Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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Lazarus Short

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There is the idea, found nowhere in the Scriptures (that I know of), that a person's eternal fate is set at the moment of their death. Um...where have I heard that before?

You've perhaps heard of Natal Astrology? It posits that a person's life will follow a certain course, or be influenced by the positions of various heavenly bodies at the moment of their birth. Yeah, and it's been debunked. I know, I know, anything you can name has been debunked by someone, somewhere...or so they claim. I have noticed that the horoscopes in the daily newspaper are distributed by the same syndicate which handles the cartoon strips, but I digress.

Seriously, is there really any difference between natal astrology and this common christian notion? Only the endpoints, and the influencers vary. So you can live badly for seventy or so years, pull a deathbed confession, and be square with God? No further wood, hay or stubble to deal with? An angel hastily scribbles your name into the margins of the book of life? I doubt it. We should be humble enough to admit that we don't know what happens after death, and how God will deal with a particular person after the resurrection...but I am more than hopeful. Again: what's not to like?
 
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Der Alte

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Indeed. I would be interested in seeing the scripture that proves there are no further chances after death. It's wishful thinking that there aren't although it's a very odd thing to wish for!
Do you know what an "argument from silence" is? Here is an example "Prove to me that flying pink unicorns don't exist." The absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.
For many years after Australia was "invaded" by the British stories of a small furry mammal with a duck like bill, webbed feet were dismissed as fiction. Someone even brought back a stuffed animal the hoity toity scholars pooh poohed it as being put together from other animals. It was not until a living Platypus was brought back from Oz was their existence acknowledged.
But since you asked.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psalms 88:10-11
10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
JPS Pro 24:20
(20) For there will be no future to the evil man, the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.
Ephesians 2:12
(12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
1Thessalonians 4:13
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.​
 
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Major1

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Oh course there is a judgment in the afterlife. That doesn't prove that God will not be merciful. People tend to forget that one of the options in judgment is mercy. AND that even after consequences there is life. And your other references all work with UR as well.

God so loved what? (the world) If you confess with your mouth what? (you will be saved) Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be what? (saved) No of these limits salvation to this life.

John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31

NO sir. There is NO mercy after death.

If so.........Post those Scriptures instead of opinions.

John 3:16 and Romans 10:8 and Acts 16:31 have nothing to do whatsoever with merccy after death so why use them Steve???
 
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Major1

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@Saint Steven, how many times have you had Hebrews 9:27 delivered to you?

The thing is Major, Christian universalists believe in judgement after death. You should come up with scripture that actually goes against their views.

I also believe that the judgment is AFTER death MAXX because that is exactly what the Scriptue says I posted for you.

Rev. 20:12
“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne” .

Matt. 25:41.......
, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels”.

Everlasting Fire! A lake that burns with fire and brimstone!! Furthermore he said, in Matt. 25:30......
“There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth”.

How long will that punishment last? Christ stamped the word “eternal” upon the duration of the sinner’s punishment in Matt. 25:46.....
“And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal’ life”.

Eternal punishment for the wicked and eternal reward for the saints of God.

You can debate with me all you want and come up with every excuse you can think up but none of it will dimmish the word of God.
 
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Major1

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Unfortunately, the opposite of rationalism is irrationalism. (your position) Do you really claim that EVERYONE that has gone into the afterlife has had the opportunity to know and either accept or reject Christ?

What is the current population and death rate in China? How many went to the afterlife today with no knowledge whatsoever of Christ?

Saint Steven said:
This is the sort of rubbish that is used to blame the victim of ECT. Countless billions have gone into the afterlife with no knowledge of Jesus at all. And no opportunity to even reject him. The same God that requires us to love our enemies will also love his own.

How many does not matter Steve. What matters is that they were guility.

Romans 1:18-20....
" For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
 
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Major1

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I've lost count. - lol
It doesn't prove their point against UR.
"... then to face judgment." And then what?

The Lake of Fire.

‘And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.’

, Revelation 20:15
 
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Hmm

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Oh course there is a judgment in the afterlife. That doesn't prove that God will not be merciful. People tend to forget that one of the options in judgment is mercy.

