Who are the Elect?

[DamianWarS]

Are the elect all those chosen by God to receive salvation?

Or are the elect only those chosen by God to serve a certain purpose, mission, ministry?

these are fairly loaded questions and I think the best answer is "don't worry about it" and "follow Jesus". God can sort out who his elect is and certainly, nothing I say will change that.

 

[Hammster]

God, in His Sovereignty, chooses to save those who choose to respond to the promise of Acts 2:38-39.

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.​

Where does is say that those where elect, or non-elect?

 

[John Mullally]

Where does is say that those where elect, or non-elect?

God chooses to save those who respond to His promise in Acts 2:38-39. By your own definition in Post #27, Election means choosing. Therefore, God, in His Sovereignty, Elects to save those who respond to His promise in Acts 2:38-39.

 

[Hammster]

God chooses to save those who respond to His promise in Acts 2:38-39. By your own definition in Post #27, Election means choosing. Therefore, God, in His Sovereignty, Elects to save those who respond to His promise in Acts 2:38-39.

The problem is that your passage doesn’t say that. It does, however, say that He saves as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.

 

[John Mullally]

The problem is that your passage doesn’t say that. It does, however, say that He saves as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.

The promise is conditional - if you fulfill the conditions you receive the promise. If you do not fulfill the condition in verse 38, nether the promise nor the call do you any good.

Many who were called in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet, did not attend.

 

[com7fy8]

Are the elect all those chosen by God to receive salvation?

Or are the elect only those chosen by God to serve a certain purpose, mission, ministry?

First, I would say, the elect are the ones God has chosen to begin in Jesus. Then God does what He wants, with each one having purpose and mission and ministry.

So, it is both.

 

[Hammster]

The promise is conditional - if you fulfill the conditions you receive the promise. If you do not fulfill the condition in verse 38, nether the promise nor the call do you any good.

Many who were called in the Parable of the Wedding Banquet, did not attend.

Verse 38 isn’t a condition, it’s a description of those God called to Himself. If you are wanting to switch passages, that’s fine. But you can’t just arbitrarily throw select verses together.

 

[John Mullally]

Verse 38 isn’t a condition, it’s a description of those God called to Himself.

Verse 38 is written as a conditional promise and verse 39 refers to it as "For this promise".

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
​

Breaking down the conditional promise of Verse 38:
The Condition is: Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
The Promise for meeting the condition is: for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

​

If you are wanting to switch passages, that’s fine. But you can’t just arbitrarily throw select verses together.

Verse 39 is saying that the conditional promise in verse 38 is universal and goes on for many generations. Jesus (the Lord our God) commands the Body of Christ (His agency on the earth) to put forth the call to all men in the Great Commission. Talking about arbitrary - you seem to think that the condition to receive the promise is "as many as the Lord our God will call". That's an odd rendering of the text.

 

[atpollard]

Are the elect all those chosen by God to receive salvation?

Or are the elect only those chosen by God to serve a certain purpose, mission, ministry?

Romans 11:4 But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.”

the elect are ... the vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory.
(it is not the clay that makes the difference, it is the Potter.)

 

[Hammster]

Verse 38 is written as a conditional promise and verse 39 refers to it as "For this promise".

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
​

Breaking down the conditional promise of Verse 38:
The Condition is: Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
The Promise for meeting the condition is: for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

​

Verse 39 is saying that the conditional promise in verse 38 is universal and goes on for many generations. Jesus (the Lord our God) commands the Body of Christ (His agency on the earth) to put forth the call to all men in the Great Commission. Talking about arbitrary - you seem to think that the condition to receive the promise is "as many as the Lord our God will call". That's an odd rendering of the text.

I’m not sure how you are reading this wrong. The promise is to as many as the Lord our God will call.

 

[John Mullally]

I’m not sure how you are reading this wrong. The promise is to as many as the Lord our God will call.

I am sure the simple folk there understood what Peter was saying. Those crying "What shall we then do", listened intently and counted the cost as to whether they were willing to repent and be baptized (which would trigger reproach from family and countrymen) in order to receive salvation (remission of sins & receipt of the Holy Spirit). Some like the apostles gave up everything. Others like the rich young ruler (who turned away from following Jesus) understood the call and rejected it.

There is no need to feign ignorance, as it was understood by the crowd what Peter was saying.

 

[Hammster]

I am sure the simple folk there understood what Peter was saying. Those crying "What shall we then do", listened intently and counted the cost as to whether they were willing to repent and be baptized (which would trigger reproach from family and countrymen) in order to receive salvation (remission of sins & receipt of the Holy Spirit). Some like the apostles gave up everything. Others like the rich young ruler (who turned away from following Jesus) understood the call and rejected it. I doubt anyone was pondering foreknowledge or predestination. In general, aren't we supposed to interpret the text according to how the people in that day understood it.

Peter did not flat-out say: If God wants you to be saved, you will be - as that is not part of the Great Commission.

He did say that as many as God would call would be saved. Here’s another way he could have said it that might clear this up.


As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself, the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off.”

 

[Clare73]

Are the elect all those chosen by God to receive salvation?

Or are the elect only those chosen by God to serve a certain purpose, mission, ministry?

Depends on what they are elected to. . ."elect" usually refers to chosen to receive salvation. If it refers to some other, the context will indicate to whom it is referrig.

