozso]

I have not said ONE word that is banned by the forum rules.
I have not insulted one in any way.

Just because someone says that the things you say are not found in the Bible is NOT insulting.

It may be convicting and it may be challenging but it is certainly not insulting.

You're correct, "the things you say are not found in the Bible" is not insulting, but that is not how you have been wording your critiques. In the future I'll just submit further instances for the staff to review.

 

[ozso]

Relevance?

The relevance is Major1 misunderstood what Lazarus Short said.

 

[Major1]

You're correct, "the things you say are not found in the Bible" is not insulting, but that is not how you have been wording your critiques. In the future I'll just submit further instances for the staff to review.

That sounds good. I am relieved that you agree you were not insulted.

 

[Major1]

Lazarus Short said, "Hell is not mentioned in ANY of the places where the Creation is mentioned or described". I believe he meant the place rather than the specific word "hell". In other words, the place isn't mentioned in the list of things God created.

I agree with that. Never said that I didn't.

All I said was neither was the specific and literal name of Jesus Christ.

No more and no less. Just a statement of fact.

 

[Major1]

I assume you've read your Bible - it is very long too, and with some very boring parts. Most of that [too] long post consisted of Bible verses, so I'm guessing it is my conclusions you do not want to read. Maybe you think I was finding too much fault with the KJV, and yes, I have some problems with it - I consider it to be a flawed masterpiece.

Read or don't read: your choice. But hey, what's not to like?

I did not want to read your long post to support an opinion I do not agree with.

If I post something as long as You did with Scriptures proving the existence of Hell.....would you take the time to read it when you already know you do not accept it??
Truthfully?????

 

[Lazarus Short]

I did not want to read your long post to support an opinion I do not agree with.

If I post something as long as You did with Scriptures proving the existence of Hell.....would you take the time to read it when you already know you do not accept it??
Truthfully?????

We can just agree to disagree. What's not to like?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Lazarus Short said, "Hell is not mentioned in ANY of the places where the Creation is mentioned or described". I believe he meant the place rather than the specific word "hell". In other words, the place isn't mentioned in the list of things God created.

What I meant is that "hell" is not mentioned in any of the Bible verses having to do with the Creation of the Cosmos, either in whole or in part. What follows is that God's Creation is a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell, with us as a contested prize to be fought over by both sides. Do you see how that dualism encroaches on God's absolute Sovereignty?

God.

Cosmos.

Earth.

Man.

Animals & plants.

What's not to like?

 

[Saint Steven]

My point Steve is that you can not have it both ways!

I certainly can. They are two separate issues.
And the correct spelling is "cannot". (one word)