Exactly, Team Hell jumps on any mention of judgement and claim it must result in either eternal punishment or a clean pass. It's a good thing our human judges don't operate this way!
 
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Der Alte

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Yes, they don't think that God is capable of holding them (and everyone) up high - they can only be high by standing on the shoulders of the damned. Weird eh?
This is the most objectionable, inflammatory, rubbish I have ever read/heard!
Name me one pastor/teacher, 2 or more would be better, who believes when Jesus said "eternal punishment" that is exactly what He meant, who does not preach/teach "God so loved the WORLD that He gave his one and only Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Whosever means everyone who lives and breathes.
 
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Major1

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There's a lot of anonymous people here who talk about their credentials. Often in a manner which suggests that those whom they're talking to aren't on even terms with them. And here's a thing to be quite frank, there are those on CF who amaze me with the depth of their knowledge. So far, you're not one of them. Like I said you're presenting 101 theology. This tact that you're taking is only good at avoiding having an in-depth discussion and going nowhere.



That is so hackneyed. If I don't agree with or I debate the theology and doctrine you've embraced, then that means I am rejecting scripture and rejecting God and so on and so forth. I've heard that before you know. And from those who's doctrine and theology you most likely do not agree with.

Very very true which is why I refuse to talk about it.

Yes......I agree. When YOU reject Scripture then you are are rejecting God. I am sure you have heard that because it is Scripturally valid.

I am not concerned that you do not accept me an an authority and may I say that the feeling is mutual. Actually I am nothing more than an old fashioned country boy who learned a long time ago to simplify the word of God so that even the smallest could understand it.
However....that is a personal comment which should not be placed into this discussion.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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And if you have trouble understanding this one, our good friend @public hermit has written an excellent explanation. See below. Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Corinthians 15:22 explained by Public Hermit

This is essentially a conditional statement.
It is upon the basis that all die in Adam that all also are made alive in Christ. Or better, if all had not died in Adam, then there would have been no need to make all (or any) alive in Christ.

If all died in Adam, then all are made alive in Christ.

The same set of people are being referenced in both the antecedent and the consequent. So, if "all" doesn't mean all in the consequent, then it doesn't mean all in the antecedent.

Modus tollens: If all are not made alive in Christ, then all did not die in Adam.

But, of course, all did die in Adam (according to the fans of eternal torment).

Therefore, all means all in both instances.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

:doh1:
 
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Major1

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Exactly, Team Hell jumps on any mention of judgement and claim it must result in either eternal punishment or a clean pass. It's a good thing our human judges don't operate this way!

I would correct your comment by saying that Bible believers jump on any mention of judgment and AGREE with the Bible that sin will be judged with eternal torment not because they like it but because God said so.
 
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Major1

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A man like John Calvin? What a good student of the Bible and Christianity does is examine and weigh various Christian doctrines and theologies. Quite a lot of what you say is pretty much scripted. You're not saying anything that others, especially those from your school of learning, haven't already said word for word.

Then that is a good thing and you are not hearing anything different that would confuse you,
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I'm crying that someone has attempted to buttress a tortured argument by bringing in something that my buddy @public hermit has apparently stated ... ... ... o_O

It's like, this charade between U.R. and ECT never ends. Reading this thread is also like being subjected to Chinese water torture ...
 