 

[ozso]

It's not hopeless. But hold yourself to the standard of the gospel:

Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

With that in mind, give us all of the reasons you will be spared.

That's all about apostacy and falling away though. We can't get too confident regarding our future status or else we might become complacent enough to actually fall away. I've listed to Kallistos Ware talk about this. That's why I asked if you died at this very moment.

 

[John Mullally]

He did say that as many as God would call would be saved.

Acts 2 does not say that. You really need to ask yourself how the people of that day would have heard the message.

Here’s another way he could have said it that might clear this up.

As many as the Lord our God will call to Himself, the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off.”

"the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off as many as the Lord our God will call” in verse 39 states that the promise of verse 38 extends to today. The call goes out with the preaching of the Gospel (refer to Romans 10). Hearing the call is not sufficient. The required conditions (first half of verse 38) are still required to receive the benefit (second half of verse 38).

Health insurance may make you eligible to benefit from a particular medication that you could otherwise not afford - but it won't benefit you if don't meet the required condition (picking it up and taking it as directed).

You assume God strictly limits the call because He only desires a predetermined set of people to be saved, whereas 1 Timothy 2 says that God desires all to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.​

 

[Jake Arsenal]

@Jake Arsenal - You have an interesting profile icon! Humorous; yet ironically sad in this day and age!

Satire can cause a person to reevaluate their understanding of a matter.

 

[Hammster]

Acts 2 does not say that. You really need to ask yourself how the people of that day would have heard the message.

"the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off as many as the Lord our God will call” in verse 39 states that the promise of verse 38 extends to today. The call goes out with the preaching of the Gospel (refer to Romans 10). Hearing the call is not sufficient. The required conditions (first half of verse 38) are still required to receive the benefit (second half of verse 38).

Health insurance may make you eligible to benefit from a particular medication that you could otherwise not afford - but it won't benefit you if don't meet the required condition (picking it up and taking it as directed).

You assume God strictly limits the call because He only desires a predetermined set of people to be saved, whereas 1 Timothy 2 says that God desires all to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.​

Can we stick to one passage? It’s hard to keep up when you take other verses out of context to support your earlier misused verse.

 

[John Mullally]

Can we stick to one passage? It’s hard to keep up when you take other verses out of context to support your earlier misused verse.

When the crowd in Acts 2:37 cried "What shall we do?", you seem to be saying that there is nothing that can be done - everyone's eternal destiny has been predestined per Post #52 because Acts 2:38-39 teaches that "As many as God would call would be saved". I guess I just cannot see that.

The practical and obvious answer to the question given by Peter was to: Do the first part of verse 38, which is understood to qualify one to receive the benefit of the second part of verse 38, and then come join the church (verse 41).

 

[Hammster]

When the crowd in Acts 2:37 cried "What shall we do?", you seem to be saying that there is nothing that can be done - everyone's eternal destiny has been predestined per Post #52 because Acts 2:38-39 teaches that "As many as God would call would be saved". I guess I just cannot see that.

The practical and obvious answer to the question given by Peter was to: Do the first part of verse 38, which is understood to qualify one to receive the benefit of the second part of verse 38, and then come join the church (verse 41).

In those three four verses (38-41), where is election mentioned? Or regeneration? Or justification?

The reason I’m asking is that you are using a narrative to try to work this all out. Narratives generally explain what happened, but not why. However, this one does explain why, you are just choosing to ignore it.

 

[The Righterzpen]

That's all about apostacy and falling away though. We can't get too confident regarding our future status or else we might become complacent enough to actually fall away. I've listed to Kallistos Ware talk about this. That's why I asked if you died at this very moment.

Well if you consider what Ephesians 1:4 says about the elect having been chosen from the foundation of the world. Apostasy doesn't come from complacency. It comes from never having been regenerated in the first place. Jesus said that all the Father would give him would come. He'd lose nothing but raise "it" up on the last day. (John 6:34-41 - I think that passage entails more than just redeemed people. The cosmos is also part of the redemption plan. But also it's clear from the context of that passage that there are those who do not respond because they are not elect.)

If you get on a site like "Bible Gateway" and look up the phrase "foundation of the world" there's some really interesting passages there that deal with a spectrum of subjects related to God's plan.

So yes, I think it's wise that people "examine themselves at to whether or not they are in the faith"; but also with an understanding that the elect will "automatically" be doing this, because it's part of what being regenerated and indwelt by the Holy Spirit will cause in someone.

Because we all become "complacent" at some point or another. We all become "comfortable" with where we might be at any given point in life. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. People who've been redeemed and in the exercise of walking in faith for many many years are comforted and comfortable in that exercise. Despite the fact that they may go through trials in their lives that are difficult. It's hard to loose your job, your marriage, suffer a catastrophic injury, have your child die, or your house burn down. Genuine children of God endure those kinds of things. And it's a sign of maturity that a person remains steady in their walk of faith and isn't shaken in faith by storms of misfortune. The storms are going to come anyways. They are par and parcel to the lot of humanity. That "is what it is".

Now I certainly would agree that it's a "bad sign" of "not having faith" if one assumes God is just going to tolerate their sin and never repents. I wouldn't call that "complacency" though. That would be evidence of never having been born again to begin with.