Independently repeatable evidence that God interacts with our world

[Tinker Grey]

I wonder why you bother attacking the beliefs of others. You are a collection of molecules randomly assembled by nothing but time and chance. Your thoughts are no more correct than the thoughts of murderous Kim Jong Un, whose thoughts are also a result of evolutionary process - if indeed evolution is true. What makes your thoughts and better, any more accurate, or any more true than any other human being? That includes those you despise called Christians. The answer is simple. Nothing. If man evolved, then his every action, thought, response, emotion, imagination, creation and desire is purely a product of random processes that are hard wired into an individual. How can you say one is right and one is wrong? The very concept has no meaning. You can say that you are programmed to think a different way to others. But you have no moral right to judge anyone else.

Wrong again.

 

[RDKirk]

Try describing a sunset to a person born blind. They will hear your words but they will mean nothing. So it is to argue with an atheist. You cannot understand. What is worse, you do not want to know. God will reveal Himself to anyone who wants to know. You do not want to know.

Actually God reveals Himself to everyone. Most just don't want to see. It's more like describing a sunset to people who refuse to open their eyes.

 

[NxNW]

Who said that the Bible needs to be perfect?

I did. See above.

 

[NxNW]

When interpreted in the way it was designed to be - through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it is perfect, but man gets in the way and fouls things up.

If it was prefect, it couldn't be misinterpreted.

 

[NxNW]

Before the incarnation, during His time as the messiah, or after the resurrection in heaven?

The first two. (Did it change? If so, why?)

I assumed the universe was a supernatural construct. I do not believe there exists anything that could be called "natural".

I think you need to investigate the definitions of those words.

How about I ask you a question.

How many galaxies are there in the universe? Will we ever know?[/QUOTE

I don't know, but quite a few. Are you saying large numbers are evidence of God?

There is a large number of Doritos too.

 

[NxNW]

Actually God reveals Himself to everyone.

Saying something doesn't make it true.

 

[SkyWriting]

If the Bible was the word of God, it would be perfect, and therefore perfectly understood and perfectly agreed upon and perfectly substantiated.

Or perhaps it was written by men who loved God, rather than God with a glowing printing press.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Actually God reveals Himself to everyone. Most just don't want to see. It's more like describing a sunset to people who refuse to open their eyes.

Yeah, no. As they say.

2 Corinthians 4:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

 

[Aussie Pete]

Wrong again.

Wow. A stunning rebuttal of my argument. I don't think.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

When interpreted in the way it was designed to be - through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it is perfect, but man gets in the way and fouls things up.

Bad design - or has the Holy Spirit retired? Either way, it would all be foreseeable to an omniscient entity, so it looks like incompetence.

 

[RDKirk]

Yeah, no. As they say.

2 Corinthians 4:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

As it's also said:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. -- Romans 1

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Not at all. Most people--including Christians--are going to pray to satisfy their own desires (God doesn't necessarily need most people's sicknesses healed). Those prayers will be "answered" according to chance like everyone else's.

I suspect the percentage of prayers by Christians actually in line with God's will is quite small, and probably not statistically significant.

i.e. praying has 0 discernable effect on reality.

Surely, you see your explanation here is a complete cop out? If you pray and it works it's a miracle! If you pray and it doesn't work you aren't doing it right or god said "no". The thing is, there's no difference between praying to a jug of milk for healing and praying to your god for that same healing. In essence your god is no more powerful or influential than a jug of milk or any number of other imaginary things.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Yeah, no. As they say.

2 Corinthians 4:4
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

As it's also said:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. -- Romans 1

And then there's this. :0) Seems like you guys need to have a sidebar, then comeback and let us atheists know what you've agreed your god is actually capable and willing to do.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If it was prefect, it couldn't be misinterpreted.

It is perfect, we are not.

Satan using it to tempt Jesus is a classic case.

A good Word misinterpreted and applied to deceive.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Bad design - or has the Holy Spirit retired? Either way, it would all be foreseeable to an omniscient entity, so it looks like incompetence.

Not at all, but just corrupt, cursed humanity refusing to respond to His Word in His way.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Not at all, but just corrupt, cursed humanity refusing to respond to His Word in His way.

You don't have to be omniscient to predict that would happen, especially when the means chosen to propagate the word is so open to (mis)interpretation. The story is supposed to be that God created man and knew exactly what He was doing.

If a designer deliberately designs a car with enough free play in the steering that it has a good chance of crashing as a result, and she knows this because she's run simulations, then when it inevitably crashes, she has no-one to blame but herself. To blame the car is dishonest at best.

 

[Aussie Pete]

And then there's this. :0) Seems like you guys need to have a sidebar, then comeback and let us atheists know what you've agreed your god is actually capable and willing to do.

No point. Atheists generally have no interest in truth and reality. They start with an unproveable position themselves and then demand Christians prove that they are wrong. No amount of evidence suffices. Even in a court of law, if there is enough circumstantial evidence, a conviction can be secured. But the atheist rejects everything that does not fit their world view. That's their choice.

 

[Tinker Grey]

No point. Atheists generally have no interest in truth and reality. They start with an unproveable position themselves and then demand Christians prove that they are wrong. No amount of evidence suffices. Even in a court of law, if there is enough circumstantial evidence, a conviction can be secured. But the atheist rejects everything that does not fit their world view. That's their choice.

Lies and irony

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

No point. Atheists generally have no interest in truth and reality. They start with an unproveable position themselves and then demand Christians prove that they are wrong. No amount of evidence suffices. Even in a court of law, if there is enough circumstantial evidence, a conviction can be secured. But the atheist rejects everything that does not fit their world view. That's their choice.

You sure do know a lot about atheists. It's too bad you don't seem to have that same level of knowledge about your own beliefs. Have you and RDKirk had that sidebar yet? Along with the millions of other Christians who believe something different still?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Or...God is only interested in people who accept a particular kind of evidence. The acceptance of that type of evidence is a filter.

This is the same as God does not want me to know He exists. He made me the way I am knowing I would not be able to believe on the evidence presented so He must not want me to know He exists.