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Der Alte

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I also believe that the judgment is AFTER death MAXX because that is exactly what the Scriptue says I posted for you.
Rev. 20:12
“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne” .
Matt. 25:41.......
, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels”.
Everlasting Fire! A lake that burns with fire and brimstone!! Furthermore he said, in Matt. 25:30......
“There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth”.
How long will that punishment last? Christ stamped the word “eternal” upon the duration of the sinner’s punishment in Matt. 25:46.....
“And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal’ life”.
Eternal punishment for the wicked and eternal reward for the saints of God.
You can debate with me all you want and come up with every excuse you can think up but none of it will dimmish the word of God.
“aionios” occurs 72x in the N.T.
“aionios” is translated world only 5 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is correctly translated eternal 42 times in the N.T.
“aionios” is correctly translated everlasting 25 times in the N.T.
Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times, Jesus never used “aionios” to refer something ordinary/mundane which was not/could not be “eternal.”
= = = = = = = = = =
In twenty four [24] of the following verses aion and aionios are defined/described as eternal, everlasting, eternity etc, by paralleling or juxtaposition with other adjectives or adjectival phrases.
= = = = = = = = = =
…..Some people claim that “aion/aionios” never means eternity/eternal because they sometimes refer to things which are not eternal.
However, neither word is ever defined/described, by other adjectives or adjectival phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, in the New Testament, as in the following verses.
…..Jesus used “aionios” twenty eight [28] times. He never used “aionios” to refer to anything ordinary or mundane that was not or could not be eternal.
…..In the following ten verses Jesus defines “aionios” as “eternal.”
[1] Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign [basileusei][Vb] over the house of Jacob for ever; [aionas] and of his kingdom [basileias][Nn] there shall be no end.[telos]​
In this verse the reign/basileusei, which is the verb form of the word, is "aionas" and of the kingdom/basileias, the noun form of the same word, "there shall be no end.” “Aionas” by definition here means eternal.
[2] John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[aionios]​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “aionios life” with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[3] John 10:28
(28) I give them eternal [aionios] life, and they shall never [aion] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand”, “never perish.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’/never perish” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”
[4]John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [aionion] life.
[5] John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [aionion] life.​
In these two verses Jesus parallels “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
[6]John 5:24
(24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [aionios] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.​
In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” with “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aionios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
[7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [aionios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposed aionios life with “shall not see life.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition aionios means eternal.
[8]John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never [ου μη/ou mé] thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting [aionios] life.​
In this verse Jesus paralleled aionios with “shall [ου μη/ou mé][fn] never thirst.” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aionios means eternal. See footnote [fn] on “ou mé” below.
[9]John 6:27
(27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [aionios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.​
In this verse Jesus contrasted “aionios meat” with “meat that perishes” If aionios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aionios means eternal.
[10]John 8:51
(51) Very truly [amen amen] I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ou mé eis ton aiona][fn] see death."​
In this verse Jesus juxtaposes “unto aion” with “never see death.” By definition “aion” means eternity.

[Character Limit. Continued next post]
 
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Der Alte

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[Previous post continued]

Paul used the word “aionios” eighteen [18] times. It is translated “eternal/everlasting” 16 times and world only 2 times. In the following 12 verses Paul defines/describes “aionios” as eternal.
[11]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[12]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[13]Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[14]Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
In Rom 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26, Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, refers to God as “aionios.” Paul has used “aidios” synonymous with “aionios.” In this verse by definition “aionios” means eternal, everlasting.
[15]2 Corinthians 4:17-18
(17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal [aionios] weight of glory;
(18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal;[proskairos] but the things which are not seen are eternal [aionios]​
In this passage Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “for a moment,” vs. 4, and “temporal,” vs. 5. “Age(s)” an indeterminate finite period, it is not the opposite of “for a moment”/”temporal/temporary” “eternal” is. “Aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[16]2 Corinthians 5:1
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal [aionios] in the heavens.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios house” with “earthly house which is destroyed.” Is God going to replace our destroyed earthly house with a house which only lasts a little longer and will be destroyed at the end of an age? The aionios house is not destroyed, the opposite of “is destroyed.” Thus, “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
[17]1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting [aionios]​
In this verse Paul paralleled “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
[18]Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; [fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [aionios]​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios” with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
[19]Romans 2:7
(7) To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, [apftharsia] he will give eternal [aionios] life.​
In this verse Paul parallels “aionios” with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, believers do not seek for “a finite period,” and “immortality” at the same time. But they can seek for “eternal life” and “immortality” at the same time. Thus by definition “aionios life” here means “eternal life.”
[20]1 Timothy 1:17.
(17) Now unto the King eternal, [aion] immortal, [aphthartos] invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aionios]. Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “aion” with “immortal.” “Aion” cannot mean “age(s),” a finite period and immortal at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[21]Romans 5:21
(21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal [aionios] life by Jesus Christ our Lord.​
In this verse Paul juxtaposes “aionios life” with death. “A finite period life” is not opposite death. “Aionios life” by definition here means ‘eternal life.”
[22]Ephesians 3:21
(21) to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever [tou aionios] and ever! [ton aionion] Amen.​
In this verse Paul parallels “tou aionios ton aionion” with “throughout all generations.” "Age(s)" a finite period cannot refer to "all generations." By definition “tou aionios ton aionion” means forever and ever.
[23]Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [aion] he has an unchangeable [aparabatos] priesthood.​
In this verse “aion” is parallel with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue for only a “finite period” and simultaneously be “unchangeable.” Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
[24]1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.​
In verse 23 Peter parallels “word of God” with “imperishable.” The same writer, Peter, in the same writing 1 Peter, in verse 25 writes the word of God “endures eis ton aiona/unto eternity. ” The word of God is not a finite age long but imperishable. Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity”
[25]1 Peter 5:10
(10) And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal [aionion] glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, [oligon] will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.​
In this verse Peter contrasted “aionios” with “little while” Jesus does not give His followers a finite period of glory then they eventually die. Thus “aionios” here, by definition, means “eternal.”
[26]Revelation 14:11
(11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:[eis aionas aionon] and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​
In this verse “aionas aionon torment” is paralleled with “no rest day or night.” If “aionas, aionon” means “a finite period” at some time they would rest, “Aionas, aionon” by definition here means “forever and forever.”
= = = = = = =
Footnotes ου μη/ou mé
●The double negative [ου μη] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.[Vincent word studies]
● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή se σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.
 
