The KJVO myth...

[robycop3]

It's the KJVOs who try to make an issue of the copyrights thingie. They don't realize they're working against their own myth.

 

[David Kent]

Well, actually, there's a lot more to Jacobean/Elizabethan English than that. There are many everyday words not that were in use then, but whose meanings have changed greatly. Some examples:

TARGET - Once meant a small shield, from "targe", a large shield.

CONVERSATION - Once meant "lifestyle".

LET - Once meant "hinder" as well as "allow", depending on context.

CAREFUL - Once meant "anxious".

CHARITY - Once meant "love".

FURNITURE - once meant "a saddle".

IMAGINATION - Once meant "stubbornness".

Well, you get the picture. There are many more such words. (having the ability to learn Chaucer's English while in elementary school, so I could read his works as he had written them, I had no prob with Elizabethan English in Shakespeare, & later, in the KJV & Geneva Bible versions.)

'Let' is still used in British passports. "Her Britanic Majesty Requests and Requires that the holder is allowed to pass without Let or Hindrance." Or something like that , I don't have my passport to hand at present.

I use the KVV our Church uses the NKJV. My main objection to the NKJV is in 2 Thess 2 5. Where the word He is capitalised. This is an interpretation and a false one at that. It means that the I interpreter was a follower of the pre tribulation cult.
I believe that the NIV is a perversion of scripture.

 

[robycop3]

I agree except I'd like to ask, if I may, what's a pre-tribulation cult? What's its main belief?

 

[Oseas]

I agree except I'd like to ask, if I may, what's a pre-tribulation cult? What's its main belief?

What will be the main belief of the foolish virgins when they go to buy oil of the sellers? And what will be the main belief of the sellers, Pastors, and Bishops, and Evangelists, among others? And what good is this multitude's belief (50%) destined to perdition forever and ever? Remember: the eternal damnation was predetermined to start at such a time (the time arrived), but it will never end, yes, eternal damnation begins and will never end, it means they all are lost forever and ever.

For those who do not know what heaven(s) is/are, and confound them with its materialist interpretation as being "sky", the question is:

What does the prophecy say? 2 Peter 3:v.7 - The heavens (the first two heavens/celestial places in Christ-Ephesians 1:v.3-the Old and New Testaments), and the earth (the clay, the dry land-Israel), WHICH ARE NOW, by the same Word (Word of GOD- the Word is GOD) are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment-Romans 2:v.1 to 16* among others- and perdition of ungodly men.(the Lord's Day is the seventh and last Day-this Day just arrived-or seventh and last millennium, this millennium just arrived).

That said, get ready

Romans 2:v.1 to 16* - the righteous Judgment of Jews and Gentiles

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[Bob_1000]

I notice one "Bible Highlighter" tried to defend the KJVO myth with some 40-yr. old stuff that's been long-refuted.

Does he, or any other KJVO have anything new ? Far as I'm concerned, the KJVO myth is just that-a MAN-MADE MYTH -& is phony as a Ford Corvette!

One question for KJVOs-

WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR THE KJVO MYTH ?
Without Scriptural support, no doctrine of faith/worship can be true.

I'm asking RESPECTFULLY; no flaming or word war intended. I just want to see some ACTUAL JUSTIFICATION for the KJVO myth.

Here are a few verses to support a perfect bible exists. It's up to the individual to figure out which bible is perfect.

Psa 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God preserves his word forever to protect us from those that speak against us.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL SCRIPTURE, whether original writings or translations is given to us by INSPIRATION of God.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

God preserves his word forever and it is by that word that the gospel is preached.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Here are a few verses to support a perfect bible exists. It's up to the individual to figure out which bible is perfect.

Still using the Greek on my end!

 

[Bob_1000]

Still using the Greek on my end!

Which manuscript line do you use?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Which manuscript line do you use?

The official text for the Greek Orthodox church is the 1904 Patriarchal Text which is a Byzantine majority type. It was developed from lectionaries on Mt Athos, Constantinople, Athens and Jerusalem. The source texts range from the 9th to 16th centuries.