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Hmm

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Do you know what an "argument from silence" is? Here is an example "Prove to me that flying pink unicorns don't exist." The absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.
For many years after Australia was "invaded" by the British stories of a small furry mammal with a duck like bill, webbed feet were dismissed as fiction. Someone even brought back a stuffed animal the hoity toity scholars pooh poohed it as being put together from other animals. It was not until a living Platypus was brought back from Oz was their existence acknowledged.
But since you asked.
John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

...

But you are making the positive case that “no further chances after death” is a doctrine and therefore you need to have scriptural support for it. I have to say, I didn't find the passages you quoted very convincing.

Of course, you can say the same to me and ask me for evidence for the opposing doctrine that there are further chances after death. If you did, I would cite these passages in support.of the position:

in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water
I Peter 3:19-20

and

For this is the reason the gospel was proclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as God does.
I Peter 4:6

However, while I think these passages do support further chances, I think what's more forceful are all the other passages that we've seen that support universalism. I don't think there's any need to repeat them here.

So, my belief in further chances comes from my belief that there is strong support for universalism and, and here you will agree with me, that there is also strong evidence that we must whole-heartedly embrace Christ - to bow our knee and confess that Christ is Lord - before we can be saved.

The only way I can see how these two thing can be reconciled.is if we are given further chances after death. So this is more of an indirect rather than direct case for further chances. My belief in universalism is not based on my belief in further chances but rather it's the other way round.
 
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I'm crying that someone has attempted to buttress a tortured argument by bringing in something that my buddy @public hermit has apparently stated ... ... ...

Us universalists don't believe in torturing anything, including logical arguments.
 
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But you are making the positive case that “no further chances after death” is a doctrine and therefore you need to have scriptural support for it. I have to say, I didn't find the passages you quoted very convincing.
Show me where I am wrong!
Of course, you can say the same to me and ask me for evidence for the opposing doctrine that there are further chances after death. If you did, I would cite these passages in support.of the position:
in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water
I Peter 3:19-20 * * *
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 * * * quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​
This out-of-context proof text has been refuted many times.
"grave/hell" is never called prison and prison is never called grave/hell.
anywhere in scripture.
Jesus' earthly ministry did not include preaching to the dead anywhere.
Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​
There ain't no "poor,""brokenhearted,""captives,""blind,""or "bruised" in the grave or hell, only dead bodies.
The word translated "captives" literally means "prisoners of war." There ain't no prisoners of anything in the grave/hell.
If the preaching in 1 Pet 3:18-20 was for the salvation of the dead then it was an abject failure because only eight people were saved, Noah and his family and they were alive not dead when they were saved.
 
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