 

[Bob_1000]

The official text for the Greek Orthodox church is the 1904 Patriarchal Text which is a Byzantine majority type. It was developed from lectionaries on Mt Athos, Constantinople, Athens and Jerusalem. The source texts range from the 9th to 16th centuries.

I've heard of that, it's only the New Testament isn't it?

 

[robycop3]

'Let' is still used in British passports. "Her Britanic Majesty Requests and Requires that the holder is allowed to pass without Let or Hindrance." Or something like that , I don't have my passport to hand at present.

I use the KVV our Church uses the NKJV. My main objection to the NKJV is in 2 Thess 2 5. Where the word He is capitalised. This is an interpretation and a false one at that. It means that the I interpreter was a follower of the pre tribulation cult.
I believe that the NIV is a perversion of scripture.

I don't care for the NIV, either.
"Let" for 'hindrance' is used in the USA only in tennis, where a 'let ball' means the same thing in the USA or Britain. Otherwise, in the USA, 'let' means 'allow or permit'.

 

[robycop3]

What will be the main belief of the foolish virgins when they go to buy oil of the sellers? And what will be the main belief of the sellers, Pastors, and Bishops, and Evangelists, among others? And what good is this multitude's belief (50%) destined to perdition forever and ever? Remember: the eternal damnation was predetermined to start at such a time (the time arrived), but it will never end, yes, eternal damnation begins and will never end, it means they all are lost forever and ever.

For those who do not know what heaven(s) is/are, and confound them with its materialist interpretation as being "sky", the question is:

What does the prophecy say? 2 Peter 3:v.7 - The heavens (the first two heavens/celestial places in Christ-Ephesians 1:v.3-the Old and New Testaments), and the earth (the clay, the dry land-Israel), WHICH ARE NOW, by the same Word (Word of GOD- the Word is GOD) are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment-Romans 2:v.1 to 16* among others- and perdition of ungodly men.(the Lord's Day is the seventh and last Day-this Day just arrived-or seventh and last millennium, this millennium just arrived).

That said, get ready

Romans 2:v.1 to 16* - the righteous Judgment of Jews and Gentiles

1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Thanx for the article, but you still didn't answer my question:"What do you mean by 'pre-trib cult'?" There are several definitions, but I'd liketa know which one you're referring to.

 

[robycop3]

Here are a few verses to support a perfect bible exists. It's up to the individual to figure out which bible is perfect.

Psa 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God preserves his word forever to protect us from those that speak against us.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL SCRIPTURE, whether original writings or translations is given to us by INSPIRATION of God.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

God preserves his word forever and it is by that word that the gospel is preached.

The "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie' has been proven false. V7 is about PEOPLE, not God's words. V5 helps prove that. Besides, in the AV 1611, there's this footnote for the 2nd them in V. 7-"Heb. him, I. Euery one of them."

And the KJV is NOT perfect. "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a glaring error. So is "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10. There are many other goofs & booboos in it.

We have the Bible translations GOD intends for us to have.

 

[Oseas]

Here are a few verses to support a perfect bible exists. It's up to the individual to figure out which bible is perfect.

Psa 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God preserves his word forever to protect us from those that speak against us.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL SCRIPTURE, whether original writings or translations is given to us by INSPIRATION of God.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

God preserves his word forever and it is by that word that the gospel is preached.

Yeah, YOU ARE RIGHT. The Word is GOD. GOD is Spirit. GOD is light, "in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin"-1John 1:v.5-7.

Jeremiah 1:v.11-12
11 Moreover the Word of the Lord came unto me(the Word is GOD), saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.
12 Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my Word to perform it.

Why did Jeremiah see well, as said GOD to him? Now, now, Jeremiah saw well because in his vision was a rod of an almond tree. What is the significance for GOD's people today on Jeremiah's vision concerning the rod of an almond tree? The Word gives us the answer - Numbers 17:6-8 and henceforwards:

6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
7 And Moses laid up the rods before the Lord in the tabernacle of witness.
8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.

Hebrews 4:v.12-13
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we must render an account.

Ecclesiastes 12:v.10-14
10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of Truth. (GOD is Truth)
11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one Shepherd.
12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For GOD shall bring every work into Judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

The Word is GOD.

Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:v.24-25

 

[GreekOrthodox]

I've heard of that, it's only the New Testament isn't it?

Correct, and we use the Greek Septuagint as the OT.

 

[Oseas]

The "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie' has been proven false. V7 is about PEOPLE, not God's words. V5 helps prove that. Besides, in the AV 1611, there's this footnote for the 2nd them in V. 7-"Heb. him, I. Euery one of them."

And the KJV is NOT perfect. "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a glaring error. So is "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10. There are many other goofs & booboos in it.

We have the Bible translations GOD intends for us to have.

The letter kills. Who uses the letter of the Word of GOD to judge without the Spirit -GOD is Spirit- yeah, who only uses the letter of Scriptures without the Spirit is a killer, a killer of souls.
The Word is GOD. GOD the Father. Made flesh He presents Himself with the NAME of JESUS.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Hebrews 1:v.1-4

The Word is GOD, yeah, the Word is GOD. JESUS said: No MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father(GOD the Father-The Word); neither knoweth any MAN the Father(GOD the Father-the Word), save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him-> will reveal GOD-the Word <-. Matthew 11:v.27

THE WORD IS GOD

 

[Bob_1000]

The "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie' has been proven false. V7 is about PEOPLE, not God's words. V5 helps prove that. Besides, in the AV 1611, there's this footnote for the 2nd them in V. 7-"Heb. him, I. Euery one of them."

And the KJV is NOT perfect. "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a glaring error. So is "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10. There are many other goofs & booboos in it.

We have the Bible translations GOD intends for us to have.

So your trying to tell me that the HIM in verse 5 magically transforms into THEM in verse 7?

I guess your logic is - if you insert a verse in between two verses that means you can change the context of the passage from HIM to THEM. Is this your reasoning?

Psa 12:5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

 

[Bob_1000]

Correct, and we use the Greek Septuagint as the OT.

Ok, that's good that both testaments are in the same language.

 

[David Kent]

I agree except I'd like to ask, if I may, what's a pre-tribulation cult? What's its main belief?

The pretribulation rapture teaching, invented by Edward Irving in 1825. Irving was a charismatic was excommunicated from the Scottish church for heresy because of his teaching that Crist had propensity to sin, and he also, according to one of his ex followers taught that Christians have actual righteousness rather than an imputed righteousness.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Ok, that's good that both testaments are in the same language.

We dont have an official English translation so there are a variety that get used. NKJV or RSV tends to be favored for use in services. However, the English translation of our services can be awkward or clumsy as the phrasing can be iffy at best.

For example, in the funeral service, there is a hymn called the Final Kiss that is sung repeatedly while the attendees can give a final goodbye before the coffin is closed.

One translation tries to rephrase παραδίδοται τάφῳ γάρ, καλύπτεται λίθῳ, - "taken for burial underneath stone" to this:

* Come to kiss him/her who was with us just a short time ago. * He/she is taken for burial,and lies six feet under.

IMHO its a terrible use of an idiom. This is why I support updating the English to keep up with modern usage.

 

[Bob_1000]

And the KJV is NOT perfect. "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is a glaring error. So is "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10. There are many other goofs & booboos in it.

We have the Bible translations GOD intends for us to have.

I'll tell you a couple of things that you don't know about Acts 12:4 and Easter, because had you known this you would've never said what you said about Easter. Easter is not "glaring error", it's the name God gave for the fulfillment of Passover.

Mature believers weren't celebrating Passover during that time because mature believers don't celebrate FORESHADOWS of things to come, we celebrate the real AFTER it has been fulfilled. The Passover in Act's 12:4 is the ONLY celebration of Passover mentioned anywhere in the bible AFTER Passover had been fulfilled.

Easter has nothing to do with Ishtar , fertility goddesses or anything else pagan. The word Easter comes from the German bible which used the word Oester which means - "the rising Sun".